Doc Holliday
Oct 21 2009, 12:52 PM
Welcome to the Communication Channel of the Zoner Alliance! The rules are simple:
-If you're not a member of the Alliance, don't post here without an invite and introduction. You know who you are and who you aren't!
-NO HACKING!! The Channel is encrypted!
-NO WHINING!
-All sidearms are checked at the door...NO EXCEPTIONS!!
-Keep it clean and if you must, take it outside!
-Take your shoes off as the carpets in the hall are new!
-Your Mom doesn't work here so pick after yourself!
-This isn't a public announcement area. Discuss issues! No personal or public announcements!
And this is the Zoner Alliance rules for all to know:
QUOTE
The factions of the Temporary Autonomous Zoners (TAZ), the Zoners Trading Consortium (ZTC) and the Omicron Supply Industries (OSI) announce hereby the formation of the Zoner Alliance. The Zoner Alliance will be the main responsible body managing all negotiations and trade agreements with factions and houses, outside of the alliance, which will affect all members. Individual agreements affecting only one faction or group can be handled by that respective faction or group. Any Zoner faction or independent Zoner can join the ZA. Independents are asked by this announcement to form a group called the Zoner Union of Independents (ZUI) and to appoint one of their members as representative.
Here is how the ZA will function:
The item that comes before the ZA will be placed before the representatives of each member group who will then have to set an amount of time to debate the matter in each group. Then each group will come to the recommendation how their representative has to vote on their behalf. Finally, all representatives will come together again and make a quick discussion by casting their vote for their groups. In the interest of speed, scenarios could be discussed before hand so no discussions would be needed just voting by the representatives. Nevertheless each group is responsible to find its own modus operandi to achieve best results.
A) Structure of the Zoner Alliance
1. Body Member of the Zoner Alliance: Group
* Each member - a group - makes its decisions for itself.
* Once a decision has been made the faction can decide whether to try encompassing equal bodies into the motion or project, or not.
* Scope of responsibility: Every issue which is not concerning general Zoner issues or including unclaimed Zoner spaces.
* Each faction is asked to implement a kind of democracy, visible or not, to prevent the development of totalitarian hierarchies.
* Members of any faction cannot have political rights or influence in more than one faction.
2. Zoner Alliance Body: Alliance Committee (AC)
* Allowed groups are either the officially registered Zoner factions, the ZUI, or unregistered Zoner groups operating as clans.
* Voting: Each body member has one seat. Each seat has one vote. The registered factions and the ZUI have the ability to cast a veto.
* Scope of responsibility: Global Zoner issues, policies, relations.
* Security Issues: The Alliance Committee will coordinate with each member the deployment of security and defense forces. Each member will be assigned to an area of responsibility, if available and possible.
3. Membership
New groups can apply for membership and then must be approved by a majority vote by the Alliance Committee. New Independents must be accepted by the ZUI for membership. Zoner clans must have at least 6 members to be considered, with less than 6 members they apply to the ZUI and work within that member body until such a time as they have the required members count.
Alliance members can be dismissed from the ZA by the complementary remainder of AC representatives voting unanimously. Individual Zoners can be removed by the ZUI itself or by a majority votes in the Alliance Committee.
4. Membership Responsibility
All members have chosen to become part of the ZA. Each individual of each member is required to participate and assist their representative by voting, in a manner that will put their best interests forward. Each representative is charged with the responsibility of voting, in the manner that best suite the interests of his or her group. The Alliance Committee is in charge of forwarding the ideal and morals of the ZA and Zoners as a whole.
5. Nonmembers
Nonmembers are not held to any treaty, deal or policy that is put forth by the ZA. Nonmembers are also not going to receive any protection if they violate any treaties or agreements or break any policies put forth by the ZA. Nor will they receive any protections by the ZA security forces if they are found breaking ZA policies, treaties or trade agreements.
B) Decision Making and Voting
1. Each faction group is charged with determining how they will choose and direct their representative. The representatives will then come together and lay forth the concerns or points brought to them by their group. Discussions will be limited to 48 hours and Alliance Committee deliberations will be limited to 48hours, followed by a vote. If a specific discussion cannot be met within the time limit, the Alliance Committee can approve an extension on the time for deliberations so the matter can be resolved properly.
1.1. Treaties and Trade Agreements
The Alliance Committee will appoint one person to be the negotiator for each treaty or trade agreement talk. The negotiator does not have to be a member of the Alliance Committee. Once the negotiator is chosen, they will be the only one allowed to conduct the talks. The Alliance Committee can remove a negotiator by a majority vote, or assign additional envoys to assist. Members agree not to break into or interrupt any talks being performed by the negotiator.
1.2. Foreign Contacts
If any Non-Zoner faction contacts the ZA the according member must inform the Alliance Committee about this contact when common Zoner issues, policies or treaties are concerned. An Alliance Committee representative or an assigned envoy will step into contact the Outside faction / Agency then regarding their request, and present it to the ZA with any recommendations afterward allowing the members to enter their processes of decision making.
1.3. Policies
Any member can bring up ideas for new policies. The Alliance Committee will then decide if the idea merits discussion. If the majority of the Alliance Committee agrees then it will be released to the member groups for discussion.
2. Voting will be handled in the open for all members to see. Once cast votes are final. Alliance Committee members can not abstain from votes. The Alliance Committee will then collect all votes and to publish each in public in one post including a final statement addressing possible consequences.
2.1. Proxies
In the case of absences of representatives during a vote, the Alliance Committee can urge the according group to select a temporary representative for that vote.
2.2 Veto power
Registered factions and the ZUI have the ability to veto any decision passed by the Alliance Committee. If an item is vetoed it will be brought back to deliberation to see if an agreement can be reached. Once deliberations are done a second vote on a resolution will be called. If the resolution is passed with no less than a 2/3 majority the Veto is over turned. If the resolution can not reach a 2/3 majority then the veto stands and the item is considered defeated.
=============================================================
The Zoner Alliance would like to extend an invitation to any Zoner who wants to participate. We would like to encourage any outside agencies who wish to conduct agreements to contact us on a diplomatic channel.
And for all of you independents seeking membership:
QUOTE
In light of the above statement, I hereby form and establish the Zoner Union of Independents, to be affiliated with the Zoner Alliance.
