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+--- Thread: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID (/showthread.php?tid=116008)
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Trogdor - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 02:28 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(05-31-2014, 09:41 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Could we have some dev/admin input on this idea please?
Well, you can't change the list of House systems to include both the systems listed in bold and italics; it has to stay as what it already is. Therefore, restricting Zoner caps from entering House systems is likely too small an area for what that approach is requesting, but yet restricting them from systems with a Jump Gate might be slightly overbearing. Therefore, what if they were restricted from systems with two or more Jump Gates? (Sorry if that's already been raised, I didn't bother to read most of the preceding seven pages.)
Regardless, if it was up to me to re-write the ID, I would at least have a line saying that Cruisers and Battleships are restricted from entering House systems (as defined by the server rules for docking). This would not apply for the Zoner factions with custom IDs, mostly because that would be a bit too harsh on TAZ, who I believe should at least be able to pass through Liberty/Bretonia under escort.
I urge you to reconsider. There are better ways to solve this problem than ham-fisted ID restrictions. All Zoner caps should be able to travel through house space under escort.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Echo 7-7 - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 03:25 AM)Trogdor Wrote:(06-01-2014, 02:28 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(05-31-2014, 09:41 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Could we have some dev/admin input on this idea please?
Well, you can't change the list of House systems to include both the systems listed in bold and italics; it has to stay as what it already is. Therefore, restricting Zoner caps from entering House systems is likely too small an area for what that approach is requesting, but yet restricting them from systems with a Jump Gate might be slightly overbearing. Therefore, what if they were restricted from systems with two or more Jump Gates? (Sorry if that's already been raised, I didn't bother to read most of the preceding seven pages.)
Regardless, if it was up to me to re-write the ID, I would at least have a line saying that Cruisers and Battleships are restricted from entering House systems (as defined by the server rules for docking). This would not apply for the Zoner factions with custom IDs, mostly because that would be a bit too harsh on TAZ, who I believe should at least be able to pass through Liberty/Bretonia under escort.
I urge you to reconsider. There are better ways to solve this problem than ham-fisted ID restrictions. All Zoner caps should be able to travel through house space under escort.
Zoner caps can already travel through House space under escort (subject to regional variations), but this discussion is still occurring, isn't it?
Quite frankly, it seems that continued lenience is not getting the message through to the offending parties.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Trogdor - 06-01-2014
And so you choose to punish everyone, including those that follow the rules?
This discussion has been occuring for years now. The cause is a lack of activity in the edge worlds. A lack of things for these players to do out there. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Echo 7-7 - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 03:40 AM)Trogdor Wrote: And so you choose to punish everyone, including those that follow the rules?
And how many Zoner caps that are roleplaying correctly need to go through House space and/or systems with 2 or more Jump Gates?
Hint: If the answer is "none", then imposing that restriction on the ID is not punishing those who are already following the rules.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Trogdor - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 03:43 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(06-01-2014, 03:40 AM)Trogdor Wrote: And so you choose to punish everyone, including those that follow the rules?
And how many Zoner caps that are roleplaying correctly need to go through House space and/or systems with 2 or more Jump Gates?
Anyone playing their cap as a guard vessel. We need to be able to get around to the various systems that have Zoner stations. There is no reasonable way to get from the Omegas to the Taus without going through Bretonia. Freeport 1 is in Omega 3, a system with 2 jump gates. We couldn't go to Freeport 2 or Ames if those stations came under attack, either.
Gallia has expressed intent in resuming hostilities with the Zoners. How are we supposed to get to Freeport 6/10/Baffin if you do this?
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Echo 7-7 - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 03:51 AM)Trogdor Wrote:(06-01-2014, 03:43 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(06-01-2014, 03:40 AM)Trogdor Wrote: And so you choose to punish everyone, including those that follow the rules?
And how many Zoner caps that are roleplaying correctly need to go through House space and/or systems with 2 or more Jump Gates?
Anyone playing their cap as a guard vessel. We need to be able to get around to the various systems that have Zoner stations. There is no reasonable way to get from the Omegas to the Taus without going through Bretonia. Freeport 1 is in Omega 3, a system with 2 jump gates.
Gallia has expressed intent in resuming hostilities with the Zoners. How are we supposed to get to Freeport 10/Baffin if you do this?
Wouldn't anyone playing as a "guard" vessel have said defensive ship already parked at the relevant freeport? I would care to note that instances of Zoner caps requesting to travel through Libertonian space are extremely rare already, which indicates there is either no need to do so, or the Zoner players are proceeding without bothering to get permission. I cannot speak on behalf of Bretonia, but I imagine they are in a similar situation.
Otherwise, you could just take the long way around through the Omicrons. If your Zoner neutrality doesn't protect you, then that would be bad luck, but surely you couldn't expect to travel across Sirius in a manner totally devoid of consequences?
If you're still desperate, you could just use a jump drive.
As far as Freeport 1, Freeport 6, and Ames are concerned, they could potentially warrant exceptions - but god forbid you might have to defend them with Gunboats or bombers!
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Trogdor - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 04:13 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(06-01-2014, 03:51 AM)Trogdor Wrote:(06-01-2014, 03:43 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(06-01-2014, 03:40 AM)Trogdor Wrote: And so you choose to punish everyone, including those that follow the rules?
