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+--- Thread: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID (/showthread.php?tid=116008)
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Sabru - 06-03-2014
(06-03-2014, 07:53 AM)Trogdor Wrote: Side Note: If Gallia does, in fact, decide to resume hostilities with the Zoners as they suggested, and we can't mount an effective defense because the independent Zoner caps are all pushed out to the Deep Omicrons and can't get to the Taus? It would be perfectly logical and inRP for the GRN to crush TAZ and destroy everything in Baffin for the next mod update.
..That's actually kind of appealing, now that I think about it.
1) now all that is you just being acrimonious and a little bit vindictive. you need a few sandwiches.
2) your logic and belief that if indie zoner caps got restricted to the 'crons, baffin would be defenceless and be easily krieged by GRN is really flawed.
first: your use of the "we". that really irks me, because the only time you use "we" is when it suits you.
second: As pavel pointed out, indie caps not being around would not be a huge disadvantage as you claim. We actually have been planning for GRN krieg for a while.
second: As pavel pointed out, indie caps not being around would not be a huge disadvantage as you claim. We actually have been planning for GRN krieg for a while.
(06-03-2014, 07:53 AM)Trogdor Wrote: ..That's actually kind of appealing, now that I think about it.now that's just being bitter.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Trogdor - 06-03-2014
(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: But Trogdor...
Zoners don't have any "fleet" of some sort or anything.
But Pavel...
Yes we do. They're just mostly independent craft wandering around. It's logical to assume that because we don't have many conflicts, they tend to last a while, and so attrition is low. Contacting them, convincing them, and herding them to Baffin would be a challenge. Moreso if they have to go north and over Kusari than if they can go south through Bretonia.
(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: Giving them caps was a mistake, at least surely giving unrestricted acces to them instead of making them SRP-available ships.Oh give it a rest Pavel. We've been down that road, and I will never agree with you. We have them, we're keeping them, so let's use them. Anything less is a waste.
(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: If Gallia decided to krieg Zoners again, Zoners wouldn't defend FP6, no matter how hard they'd try.Against the full might of the GRN? No, certainly not. However I figure they can't commit more than a token force without losing ground somewhere else, and that we'd be able to deal with. It depends how much support we could drum up.
(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: If Gallia goes to Baffin to "crush TAZ", they'll probably have to deal with CR-LN reinforcements there and OCs/Privateers/Exiles harassing their Tau supply lines.I'm torn. InRP I should do whatever I can to defend them, but oorp I want them gone so very badly.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - SMI-Great.Fox - 06-03-2014
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote:(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: If Gallia goes to Baffin to "crush TAZ", they'll probably have to deal with CR-LN reinforcements there and OCs/Privateers/Exiles harassing their Tau supply lines.I'm torn. InRP I should do whatever I can to defend them, but oorp I want them gone so very badly.
I'd like to see your explination on why You in particular want TAZ gone so badly when we haven't done anything to rectify such verse.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - SnakThree - 06-03-2014
(06-03-2014, 09:20 AM)SMI-Great.Fox Wrote:(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote:(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: If Gallia goes to Baffin to "crush TAZ", they'll probably have to deal with CR-LN reinforcements there and OCs/Privateers/Exiles harassing their Tau supply lines.I'm torn. InRP I should do whatever I can to defend them, but oorp I want them gone so very badly.
I'd like to see your explination on why You in particular want TAZ gone so badly when we haven't done anything to rectify such verse.
[TAZ]Chaoticity 03:41:13 30/05/2014 14:27:51
[TAZ]The.Twenty-third 03:11:44 19/05/2014 17:35:15
Exactly. you havn't been doing anything for the last 30 days.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Thyrzul - 06-03-2014
(06-03-2014, 07:53 AM)Trogdor Wrote: I've had quite enough of you telling me who my character is, what he can't do, how he's not important, and how nobody would be interested in interacting with him in any situation.
I'm not telling you who your character is, I'm telling you to roleplay your character while at the same time having some consideration to others, because this is not SP, this is goddamn MP, and you are not surrounded by NPCs, you are surrounded by players, real people. I'm telling you to roleplay your character in a way his actions will have positive/negative effects mostly on him, and won't drag others into potential trouble he caused. If that's too hard to ask, go and roam the houses with your Aquilon in Single player.
(06-03-2014, 07:53 AM)Trogdor Wrote: Side Note: If Gallia does, in fact, decide to resume hostilities with the Zoners as they suggested, and we can't mount an effective defense because the independent Zoner caps are all pushed out to the Deep Omicrons and can't get to the Taus? It would be perfectly logical and inRP for the GRN to crush TAZ and destroy everything in Baffin for the next mod update.