Announcement, Explanation, and Registry:
Our role within the ZA will be to represent the interests of Zoners who are not affiliated with a major Zoner faction yet wish to be associated with the Zoner Alliance.
Political Procedures: The representative to the Zoner Alliance shall by me at first, and I shall stay in this role until we have at least five members. The Representative shall vote according to the will of the members of the ZUI at the ZA, and must adhere to the membership requirements at all time. The Representative shall furthermore refrain from voting in ZUI votes except during recall elections, membership revocation votes, and to break ties as described below.
For subsequent elections, there shall be the following procedures:
1) A simply majority of ZUI members must vote for a recall election within 48 hours of the first call to vote. Any member may call for a recall election. Each member who votes for a recall election must nominate at least one viable successor when they vote for the recall election. The incumbent chair will automatically be entered into any recall election if he/she so chooses.
2) After 48 hours have passed, if the recall vote passes, the sitting Representative will begin taking votes. Voting will last for another 48 hours.
3) If one candidate has the votes of a simple majority of the ZUI, then he becomes the Representative immediately when the 48-hour voting period ends.
4) If one candidate does not have the simple majority of the ZUI, then a runoff election between the two most voted-for candidates will ensue for another 48 hours. If more than one candidate is tied for the second place, any candidate that has tied for second place will qualify for the runoff.
5) In the case of a runoff election, the candidate with the most votes wins. If there is a tie, the Representative shall be the candidate who is tied for the most votes who has been a continueous member of the ZUI for the longest amount of time.
6) The second place candidate shall serve as vice-Representative, and will act as Representative on a temporary basis if the Representative is unavailable for an extended period of time (>7 days).
For voting on ZA issues, the following procedures shall be adhered to:
1) The Representative will initiate a vote.
2) Members will have 48 hours to vote on the issue at hand. Members are encouraged to propose alternatives if they vote against a measure, but may not initiate a new vote at that time.
3) The option with the most votes shall decide the vote of the ZUI Representative at the ZA.
4) In the case of a tie, the Representative shall decide for himself between the options that were tied.
For voting on ZUI procedures, the following procedures shall be adhered to:
1) A member will suggest a new procedure or to edit or expunge an existing procedure, and submit it in written form to the Representative.
2) The Representative shall respond to the request within 48 hours. If the request is denied, he/she will provide the reason for the denial. If the request is approved, he/she will initiate a vote on the matter.
3) The vote shall last for 48 hours. If the measure receives a simple majority, the measure shall pass. If not, it shall not pass. In case of a tie, the Representative shall decide.
For revoking Membership, the following procedures shall be adhered to:
1) The Representative shall openly announce the individual to be removed, and why. In cases of inactivity after one month or more, the individual shall be removed automatically. If this is not the case, then proceed to step 2).
2) The Member being voted upon shall have 24 hours to provide a statement to defend himself if he so chooses; other members may argue for either side.
3) After 24 hours, the Representative shall initiate a vote.
4) After 48 hours, the Representative shall end the vote. The side with the most votes wins. If there is a tie, the individual shall remain a member.
Membership rules: Members must not have any affiliation with any faction otherwise represented in the ZA, and must not be themselves members of the Council of Zoners. Members must submit to the rules of the ZA. Members will work to maintain good relations with other Zoners and their neighbors and post in the ZUI channel at least once per month.
Membership will be granted and revoked by the Representative and the ZUI members on these and only these criteria. Members will not be removed for simply voicing an opposing opinion in a respectful and orderly manner.
Roster:
Victor Robinson, Freeport 11
To request membership, please post your name and home station below.
That should do it! OK, Folks, post away!
*opened by Dr. John Henry Holliday, 10/21/09*
SigCorps
Oct 21 2009, 01:26 PM
CommID: Samuel Nichols
OK here is our current Roster. We will do our best to keep it up to date.
Membership Roster
Zoners Trading Consortium
Temporary Autonomous Zoners Members
Omicron Supply Industries
Zoner Union of Independents
Victor Robinson - Quorg
SigCorps
Oct 22 2009, 03:36 AM
CommID: Samuel Nichols
Well as for now I am the defacto OSI rep. I am having my folks select nominees and vote...so I may be here later on or not. Anyhow, lets get those reps selected. Giving my folks till Sunday to get it done.
Also an idea to make things a bit more fair has been put on the floor, so our first item.
The motion is---
QUOTE
Factions / groups with 6-14 members will have 1 representative. (the ZUI has a minimum of 1 representative)
15-24 members are allowed 2 representatives.
25-35 members are allowed 3 representatives.
The maximum number of representatives is 3.
Vetoes- Replacing the 2/3 majority of representatives to overturn a veto, the vote will be taken by all the members and will require 2/3 of the majority to overturn.
This give those with the most members more weight and more fair representation. It will also make the members more active in motion vetoes. Give them some more participation on matters
BlueSpawn
Oct 22 2009, 04:56 AM
.::Incoming Transmission::.
Message to : Whom it May Concern
Comm ID: Yev Lightwing, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Location: Freeport 15, Omicron 74
My name is Yev Lightwing, and I approve this message.
I would only say that I do not want to have a maximum placed on representatives. What if one group has 150 members? Unlikely? A slim chance but still a chance.
Reisiger
Oct 22 2009, 01:25 PM
:::: Incoming Transmission ::::
Com ID: Reisiger Duke, OSI TDC
Location: Freeport 9, Omicron Theta
To: ZA Communication Channel
Subject: Voting power of member groups
My opinion on this is simple.
One vote per group, veto for official factions and the ZUI.
If there's enough players in the ZUI to start a Zoner Clan (unofficial faction) by all means let them, they'd get a seat on the Committee that way to add in their weight.
Adding a voting mechanism wherein each member groups actively voting members have to be counted - to make sure an oversized membership roster doesn't affect the ZA - is just adding more bureaucracy to the ZA and would take away the possibility to react fast via knowing the outcome in a AC vote by majority.
As it is now - and probably will be for a while - the factions in the ZA outnumber the ZUI membership-wise, but the ZUI does get it's vote and the veto. Noone knows how things could develop, how many active pilots any member group will be able to muster.
Thus it makes far more sense to keep things as simple as possible and observe for now how the ZA's internal organisation and voting mechanisms will work.
