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+--- Thread: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID (/showthread.php?tid=116008)
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Pavel - 06-02-2014
Echo 7-7 is my hero. Proposal to exclude zoner caps from systems with two or more jumpgates is very good, pracically solves the problem and lets the Zoners keep their capital ships. They have no need to use them in systems like O3 where they could irritate Houses; snubswarm and gunboats work just fine.
While we're on it, let's not forget Zoner transports bigger than 3.6k cargo though, they also should be restricted from "2 and more jg" systems.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Lythrilux - 06-02-2014
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:But Jack, what makes Zoners so special that restrictions shouldn't apply to them? All the other factions have to get in line and follow restrictions in order to create a believable RP environment. What makes Zoners exempt from this?(06-01-2014, 06:56 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: @Jack
The thing is though Jack, what kind of standards are we trying to set here?
Low ones. But Disco on server roleplay has always been casual, low, relaxed. Hey, I would love to have a consequent, 100 % logical world, but there is only such a world when I invent it, and even then it is only logical for me alone. There is no such thing as a universally accepted standard of what it should be.
And: the higher you make this standard, and the more you allow innocent mistakes to break your immersion, the harder it will get for the average to get there. Consequently your immersion will be broken much more often.
And perhaps, if you think for a moment, casual and relaxed role play is not the right route for this mod to follow.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:10 reasons please.Quote:Zoner caps in house space is ooc in itself, as they're meant to be explorers.
I would not say that they are oorp.
They should not be there, IF there is not a very good reason. I can make up 10 reasons why they should be able to be there, but most players likely do not go that far as to find a reason and rp it.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: "Mistakes" in roleplay can either be:They're not just mistakes though. It's an abuse of the Zoner RP and ID. We could always revert back to simpler times when AI cruisers ran rampant in NY and BHG caps flew everywhere.
> ignored (preferrable if you assume that the player just does not know + educate the person)
> handled in roleplay
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:Quote: Having them in house since is not only silly, it also threatens their diplomacy. They can't expect to break house rules and still be friendly to the houses.
No biggie. They are indies. No official faction takes responsibility for indies any more. Nobody will even think about changing rep towards Zoners because a lulz-cap indie flew around.
Official factions don't have to though, they're their own Zoner groups. The houses could ban all Zoners except for the 3 official factions.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: The solutions:If you're a house lawful, you RP is to enforce house laws. You expect my character to not do his job just because it's a Zoner? Are you trying to apply Colons logic here now? OK, sure I can shoot it, doesn't mean I'm going to forget it. I'm sure people still have Stealthtyper fresh in their minds.
> shoot and forget
> ignore and forget
If you let something like this get in the way of your rp-experience, you are the one who is doing it wrong.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:Quote: I don't want to delete the caps, only shift them away from where they shouldn't be.
Hardcoded (via ID) ZoI restrictions are unnecessary for something like Zoners. I mean... we understand that no one wants BHG Caps on Core ID engaging their enemies everywhere. But seriously, the Zoner ID is severely limited in their pvp potential, so I doubt there is a necessity.
There is an RP necessity, in order to end house Zonerzonerzoner drama.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: However, I do not even resist a line about Cap ZoI. It just won't change much. Right now, Zoner caps are shot in House space. I always see the calls. 10 mins later, done. With that ID change, you can now sanction them in addiation. Wow.
*sigh* as I have said a million times already, it's against their RP for them to be in house space. This suggestion fixes that problem as well as relocates the caps to deeper space where new activity can be created.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Time wasted: 15 minutes.
Doing what? Shooting the zoner cap? Without this time, this means players can get on with more sensible RP.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Time wasted for Admins: 2x15 minuts.
How often do you see admins sanctioning order and core caps for leaving the Omicrons (etc)?
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: Time not used for playing, but for stupid oorp mess: 45 minutes
I don't even understand what you're getting at.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:Exactly. People are meant to be roleplaying their roles. Zoners are deep space explorers. Why are they in house space, with colony ships of all things?Quote:If you believe we shouldn't be about restrictions, then why don't we let every faction mine everywhere with the same high drop rates?
Roleplay? Play your (!) role?
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:Quote:This suggestion gives the caps a new environment to play in which in turn can stimulate the activity of other factions within the region. It's either this or, as I have said already and I am repeating my point for good measure, the houses will have to deal with them, which will have bad inRP consequences for the Zoner faction itself.
As I have said before: No one cares for an indie capship that runs into House space, gets shot out and respawns somewhere.