..That's actually kind of appealing, now that I think about it.
If Gallia goes against TAZ, TAZ has Council, CR, LN(, BAF, Exiles) behind themselves to aid them.
(06-03-2014, 08:21 AM)Snak3 Wrote: How many different Zoner Battleships have you personally encountered in the last 30 days?
One, which is more than how many should be in the houses.
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote: But Pavel...
Yes we do.
You do... have one (or maybe more, but only a few) cap(s).
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote: They're just mostly independent craft wandering around.
Few caps scattered around whole Sirius, wandering pointlessly, and completely independent from eachother is not a fleet. An adequate amount of organized and concentrated caps with a specific and most importantly common goal, bound to a set hierarchy, is a fleet.
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote: Against the full might of the GRN? No, certainly not. However I figure they can't commit more than a token force without losing ground somewhere else, and that we'd be able to deal with. It depends how much support we could drum up.
No Zoner force in itself would be enough to stop the GRN (no powergaming, pls). However, the combo mentioned above might have some slowdown effect.
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote: I'm torn. InRP I should do whatever I can to defend them, but oorp I want them gone so very badly.
Oh, that's so nice of you.
(06-03-2014, 09:25 AM)Snak3 Wrote: [TAZ]Chaoticity 03:41:13 30/05/2014 14:27:51
[TAZ]The.Twenty-third 03:11:44 19/05/2014 17:35:15
Exactly. you havn't been doing anything for the last 30 days.
Hey, that's me.
Also flown alongside Coconut Tree recently, at least for an hour, but that's not logged somehow. Just saying how reliable that activity sheet is, in case you'd want to prove anything with it in the future.
Also flown alongside Coconut Tree recently, at least for an hour, but that's not logged somehow. Just saying how reliable that activity sheet is, in case you'd want to prove anything with it in the future.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Occam Razor - 06-03-2014
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote: But Pavel...No, as Thyrzul stated already, independent ships doing their own stuff is not a fleet.
Yes we do. They're just mostly independent craft wandering around. It's logical to assume that because we don't have many conflicts, they tend to last a while, and so attrition is low. Contacting them, convincing them, and herding them to Baffin would be a challenge. Moreso if they have to go north and over Kusari than if they can go south through Bretonia.
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote: Oh give it a rest Pavel. We've been down that road, and I will never agree with you. We have them, we're keeping them, so let's use them. Anything less is a waste.You will then never agree with me aswell, I do not think Zoners should have capital ships.
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote: Against the full might of the GRN? No, certainly not. However I figure they can't commit more than a token force without losing ground somewhere else, and that we'd be able to deal with. It depends how much support we could drum up.Again, only slowing them would be possible, with the help of other factions who have a real military like the Colonials, Liberty and Bretonia.
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote: I'm torn. InRP I should do whatever I can to defend them, but oorp I want them gone so very badly.And why do you want one of the few Zoner factions that do some real Zoner RP gone? They did nearly everything right, they don't abuse caps ( I think they don't even use them much) and they create enjoyable RP for both sides. I do not want to see them gone and I don't understand why anyone would want that.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Lythrilux - 06-04-2014
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote:Do the zoners press a magic button and do they all start coming together to form a fleet?(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: But Trogdor...
Zoners don't have any "fleet" of some sort or anything.
But Pavel...
Yes we do. They're just mostly independent craft wandering around.
Wow, we should all be careful not to anger the Freelancer fleet.
(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote:Interesting justification. Although I don't agree with zoner caps, I do agree you should use them, as explorers and colony ships.(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: Giving them caps was a mistake, at least surely giving unrestricted acces to them instead of making them SRP-available ships.Oh give it a rest Pavel. We've been down that road, and I will never agree with you. We have them, we're keeping them, so let's use them. Anything less is a waste.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Trogdor - 06-04-2014
(06-04-2014, 11:35 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote:Do the zoners press a magic button and do they all start coming together to form a fleet?(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: But Trogdor...
Zoners don't have any "fleet" of some sort or anything.
But Pavel...
Yes we do. They're just mostly independent craft wandering around.
Wow, we should all be careful not to anger the Freelancer fleet.
Wow, I like how you only quoted part of what I said there, in an effort to strawman my argument and make yourself look superior.