Kind Regards
Reisiger Duke
OSI TDC
lousal
Oct 22 2009, 03:37 PM
From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
To: ZA
I would like to remind all of us on the fact that we have started to create new political structure because we wanted to simplify and also to accelerate all processes. Thus I cannot support a by amount of members weighted representation, because I do not believe that any Zoner registry, neither of the CoZ, nor of any faction, is precise enough to select the proper amount of representatives. I see this only as a further reason for more arguing.
Sincerely,
Louisa
BlueSpawn
Oct 22 2009, 03:59 PM
.::Incoming Transmission::.
Message to : Whom it May Concern
Comm ID: Yev Lightwing, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Location: Freeport 15, Omicron 74Alright, before anybody screams 'complex politics' I want to say that this is the stuff that defines the amount of freedom independent groups have. So it's rather an import deal for me:I think that we need to make some rules regarding global and local agenda items. Here are my proposals.
Local Agenda Items: - Issues pertaining to an isolated location(s). >>Example 1: Allowing Harvesters to have ownership of Primus and Gammu. >>Example 2: Treaty of Bethlehem
- Items that are business deals or deals that involve the use of currency. >>Example 1: CoZ's Order Deal. >>Example 2: The Brotherhood proposal
Fact is, even though an issue like giving ownership of Kappa planets is a big one, it's isolated. People on Gran Canaria are not affected by what happens on the other side of the world. Treaty of Bethlehem is the same. People on Freeport 11 probably don't even care what happens in the Border Worlds.
Global Agenda Items:- Zoner Alliance Policies and Rules. >>Any policy that will have an effect on the entire ZA structure.
- Zoner technology usage and abuse. >>Example 1: A Junker wants to fly an Aquilion. >Example 2: A Juggernaut pilot is under review for misconduct
- Issues that involve all Zoner stations. >>Example 1: Taking away Apocalypse's docking rights. >>Example 2: Zoner Policies regarding No-Fire Zones
Only an item that affects all Zoners in ZA should be considered global. Note, there is a difference between an issue affecting all Zoners and an issue that is proposed to all Zoners. The Brotherhood proposal was addressed to all members of CoZ, but it was a deal involving trade. Business deals may be proposed to all members of ZA, but as we all know Free Market is defined as each group chosing its own commercial path.
Global items are decided upon by the ZA Committee. Local items are decided individually by each group.
Alley.
Oct 22 2009, 06:37 PM
[.. INCOMING TRANSMISSION ..]
[.. FROM : The Noveria ..]
[.. TO : Zoner Alliance ..]
[.. SUBJECT : Greetings, Zoner Alliance ..]
*the following is a video feed*
- Kelly : Just saying hi on the channel, if you want something destroyed, leave us a message.
- ??? : Kelly... enough dead people for today... shhzzzzz.
- Kelly : I know, Queen.
- ??? : Then go pray with the othersssssss.
[.. TRANSMISSION ENDED ..]
Cross (Kuthumii)
Oct 22 2009, 11:10 PM
....::::Incoming Transmission::::.....
Comm ID: William Cross
Location: Freeport 9, Omicron Theta
....::::Message Begins::::.....
I would like to note that, each member of each faction has a vote; each member has a voice. I do not support any faction getting more than one vote in the Committee. Each member votes in their respective group. The majority rules and their Rep puts the majority's voice forward at the Committee vote. If the process becomes complex and cumbersome, it defeats the point of the Alliance. Make no mistake the ZA is a rule by majority institution; same as other Zoner bodies.
If a member feels the group he is part of does not represent him, he can form a clan with other like minded individuals and once they have sufficient numbers, apply for membership to the ZA. If he feels that he doesn't have a voice in his current group, that is not the problem of the Alliance; that is the problem of the group he resides in.
I am also of the opinion that we do not allow membership to unnamed (untagged) clans. If a group of like minded individuals wants to be part of the Alliance, they must be a group (tagged).
As I am not a Rep, I have not vote in this matter here. I will voice my vote in my organization. I am simply giving my advice.
William Cross
Captain of the Mon'Kal
....::::Message Ends::::.....
....::::End of Transmission::::.....
Quorg
Oct 23 2009, 05:25 AM
Comm ID: Victor Robinson
Don't forget, I have attempted to design the ZUI in a way that leaves membership open to any reasonable Zoner who desires to participate.
In my humble opinion, the simpler the voting, the better. One faction gets one representative. Independents get one representative.
One question I have is the issue of local decisions- which groups have control over which stations? Perhaps we should divide diplomatic authority over the foreign relations of each station among the registered Zoner factions.
-Victor Robinson
BlueSpawn
Oct 23 2009, 05:33 AM
.::Incoming Transmission::.
Message to : Whom it May Concern
Comm ID: Yev Lightwing, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Location: Freeport 15, Omicron 74
That was my original suggestion Mr.Robinson, however I am not certain if it is the right thing to do.
All Zoner bases, aside for the ones that are owned by TAZ, belong to all Zoners. Sure, we could divide responsibility (note, this is very different from control) for every station, but even that feels somewhat funny to me. I think that in terms of local issues, as I suggested, every group decides what they want to do. Take the Bretonian portion of the Bethlehem Treaty, for example.
That's a treaty that pertains largely to Freeport 1. Now let's say that OSI and ZUI support the Treaty. So they sign it. By contract, let's say that TAZ and ZTC want nothing to do with it and desire to continue to uphold the Zoner Policies without giving BFA special treatment.
So OSI and ZUI sing the Treaty, while ZTC and TAZ do not. And I really don't see anything wrong with that outcome.
Doc Holliday
Oct 23 2009, 06:45 AM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
To: Victor Robinson
My feeling on Freeport security isn't so much deciding which group controls what station. All Freeports are all of our concerns in a manner of speaking. What I do think we should consider is what bases are easiest monitored by whatever group. It may sound the same but it isn't. Bear with me and you'll see.
First up, with TAZ being based in Baffin which is close to the Taus, it is very easy for us to monitor Freeport 6 and Freeport 10.
For OSI and the Consortium, Freeport 9, Freeport 14, Freeport 5, Corfu, Lividia, Sparta and Corinth are right in their back yard.
Now, where I told you to bear with me. As we folks in TAZ do have interest and routes far from Baffin, we do keep patrols in the Omicrons and Omegas as well as a ship in Kepler at Ames Research. Catch my drift?