It's making enough effect for people to be RPing with it over th e last few weeks. And it's also sparked threads such as these. These 19 pages aren't made up of nothing.
(06-02-2014, 06:32 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:They would though, because their bases are right on the houses doorstep, if not in them. Puerto Rico is also inside Liberty, which would be where he cruiser comes from. Lawfuls aren't stupid Jack, this is am RP server. RP involves RPing a character and then dealing with the effects and consequences of your RP.Quote:And no, I don't want a Junker cruiser for the Junker NPC faction. Why? Because before we know it people will start breaking house rules left, right and center. There's a much bigger axe to grind with Junkers than Zoners inRP, and they'd be kicked out the houses pretty quickly, messing up their diplomacy.
No. Just keep your own tagged-faction cruisers in check.
As I said... no one cares and no one should care too much (in my case: at all) for the mistakes that indie players make. Our job is to tell them (best done oorply), and to go on having fun. Junkers would not suffer more from the indie Cruiser pirating in NY
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Lythrilux - 06-02-2014
(06-02-2014, 07:43 AM)Pavel Wrote: While we're on it, let's not forget Zoner transports bigger than 3.6k cargo though, they also should be restricted from "2 and more jg" systems.That might be too restricting and may make zoner trading completely null. I tried to ask Xoria if the Omicrons could have their own economy, in order to give Zoners a reason not to trade through the houses, my proposal was denied though.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Sath - 06-02-2014
please, remove zoi and cap restrictions for all factions. If Zoners are so privileged, the others have to get the same amount of goodies too. Just because having a name as Zoners doesnt mean they have to be so OP.
Aye, right now, the most OP'est and the most abused ID is the Zoner ID. Its hell easy for a month old guy to buy a Nephilim and go around NY. Or buy a whale and dock everywhere in house space.
If you are speaking that it should be relaxed, then it should be done for every other faction. Many factions are functioning with a zoi less than a fourth of the Zoners and shipline which is not even close to that of the Zoners. Their reputation is also fragile, but still these factions dont whine.
Zoners are like, they have a big shipline, an unlimited zoi, neutral rep and whatnot, still they whine if something changes. What the hell do they even? If they get it, I will whine for every other faction that is currently unplayable to be buffed in terms of shipline and zoi restrictions. Zoners are no gods.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Lythrilux - 06-02-2014
Also Jack, if you claim officials don't take responsibility for indies, then what's this?
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Zed26 - 06-02-2014
I'm not sure why there need to be so many ID restrictions and yet more rules to keep in mind for poor-RP Zoner capital ships in house space when you can easily get some friends to make Pirate ID Warans.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Pavel - 06-02-2014
(06-02-2014, 08:37 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: That might be too restricting and may make zoner trading completely null. I tried to ask Xoria if the Omicrons could have their own economy, in order to give Zoners a reason not to trade through the houses, my proposal was denied though.
Zoner transports up to 3.6k cargo would still be allowed Lyth. It's not my problem if Zoner powertraders are no longer able to dock their freighter shield storks with ore inside house space when no one's watching.
House trade routes are for corporations.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Lythrilux - 06-02-2014
(06-02-2014, 08:55 AM)Pavel Wrote:The problem is that trade routes aren't built for such a restriction. Zoners would just be left with a lot of unprofitable trade routes that take too long for too little profit.(06-02-2014, 08:37 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: That might be too restricting and may make zoner trading completely null. I tried to ask Xoria if the Omicrons could have their own economy, in order to give Zoners a reason not to trade through the houses, my proposal was denied though.
Zoner transports up to 3.6k cargo would still be allowed Lyth. It's not my problem if Zoner powertraders are no longer able to dock their freighter shield storks with ore inside house space when no one's watching.
House trade routes are for corporations.
If Xoria could cook up routes to accommodate this though, then it'd be fine.
Edit: I just had a thought, why not have a line saying: "Cannot haul any ores"?
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Pavel - 06-02-2014
Generally everything what curbs zoner trading inside House space is a good thing Lyth, but ideal solution would be when Zoners couldn't use anything bigger than 3.6k inside Houses.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - SnakThree - 06-02-2014
Well, I have another idea. It's using "Zoner 5k ID" of some sorts and rephacking all corporations/lawfuls to no-dock.
Done deal, no more house trading for them.
EDIT: "House" Zoner ID at 3.6k and lower; Zoner ID at 3.6k and more ...