And how many Zoner caps that are roleplaying correctly need to go through House space and/or systems with 2 or more Jump Gates?
Anyone playing their cap as a guard vessel. We need to be able to get around to the various systems that have Zoner stations. There is no reasonable way to get from the Omegas to the Taus without going through Bretonia. Freeport 1 is in Omega 3, a system with 2 jump gates.
Gallia has expressed intent in resuming hostilities with the Zoners. How are we supposed to get to Freeport 10/Baffin if you do this?
Wouldn't anyone playing as a "guard" vessel have said defensive ship already parked at the relevant freeport?
Uh, no? All Zoner caps come from Livadia, originally, so we had to get there somehow.
We go where we're needed, we don't take up permanent residence at one Freeport (at least, not as a rule), any more than LN player caps take up permanent residence at stations in Liberty.
You're not suggesting Freeports build their own caps, are you?
Quote:I would care to note that instances of Zoner caps requesting to travel through Libertonian space are extremely rare already, which indicates there is either no need to do so, or the Zoner players are proceeding without bothering to get permission. I cannot speak on behalf of Bretonia, but I imagine they are in a similar situation.
Gallia has not instigated hostilities yet. Like I said, they expressed an intent to do this in the near future. Even if they hadn't, there's nothing to say some other crisis won't come up.
I can't speak for others, but I have requested passage through house space, and been thusly escorted, many times.
Quote:Otherwise, you could just take the long way around through the Omicrons. If your Zoner neutrality doesn't protect you, then that would be bad luck, but surely you couldn't expect to travel across Sirius in a manner totally devoid of consequences?
This is completely unreasonable. I can't believe you're seriously suggesting that.
Quote:If you're still desperate, you could just use a jump drive.I could use my cloak, too, and they'd never even know I was there. Except, whoops, I'd be violating server rules.
Again, this is unreasonable. Come on, man.
Quote:As far as Freeport 1, Freeport 6, and Ames are concerned, they could potentially warrant exceptions - but god forbid you might have to defend them with Gunboats or bombers!
God forbid we might actually have an opportunity to do something legitimate with our capital ships. God forbid we might want to include our cap characters in these conflicts. You know, the ones we put the most money, time, and effort into developing.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Echo 7-7 - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 04:24 AM)Trogdor Wrote: ...
If you're expecting a fight, park your ships nearby. It's what many other factions do. Otherwise, you'll have to deal with the consequences / necessities of travelling either by a direct route or an indirect route. If you want to play a faction with capital ships that also has the ability to rapidly redploy said capitals the moment a battle occurs, the House navies should have you covered. The Zoner ID has enormous roleplay flexibility and wide zones of operation, but there are drawbacks to those freedoms, and the inability to travel rapidly from one corner of Sirius to another is one of those drawbacks.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - tothebonezone - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 04:24 AM)Trogdor Wrote: God forbid we might actually have an opportunity to do something legitimate with our capital ships. God forbid we might want to include our cap characters in these conflicts. You know, the ones we put the most money, time, and effort into developing.
Ah yes, god forbid you use your capital ships for the deep reaches of alien-infested space as they were intended, not the core of House space where perhaps the occasional cruiser (that'll proceed to give all zoner caps a Cerberus enema anyway)
lurks.
What is your super-expensive, supposedly super-rare capital going to do at places like Bethlehem? You're going to annoying the Navy at best, and at worst, pick fights with your SUPERIOR ZONER BATTLESHIP.
Get real.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Trogdor - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 05:13 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(06-01-2014, 04:24 AM)Trogdor Wrote: ...
If you're expecting a fight, park your ships nearby. It's what many other factions do. Otherwise, you'll have to deal with the consequences / necessities of travelling either by a direct route or an indirect route. If you want to play a faction with capital ships that also has the ability to rapidly redploy said capitals the moment a battle occurs, the House navies should have you covered. The Zoner ID has enormous roleplay flexibility and wide zones of operation, but there are drawbacks to those freedoms, and the inability to travel rapidly from one corner of Sirius to another is one of those drawbacks.
Yes, and it's perfectly acceptable for long redeployment times to be represented in-roleplay. In-game, however, it's an incredible burden to travel across, what, a dozen systems, all of which you have to cross in open space while clunking through who knows how many asteroid fields?!
Worse, going by the 'no system with 2+ jumpgates' rule, we wouldn't be able to enter any of the following border/edge worlds systems:
Omega 3
Omega 7
Sigma 17
Sigma 19
Tau-29
Tau-31
Which means we couldn't get to Freeport 1, Freeport 6, or Baffin.
And for what? To stop a few new players from coming into house space with their caps? Players who are going to end up breaking that rule anyway?
All you're doing is removing even more interactions, stifling more activity, and generally making things even worse for the Zoners.
Oh, yeah. We have just tons of roleplay flexibility. You can go roleplay with that asteroid field while you're clunking through it at 1k per minute in pretty much every edgeworld system. You can roleplay with the skybox as you fly through hundreds of k of empty space and find nary a soul in systems like Omega 47. You can roleplay with the sun as you dive into it out of frustration!