On the subject of voting. I think that each faction should have 1 vote. That was how the CoZ was originally designed.
-Doc
lousal
Oct 23 2009, 08:03 AM
From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
I am checking in now as representative of the ZTC. Let us start with the first item at hand please:
Shall the seats of the Alliance Committee be determined by a proportional mapping of body members to their representatives?
0-5 members makes no seat
6-14 members makes to 1 seat
15-24 members makes 2 seats
35-~ members makes 3 seats
The voting is is opened. I will ask the ZTC now.
Quorg
Oct 23 2009, 03:21 PM
Comm ID: Victor Robinson
I will set aside my own personal opinions and wait for more people to join the ZUI before I place a vote on this one.
-Victor Robinson
lousal
Oct 25 2009, 05:22 PM
From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
48 hours have passed since the vote on
Shall the seats of the Alliance Committee be determined by a proportional mapping of body members to their representatives?
had been opened. 8 out of 11 members have voted. The result:
0 members voted for this motion
7 members voted against this motion
1 member abstained
The ZTC has voted against this motion.
Reisiger
Oct 28 2009, 11:56 AM
QUOTE(lousal @ Oct 23 2009, 09:03 AM)

From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
I am checking in now as representative of the ZTC. Let us start with the first item at hand please:
Shall the seats of the Alliance Committee be determined by a proportional mapping of body members to their representatives?
0-5 members makes no seat
6-14 members makes to 1 seat
15-24 members makes 2 seats
35-~ members makes 3 seats
The voting is is opened. I will ask the ZTC now.
Summary:(0/0/1) --> ZUI Abstains
(X/-/-) --> TAZ Supports the Motion
(0/7/1) --> ZTC voted against the motion
(-/X/-) --> OSI votes nay
Result:
(1/2/1) --> Motion Defeated
lousal
Oct 30 2009, 02:51 PM
From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
Subject: Motion Item 2
Dear Committee,
we have a second decision to make. Mr Lightwing proposed two scopes of responsibility for Zoner matters.
QUOTE(BlueSpawn @ Oct 22 2009, 04:59 PM)

I think that we need to make some rules regarding global and local agenda items. Here are my proposals.
Local Agenda Items: - Issues pertaining to an isolated location(s). >>Example 1: Allowing Harvesters to have ownership of Primus and Gammu. >>Example 2: Treaty of Bethlehem
- Items that are business deals or deals that involve the use of currency. >>Example 1: CoZ's Order Deal. >>Example 2: The Brotherhood proposal
Fact is, even though an issue like giving ownership of Kappa planets is a big one, it's isolated. People on Gran Canaria are not affected by what happens on the other side of the world. Treaty of Bethlehem is the same. People on Freeport 11 probably don't even care what happens in the Border Worlds.
Global Agenda Items:- Zoner Alliance Policies and Rules. >>Any policy that will have an effect on the entire ZA structure.
- Zoner technology usage and abuse. >>Example 1: A Junker wants to fly an Aquilion. >Example 2: A Juggernaut pilot is under review for misconduct
- Issues that involve all Zoner stations. >>Example 1: Taking away Apocalypse's docking rights. >>Example 2: Zoner Policies regarding No-Fire Zones
Only an item that affects all Zoners in ZA should be considered global. Note, there is a difference between an issue affecting all Zoners and an issue that is proposed to all Zoners. The Brotherhood proposal was addressed to all members of CoZ, but it was a deal involving trade. Business deals may be proposed to all members of ZA, but as we all know Free Market is defined as each group chosing its own commercial path.
Global items are decided upon by the ZA Committee. Local items are decided individually by each group.
Before putting Mr Lightwing's proposal to a vote I would like to ask you if there is something to be added or changed!?
Sincerely,
Louisa
Doc Holliday
Oct 30 2009, 07:42 PM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
Regarding the Harvesters and planets Gammu and Primus, I think we more or less as Zoners pretty much turned them over. Sam approved as did I and even Miss Silvan from the CoZ. They aren't habitable so I don't see why not. Besides Harvester 74, my experiences with the Harvesters has been largely positive.
As for NFZ policy and Bethlehem, while the CoZ is still around, it is their dealing. Sure, we could make our own policy but would it be recognized by anyone?
Technology we can enforce just by being around. The Aquilon is sold only in Baffin so we can keep a tight lid on that.
-Doc
Quorg
Nov 1 2009, 03:09 PM
Comm ID: Victor Robinson
Wait a minute now- are these the same Harvesters that not too long ago were hunting us down?
Granted, Gammu and Primus have long been acting independently, but they have thus far remained safe places for our ships to go, which is absolutely vital in a system as dangerous as Omicron Kappa.
Furthermore, we question their need to have control over planet Primus. One planet should be plenty; furthermore, while Gammu contains largely robotic pseudo-life forms that would likely be compatible with the Harvesters, subjecting the organic residents of Primus to the rule of artificial intelligence would be a travesty.
I therefore propose the following changes, if this vote is to happen at all:
1) That any agreement signed with the Harvesters includes a clause that allows us to continue docking and using whatever planet(s) they inhabit unhindered as before
2) That any agreement signed with them will guarantee that they will not proactively attack any Zoner (because of their genocidal history),
3) That we be allowed to vote on Primus and Gammu separately, or that Primus be removed from the measure altogether.
-Victor Robinson, ZUI
Doc Holliday
Nov 1 2009, 03:49 PM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
To: Victor Robinson
Yes, this is the same group of Harvesters. Giving them initial rights to Gammu and Primus have paid off already as they have been delivering food and supplies to our bases. Baffin is in very good shape in that regard right now.....thanks to those same Harvesters who once hunted us and have changed their ways.
The only exception is Harvester 74 who has gone rogue. It apparently has some issue with the L.O.S.T. Corsair group and felt attacking me "would get their attention." Whatever!
Why not give them Primus and Gammu? The first colonists to land on those planets died of excess radiation poisoning. For humans, those planets are uninhabitable. Land on them if you want but don't stay too long.
(//read the info card)
Something to consider, Mr. Robinson, when I gave my initial approval as a faction leader, I did so under the condition that one of our own could go there. [TAZ]Peregrine IS an AI Harvester cruiser, a cruiser that won't bother you unless you bother it.....that includes taking a pot shot as a joke as one poor soul found out. It is loyal to TAZ and does research for us.