Quote:(06-03-2014, 08:36 AM)Trogdor Wrote:Interesting justification. Although I don't agree with zoner caps, I do agree you should use them, as explorers and colony ships.(06-03-2014, 08:04 AM)Pavel Wrote: Giving them caps was a mistake, at least surely giving unrestricted acces to them instead of making them SRP-available ships.Oh give it a rest Pavel. We've been down that road, and I will never agree with you. We have them, we're keeping them, so let's use them. Anything less is a waste.
They're not "Colony Ships", no matter what certain recent infocard changes made by biased devs would have you believe.
http://discoverygc.com/wiki/Nephilim
Quote:"Nephilim" Zoner Dreadnought
The new upgrade to the aging "Juggernaut" class Zoner capital ship was named "Nephilim" after the race of legendary giants. Zoners have customized these vessels to fill multiple roles on the modern battlefield as well as serve as heavy transports and supply ships for the most remote regions of space. Ships of this class take up unbelievably vast amounts of resources and expert engineering, but are also designed to be in service for several generations, justifying their great cost. The Zoners who travel into the unknown of deep space trust these ships to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony. The new Nephilim is equipped with an expanded docking bay, upgraded navigation and tactical stations, and improved fire control computers. Its reactor core is far more efficient than the previous design, propelling the ship with the same power core used in the "Leviathan" class. It is not known how many of these ships are deployed by Zoners or to what exact use they are all put, but it has become a certainty that Zoners do possess the capability to produce them.
Notice how several lines emphasizing their role as combat ships, and that we may have a decent number of them, were removed. This was bull, and the fact that our OFs didn't stand up against the devs in this matter is one of the reasons I have such contempt for them.
And I'm not the only one.
I would list quotes, but they're in PM's, private conversations, and I'm loathe to start revealing things said to me with an expectation that it would stay between the sender and myself.
I'll repeat here what I said over in my thread. If the community wants a colony ship, that's fine. But a colony ship has no business equipping heavy capital ship weaponry. It should have no combat role beyond self preservation, and be armed only to deflect torpedoes (flaks) and fight enemies it can't run from (snubs). If the community wants that, take the Aquilon and make it into that. Then take the Nephilim and abandon all pretense of it being anything other than the heavily armed defensive monster it was always meant to be.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Lythrilux - 06-04-2014
(06-04-2014, 12:05 PM)Trogdor Wrote: "Nephilim" Zoner DreadnoughtI bolded some stuff for you.
The new upgrade to the aging "Juggernaut" class Zoner capital ship was named "Nephilim" after the race of legendary giants. Zoners have customized these vessels to fill multiple roles on the modern battlefield as well as serve as heavy transports and supply ships for the most remote regions of space. Ships of this class take up unbelievably vast amounts of resources and expert engineering, but are also designed to be in service for several generations, justifying their great cost. The Zoners who travel into the unknown of deep space trust these ships to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony. The new Nephilim is equipped with an expanded docking bay, upgraded navigation and tactical stations, and improved fire control computers. Its reactor core is far more efficient than the previous design, propelling the ship with the same power core used in the "Leviathan" class. It is not known how many of these ships are deployed by Zoners or to what exact use they are all put, but it has become a certainty that Zoners do possess the capability to produce them.
(06-04-2014, 12:05 PM)Trogdor Wrote: Notice how several lines emphasizing their role as combat ships, and that we may have a decent number of them, were removed. This was bull, and the fact that our OFs didn't stand up against the devs in this matter is one of the reasons I have such contempt for them.That's because they were never meant to exist for such a purpose in any event anyway. Zoners are not war mongers, they're pacifists, explorers, researchers, people wanting to escape the stressful life of the houses (for reasons such as war). The reason why they may have not stood up is because we don't have any Zoner Alliance style official factions (thank god).
(06-04-2014, 12:05 PM)Trogdor Wrote: And I'm not the only one.
You, Tel, maybe lIceColon. Still not very credible anyway.
(06-04-2014, 12:05 PM)Trogdor Wrote: I would list quotes, but they're in PM's, private conversations, I'm loathe to start revealing things said to me with an expectation that it would stay between the sender and myself.The community can't take that statement as credible until we see the PMs.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - SnakThree - 06-04-2014
The trouble Zoner Capital Ships causes globally is negligible in comparison to the uproar that Zoner discussion causes. I only encountered or remember 2 zoner battleships in Liberty during last 6 months. The second was met yesterday.
So now think, whether is it even worth wasting time and effort trying to prove your points here, instead of playing the game and actually upping the RP standard / adding to activity.
Again, the problem is insignificant.