-Doc
Quorg
Nov 1 2009, 04:12 PM
Comm ID: Victor Robinson
Very well; I'm glad to hear that things have gotten better between them and us. Perhaps we should add a requirement that their shipments to our base continue.
Regarding Planet Primus, it is indeed inhabitable by humans; it was just cut off from the outside world for some time and the genetic drift of the population led them on a different evolutionary path than we took.
Simply handing them over to a flock of toasters, however, is morally questionable at best.
-Victor Robinson
Doc Holliday
Nov 1 2009, 04:23 PM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
To: Victor Robinson
If Primus is habitable, I still question how habitable. Have you seen what it's current population looks like? Still, I don't land on them and all I use the planets for are navigational aids. If giving up those planets, planets we really don't use, makes peace with the Harvesters, I don't really see the problem. It also stopped the former Apocalypse from using Gammu as a base of operation much to the satisfaction of damn near everyone.
-Doc
BlueSpawn
Nov 2 2009, 07:35 PM
.::Incoming Transmission::.
Message to : Whom it May Concern
Comm ID: Yev Lightwing, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Location: Freeport 15, Omicron 74
After the voting results are in, I am resigning from this organization. There is nothing wrong with ZA itself -- is in fact the best thing that has happened since the Zoner Council. However, I have just discovered that I am terribly allergic to pompous bigots who believe that they are somehow better than others and are overall fantastic at finding flaws within people that they otherwise cannot find in themselves.
Well, there goes my big mouth again. I better git, lads. Cheers.
Reisiger
Nov 2 2009, 10:22 PM
QUOTE(lousal @ Oct 30 2009, 03:51 PM)

From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
Subject: Motion Item 2
Dear Committee,
we have a second decision to make. Mr Lightwing proposed two scopes of responsibility for Zoner matters.
Before putting Mr Lightwing's proposal to a vote I would like to ask you if there is something to be added or changed!?
Sincerely,
Louisa
:::: Incoming Transmission ::::
Com ID: Reisiger Duke, OSI TDC
Location: Freeport 9, Omicron Theta
To: ZA
Subject: ZA Motion
:::: Message Begins ::::
Evening everyone.
Reading through the motion... I sort of have to disagree on the examples provided for local items, as any change in the status of a Freeport - or planet Gammu - does affect any and all Zoners. Maybe not the day the item is decided, but on a later day they could happen to pass by that location.
A 'local item' is in my regard something only concerning one ZA member group alone - or several incase they choose to get involved into i.e. a business deal. Such an item wouldn't even get to be placed before the Alliance Committee.
Anything else touches all ZA member groups, and possibly every other Zoner in Sirius.
I do not see any gain from creating this definition as it is worded now, rather a mess getting created from arguments about whom an item concerns and whom not, following the logic applied in the samples.
Therefore I suggest the following separation to be used:
The ZA distinguishes items concerning it's member groups, the ZA as a whole or all Zoners in Sirius according to the following definitions:- Local Items:
- A local item only concerns one or more ZA member groups and is thus not brought before the AC, unless an involved ZA member group wishes to have the AC decide upon it.
- ZA Items:
- A ZA Item touches all ZA member groups interests and is therefore brought before the AC to be voted upon.
- Global Items:
- A Global Item has an influence on all Zoners in Sirius or concerns the use of zoner technology and is thus brought before the AC to be voted upon.
Kind Regards
Reisiger Duke
Dancing Lady
Nov 2 2009, 10:31 PM
From: Commander Sebastien LaHoue of the Freeport 18
To: Zoner Alliance
My greetings to you, Zoner Alliance.
Since I am afraid my request to the Council of Zoner will be ignored, I shall ask the following to you instead:
I have recently ordered the construction of a Juggernaut class vessel in Lividia shipyard, which would be used as a sort of Trade Outpost within the Sigmas. We have presented ourselves to the population of the Sigmas, and even though we didn't have the warmest of Welcomes, I believe we'll be one day accepted there as a replacement of the old Freeport 7. Of course, this will take time and lots of efforts, but I already believe that we attract our own sort of costumers, namely Independent Traders, Freelancers, Zoners, GMG and possibly Junkers nearby. To... ''officialize'' our status as a Freeport, I would ask you, Zoner Alliance, the possibility of instoring a No Fire Zone at one point in the vicinity of the Freeport 18. Not immediatly, as it seems like Cryer and Samura takes it as an insult, but we will use in the mean time our own No Fire Zone clauses that are very similar to yours and that is not endorsed by the ZA but by myself
Also, As Freeport 18 wishes to give to the population nearby a costumised service, we would ask as less influence as possible from the Alliance in our diplomacy.
This is all for now, I believe. I hope that our relationship will be a good one, Zoner Alliance.
Commander Sebastien LaHoue of the Freeport 18.
lousal
Nov 2 2009, 11:36 PM
From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
To: Zoner Alliance Committee
Subject: Motion No. 2
Mr. Duke,
I like your amendments. If Dr. Holliday agrees with them we could put them to a vote.
Sincerly,
Louisa
Doc Holliday
Nov 3 2009, 01:56 AM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
To: ZA
I too like these revisions. They seem simpler to understand yet get to the point. Has OSI commented on this?
-Doc
lousal
Nov 3 2009, 08:09 AM
From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
To: Commander Sebastien LaHoue
Subject: Zoner Alliance
Commander LaHoue,
I think that we are all pleased by the purpose you have given to one of our beloved Juggernauts. As a Mobile Freeport it will serve all Zoners very well, although I have to admit that its current deployment to Sigma 17 might irritate Samura Industries along with the Kusari Empire. This matter could prove to be delicate if pursued in a wrong way. Therefore I suggest to discuss your intentions with the permanently residing parties in Sigma 17, if not done already, to make sure that your deployment will not be regarded as an hostile act.
Mr. Victor Robinson told me that you can
apply for membership in the ZUI here. Please note that the
Zoner Alliance is endorsing this assembly of independent Zoners.
Sincerely,
Louisa
Doc Holliday
Nov 3 2009, 10:25 PM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
To: All
I made an edit on the introductory post in this thread. Victor, if you want something fixed in the edit for the ZUI, let me know via private transmission.
That applies for you, Sam and Lou, if you have any concerns with the ZA rules.
-Doc
SigCorps
Nov 4 2009, 04:06 PM
CommID: Samuel Nichols
QUOTE(Reisiger @ Nov 2 2009, 01:22 PM)

The ZA distinguishes items concerning it's member groups, the ZA as a whole or all Zoners in Sirius according to the following definitions:- Local Items:
- A local item only concerns one or more ZA member groups and is thus not brought before the AC, unless an involved ZA member group wishes to have the AC decide upon it.
- ZA Items:
- A ZA Item touches all ZA member groups interests and is therefore brought before the AC to be voted upon.
- Global Items:
- A Global Item has an influence on all Zoners in Sirius or concerns the use of zoner technology and is thus brought before the AC to be voted upon.
Kind Regards
Reisiger Duke
I like it. The 3 divisions works well.
**End of Transmission**
lousal
Nov 5 2009, 01:59 AM
From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
Let us call for a vote then. I will ask the ZTC members for a decision now. According to the ZA rules this vote will be open for the next two days.
Sincerely,
Louisa
Doc Holliday
Nov 23 2009, 09:27 PM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
I don't need to tell everyone about the recent actions of Saronsen "Paradise." I don't need to tell you all that Miss Silvan is trying to push everyone aside to deal with him herself even though the actions of one Zoner affects us all. I see she has placed Saronsen on probation for 4 weeks.
Well, I've upped the ante on that and barred the Paradise from entering Baffin.
-Doc
Cross (Kuthumii)
Nov 23 2009, 09:35 PM
CommID: William Cross
Noted Doc. As for this Security Council Silvan has suggested; the fact that she refuses to let anyone other than herself punish Saronsen proves how corrupt she is. The SHIZL handed these matters and was made up of a group of people, not one person. Claiming that she didn't need the approval of the Council she dissolved the SHIZL as you all know. As much as I want to repair the rift between our people, I cannot in good faith approve of any measure that has us working with the Council while Silvan is chairperson. She is corrupt and power hungry. I left House space to get away from people like her. I know a number of Council members feel she has over stepped her bounds, I have no idea why they haven't removed her yet.
BlueSpawn
Nov 23 2009, 10:31 PM
.::Incoming Transmission::.
Message to : Whom it May Concern
Comm ID: Yev Lightwing, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Location: Freeport 15, Omicron 74On that note, I received a message from Aurelia sometime today. She wanted me to forward this to the rest of the Zoner Alliance.
QUOTE
Incoming Transmission
Comm ID: Aurelia SilvanThe Security Committee will consist of eleven members. The Chairperson and Vice Chairperson will both be members of the Security Committee. The major organization leaders, heads of the Alliance, will also be granted a free seat to place a delegate of their choice in. The other six members will be Chair-nominated, Committee-nominated, or self-nominated. It will be required that they get a majority 'yes' vote from the Council and Alliance before they can take one of the seats on the Security Committee, regardless of the manner in which they are nominated. Zoners belonging to neither organization require a yes vote by both the Council and the Alliance to be granted a seat. The Security Committee members are
not required to be members of the Council of Zoners. They can be from either the Council of Zoners, Zoner Alliance, or neither group. Additional Security Committee seats may be added to account for faction leaders, though they will also have to get a majority 'yes' vote from whichever organization they belong to (Council/Alliance) to be granted a seat.
Security Committee decisions may be overridden by an 80% vote for the overturn by either the Council or Alliance, or a 70% vote from both. A motion to remove a Security Committee delegate must also get a 75% vote towards the removal by either the Council or Alliance, depending which organization they belong to, or a 75% vote by both if the Security Committee Delegate belongs to neither organization.
The Security Committee has four duties;
- First, the Security Committee will be responsible for deciding what Zoners to send as representatives or diplomats to specific negotiations. For example, if the Outcasts were to open a large-scale negotiation, the Security Committee would decide who to send as our representative to discuss it with them. - This is so that the decision is not given exclusively to the Chairperson, but rather to a group so that favoritism does not have an impact. Note: This duty is for representatives of the Council of Zoner and the entire Zoner Community only. The Alliance will select representatives via their own methods when dealing with issues that deal with them alone.
- Second, the Security Committee will regulate the use of Zoner equipment and ships by non-Zoners. - This is the original duty the SHIZL was created for.
- Third, the Security Committee will handle the management of misbehaving Zoners. The Security Committee can not move to banish a Zoner from the community, not one organization without a vote by both of the organizations first. - This was also a duty of the SHIZL. Banishment requires a majority 'yes' vote so that the Security Committee can not abuse it as a punishment.
- Fourth, the Security Committee will participate, and in some cases lead, efforts that benefit fellow Zoners. This is focused on incidents of hostility from ships from other factions against Zoners or Zoner stations, as well as helping new Zoners get situated in the Zoner environment. Teaching them 'the ropes.' - This is more of a humanitarian responsibility than a duty. The members of the Security Committee are encouraged to act as mentors to people who have recently joined the Zoners, as well as act in the defense of other Zoners. This will also include managing the hostiles list of people who have harmed the Zoners.
These are not set in stone, this is just a proposal, and is being offered for review and tweaking - fixing. Eventually it will be put to a vote, but I want to give ample time for discussion and clarification and fixing.
-Aurelia Silvan
End Transmission
To summarize the above:
--SC will have 11 seats total
--2 seats from Council of Zoners, 1 seat per faction, 6 others seats from anywhere (CoZ, ZA, another Zoner organization, or completely Indie)
--The 6 other seats can be nominated by anyone but have to be voted by ZA and CoZ --one total cumulative vote from ZA and one total cumulative vote from CoZ. For example, CoZ decides via popular vote. ZA decides via vote from each representative, which then acumulates to a "yes" or "no." So you get one result from CoZ and one result from ZA. If both results are "yes," the person is elected.I say go for it because it's a pretty good deal, in my opinion. 2 seats from CoZ and 1 seat per faction is exactly how SHIZL used to run. The additional 6 seats provide for nice balance because anybody from anywhere will be able to join (given that they gather enough votes). Because our current reps are essentially the leaders of each faction, the transition should be a smooth one. CoZ and ZA will still remain as separate entities and conduct their own diplomacy, with the Security Committee performing all of the global aspects of politics.
--Yev Lightwing
SigCorps
Nov 24 2009, 08:47 AM
CommID: Samuel Nichols
Well I can not see much fault with that proposal at first blush. It is a good starting point for us and the COZ to try to work together.
Doc Holliday
Nov 24 2009, 09:53 AM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
To: ZA
First of all, congrats to the ZTC on their new ownership of Omicron 74. It's been a long time coming. Next time I'm out there, the drinks are on me.
Now, for this.....proposal by the CoZ. I'm skeptical. Who will chair it? Will their be a chair? I have deeper concerns but I would rather discuss them in private.
-Doc
Cross (Kuthumii)
Nov 24 2009, 02:08 PM
CommID: William Cross
Are we going to hold off on the Item 2: Definition of Local / Global Agenda Items until after we discuss and vote on this proposal sent to us by the CoZ? If we joing this Security thing, then would we even need the Global Items part of this item?
BlueSpawn
Nov 24 2009, 07:19 PM
.::Incoming Transmission::.
Message to : Whom it May Concern
Comm ID: Yev Lightwing, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Location: Freeport 15, Omicron 74
Doc Holliday: In reading the proposal multiple times, I cannot see that there is anything talking about the Security Committee having a Chairman to begin with. I assume that everybody will have an even amount of power and with 11 members, we will not be needing a Chairman to break ties. Unless of course I'm mistaken and some part of the proposal hasn't been sent to us.
William Cross: If the Security Committee is passed, the only thing we will need ZA Committee for is to regulate ZA policies. I see this as a good thing because we will be limiting the amount of beauracracy all across the Zoner Communities. Less is more.
We can simply transfer our ZA reps to SC, so that portion of ZA Committee will still be preserved.
lousal
Nov 24 2009, 11:02 PM
From: Louisa Salome, (]c[)
Subject: Assemblies, Alliances, Groups, Gatherings, Commitees, Councils, ... Zoners in Heaps
Ah, yes ...
There is it again - the inevitable urge to create another group. How nice, but I am feeling cozy, we Zoners are separatists by nature, aren't we?
The proposal of Aurelia Silvan is very welcomed indeed. I do not object this attempt to find a way for a cooperation with the Council of Zoners finally, not in the slightst, and if our own proposal for independent Zoners has failed to earn enough support by the Council members, so be it this way then. Even this would not concern me longer than a minute. But if we are about to create just another group among groups for the communication between groups, as if we were bored House politicians, I am definitely against it. Is anybody currently thinking about the amount of bureaucracy this will generate, the TAZ, the OSI, the CoZ, the ZUI, the ZTC, the AC, the SC? Do your really think that Rheinland Citizens are happy? Ah, nevermind ...
We have left the Council of Zoners because it has grown beyond any managable siz, recognizing that it has become an uncotrollable beast, while we did not want to overpower independent Zoners by the majority of faction seats out of mere impatience just to keep political processes simple. We have learned that smaller groups are politically more agile as we had to learn too that not all Zoners are caring for the cocerns of other Zoners. The latter is very zonerish, right? What we really need is a feasible and minimal solution to form a flat hierarchy, and while one great assembly hosting all Zoners is uncontrollable, a structure having committees of groups communicating with other committees of other groups is uncontrollable too. We have strongly affiliated Zoners joined the factions, and we have those Zoners who like to operate on their own belonging to the Zoner Independents. That makes two political levels, one for the individual, and a second for the group they are belonging to, and in order to avoid cumbersome political processes draining our energies we need for more important matters we need only one committee serving as a connection between all groups, thus representing all Zoners.
Aurelia has created a counter-proposal to our Alliance Committee, and I am fine with it to call it Security Council, Security Committee, or whatever. The Zoner Alliance would have a Security Committee instead of the Alliance Committee then, why not? We could even call it Big Pink Thinky, it does not matter. It is just feasible to have this last instance responsible for global Zoners matters.
What I cannot agree with are some details concerning seat numbers. Not that I would want to squeeze anybody out who is feeling appointed to participate in tiresome discussions and permanent proxying of opinions not being their own, but it has to stay minimal, and it has to stay managable. Everything else reminds me of some weird work-creation program of a bored House administration mainly invented for self-preservation of this administration.
Therefore I suggest to discuss the details with Aurelia in a more private atmosphere, and after coming to an agreement we could put this proposal in our groups to a vote to pass it finally.
Sincerely,
Louisa
BlueSpawn
Nov 25 2009, 12:27 AM
.::Incoming Transmission::.
Message to : Whom it May Concern
Comm ID: Yev Lightwing, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Location: Freeport 15, Omicron 74
Fair points.
Aurelia told me via private comms that her goal behind number 11 was to ofset the 5 non-elected seats (CoZ + ZA reps) with 6 elected seats. Idea being it being that non-elected members do not outnumber elected members.
But I think that while the motion is noble, we end up with too many representatives. I would suggest to lower the number from 11 to 7.
That would be: CoZ Chairman & Vice-Chairman, 3 faction members, 2 other members.
7 reps total. That's two more than what we had in SHIZL, which in my opinion is plenty. 9 is as far as I would go.
Doc Holliday
Nov 25 2009, 03:37 AM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
To: ZA
The SHIZL had 5, which was plenty. The way I see it, each faction should have a rep to include the ONE from the CoZ. That would make four. We don't need to stack it with more than one per faction. I would like to keep this at an odd number of reps. Why? If we vote, there would be no ties. So, the fifth seat I would make as a seat for and independent Zoner not affiliated with the CoZ or any faction.
I agree with Ms. Salome, smaller groups are easier to work with. IF we decide not to do this, we have enough Zoners around Sirius to deal with offenders. Baffin is the the sole seller of the Aquilon and we keep a tight lid on them there. The ZTC has jurisdiction over the sale of the Jinkusu and as they are close to Theta, can monitor Fearless and Corvo sales along with the CoZ. Other ships are pretty much up for public sale.
I still ask the question of who would be spokesman and how it would be decided. I left the CoZ and the Chair after all the bickering got out of hand and egos flared. I have no desire to fall back into that mode again.
XTriton
Nov 25 2009, 06:30 AM
QUOTE(Doc Holliday @ Nov 25 2009, 01:07 PM)

I left the CoZ and the Chair after all the bickering got out of hand and egos flared. I have no desire to fall back into that mode again.
Comm ID: Xavier Triton
To: All ZA
We should keep this in mind when we consider agreements with the CoZ. How far can this go until it may be a risk of us being pulled into that situation again?. Call me paranoid, but I just dont want that for us on any level.
SigCorps
Nov 25 2009, 08:20 AM
CommID: Samuel Nichols
Bah. While I said that at first blush it seemed a good idea, I would like to recant that. At this point the last thing I need or want is another council, committee or such to have to deal with. We run our own affairs, lets leave it at that.
Dragonlancer
Nov 25 2009, 08:50 AM
CommID: John Bess, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Samuel and Xavier let's have some drinks at Freeport 15 you got exactly expressed my thoughts.
Hey Doc why don't you just join us?
You are doing a jolly good job a diplomanic but no bloody blue blob cares about any arguing fools who cannot agree on the colour of their cockpit tints...
Doc Holliday
Nov 25 2009, 09:25 AM
Comm ID: [TAZ]Doc Holliday
To: John Bess
I'll be out to oversee some mods on the new Med Force at Lividia so I'll take you up on the drink.
Sam, I do think something needs to be done to deal with offenders but I'm not so sure that the way being proposed is the way to do it. I think with TAZ owning Baffin and thus controlling the Aquilon access while ZTC owning Omicron 74 and controlling Jinkusu access, it's a good example of how local control and authority should be implemented.
Sam, I remember you saying that OSI wanted a base of operation. Go after Corfu and you would control the Corvo and Fearless sales. The CoZ can maintain jurisdiction of Freeport ship sales as far as I'm concerned around Sirius.
-Doc
SigCorps
Nov 26 2009, 09:05 PM
CommID: Samuel Nichols
To: The Zoner Alliance
Effective immediately OSI is removing itself from the ZA. We will be handling all our own business and no longer want to be affiliated with any other groups.
**End of Message**
BlueSpawn
Nov 27 2009, 04:26 AM
.::Incoming Transmission::.
Message to : Whom it May Concern
Comm ID: Yev Lightwing, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Location: Freeport 15, Omicron 74
The entire point of ZA is to allow factions to conduct their own business while keeping friendship in mind.
If you're pulling OSI out due to the Security Committee proposal, I'm afraid I don't see the issue. It is in fact going to be LESS powerful than SHIZL was, which went so far as to have its members compose Global Policies for all Zoners. All SC will do is regulate Zoner tech abuse and tech theft. William's counter proposal is bloody good and most importantly, simple.
The only difference you'll be making by leaving ZA is creating tensions between factions. ZA already gives factions maximum independence while providing support.
You keep accusing me of having a big mouth and speaking on behalf of others while not allowing them to speak for themselves. Well I want to know what other OSI members think. Last I looked, William Cross was still participating in ZA discussions.
SigCorps
Nov 27 2009, 08:28 AM
CommID: Samuel Nichols
To: The Zoner Alliance
As the sole CEO of OSI I can and have removed OSI from the ZA. No other member of OSI can speak on behave of OSI. If some of my folks wish to continue working with the ZA, they will do so as independents representing themselves only. That I can not, nor will not prevent. I am removing OSI from all political circles as I am sick of them. Also while I do appreciate the offer of FP15, at this time I must pass on it.
**End of transmission**
Cross (Kuthumii)
Dec 1 2009, 11:44 PM
CommID: Victor Cross
With recent events I'd like to thank all those that helped out. I don't know if words can express my gratitude to you, Holliday, for saving the life of my brother. This was a sad day for all Zoners and I hope we recover, nah, I know we will recover. I'd also like to offer any member of you a 5mil bounty in you can manage to destroy this scums gunboat. (//OOC: Using a gunboat or below.)
On to business though; I was looking over my brothers counter-proposal to Ms Silvan's Security Committee. I'd like to make a few points here.
This new committee only adds another subgroup to the already dizzying amount of groups our people have. To be quite honest, the new group functions exactly how the Alliance Committee was designed to function. The factions plus a group that indies can join. All this new group does is recreate the Alliance Committee under a new flag and with the CoZ attached. We already offered Ms Silvan this when we first formed. If Ms Silvan wants the very same government we have formed she could have the CoZ join the Alliance, have the ZUI disband and join the CoZ, and thus we don't have an extra group in which our friends have to sort through. We could make a few changes to the Alliance Committee to accommodate the CoZ.
Second, Ms Silvan has not of yet officially recognized the Alliance. Until she does so, we should not work with her. If she feels the need to work with us, she can officially recognize us.
This new committee seems to be a attempt to take what we have formed and call it her own so she can look good in front of her followers. The ZUI has three active members, the CoZ has maybe double that. Ms Silvan also granted the CoZ its own seat on this Committee but failed to grant the Alliance a seat. Why?
I could support this and I have drafted two new counter-proposals and sent them to all of you via the Alliance network; but frankly I would rather see the Alliance and CoZ merge and reform both groups into one group again with the Committee as the ruling council. This council would not interfer in local deals between the factions or individual Zoners. My counter-proposals will detail what I feel this Committee should do (its responsibilities). Why must we make another sub group? Our allies get headaches when they try to figure out who to talk to.
I just like William have no care for Silvan but I think he was to forward in his methods. Look where it got him? He tried to negotiate with that madman and he lies in a comma for it.
BlueSpawn
Dec 2 2009, 01:13 AM
.::Incoming Transmission::.
Message to : Whom it May Concern
Comm ID: Yev Lightwing, Shipmaster, (]c[)
Location: Freeport 15, Omicron 74
I'll take a look at the new counter proposals.
I don't think the idea of a SHIZL like organization is all too bad. It would give us a chance to do away with the ZA Committee (with the exception of when we have to reform ZA Policies). As a matter of fact, I'm all about simplicity, and I think SC is a good way to go about it.
Getting rid of ZUI? Well, we may not have to do it now since OSI left. We'll be needing to keep ZUI for anybody in OSI that wants to stay in ZA. This is a pity because I did want to get rid of ZUI what with it being completely empty (until recently).
The ultimate idea was:
ZA = factions
CoZ = indies
SC = controls tech. abuse
Which is pretty simple, in my opinion.