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+--- Thread: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? (/showthread.php?tid=121591)
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Zen_Mechanics - 10-11-2014
Omicrons are danger on its own, Yes i feel in danger with my zoner but I embrace it. Such fears don't mean that I have to start trading with a battleship because a gunboat decides to follow me until a point where he has a clean shot at me and only then de-cloak. Unlike you guys in Core, life continues on with or without battleships and trading is by far more important then any cloak perks the nomads have. One raises the activity, one lowers it.
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Sath - 10-11-2014
Indys don't need more nerfing. I am pretty sure that would end very badly (as if there are a lot of indy nomads roaming around now). Ironically, the ones that are using the cloak to its fullest potential are the official factions, and they even have access outside of Omicrons. If at all, people cry about abuse, I don't see when and where. The indys are allowed only inside Omicrons, and they cannot shoot anyone inside Gamma or Alpha, if I am right (which constitutes to over 40% of the Omicrons activity). So, where is it being abused, and how?
This is a joke really...the OP was mentioning about official factions cloaking and irritating, inside house space. And instead of addressing that issue, there is a statement that indys will lose access to the nomad cloak. gg
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Lythrilux - 10-11-2014
(10-11-2014, 12:02 PM)Moriarty. Wrote: This is a joke really...the OP was mentioning about official factions cloaking and irritating, inside house space. And instead of addressing that issue, there is a statement that indys will lose access to the nomad cloak. gg
+1000
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Emile - 10-11-2014
(10-11-2014, 09:58 AM)Mímir Wrote: Ehem, can I just point out that this has only happened to me (cloaked mind****) by official faction K'hara and associates (yes, D9 too), before it's made into an indie vs faction problem.Mimir i know what you mean and i agree with you. I do believe that the nomads k'hara should stay in the omicrons. It is not logical to see a nomad flying in house space where they should be undercover. It is the job of the wilde to be in house space to infiltrate the humans? Nomads should defend their homes in the omicrons and systems directly bordering them. Not in the middle of a house! If you show a big nomad ship in house space the law enforcers will tighten the security and scan for humans who are possessed by the nomads. It would only endanger their undercover and bonds in a house. But who are we kidding? It is made for a elite for who can shoot everyone anywhere just when they are in the mood for it.
If you know how to pilot a ship, and you aren't flying a cap, you can go most places in this game unscathed. You don't need a cloak for that.
It is proved again with nerving the ones who are very limited in their zoi being a nomad indie. To nerf now with cloak time, not that they can go far and not even use big ships. It is again a official faction perk what is abused by the officials in the middle of houses where they should not be. Look how human players need to sacrifice armor for cloak time. The nomad gunboat can have the most heavy armor with infinite cloak time, add with it that the officials can go anywhere. Along with that to shoot anyone with just making a line to engage. Bond them to the Omicrons, so the order and bhg core can shoot big ships too. If the k'hara is not bond to the omicrons with their big ships, then these 2 factions should have the same right to go sirius wide to hunt their nomad enemies with whatever they have. If that will be an option then you can just remove a big part of the omicrons, they would become irrelevant then.
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Haste - 10-11-2014
As a member of both a Wild and the official Nomad faction, I've argued against infinite cloaks a fair bit myself.
All I've honestly seen them do is avoid interaction and encourage irritating behavior. For example, staying permanently cloaked only to pile three snubs on one and then immediately cloaking away. You might consider it "good roleplay", I mainly consider it a dick move (as there's no counter to it whatsoever - unless you consider constantly monitoring and metagaming the playerlist a valid counter).
Fun and memorable encounters with K'Hara in the past are exactly what motivated me to apply. I can't recall a single memorable encounter - as a human character - since infinite cloaks have been added, primarily because I haven't had any encounters that weren't: "Hey look, an uncloaked Nomad, kill it before it can cloak up".
Why? Because it's now impossible to seek out Nomads. If the players behind them suspect there's even a one percent chance they might get shot, they tend to cower and hide.
I greatly preferred being chased down by half a dozen Order| snubs for taking my Voidrunner into Liberty over the current situation where [LN], =LSF= and the Order| don't even bother logging in if I park a K'Hara ship in New York, because they suspect I'll just cloak indefinitely.
TL;DR:
Infinite cloaks promote interaction avoidance, prevent people from logging in to interact with their owners, promote metagaming as the only valid counter, and promote killing every Nomad and Wild you ever see immediately, as nine times out of ten if you don't, they'll just cloak away and offer zero interaction.
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Zen_Mechanics - 10-11-2014
(10-11-2014, 12:02 PM)Moriarty. Wrote: Indys don't need more nerfing. I am pretty sure that would end very badly (as if there are a lot of indy nomads roaming around now). Ironically, the ones that are using the cloak to its fullest potential are the official factions, and they even have access outside of Omicrons. If at all, people cry about abuse, I don't see when and where. The indys are allowed only inside Omicrons, and they cannot shoot anyone inside Gamma or Alpha, if I am right (which constitutes to over 40% of the Omicrons activity). So, where is it being abused, and how?
This is a joke really...the OP was mentioning about official factions cloaking and irritating, inside house space. And instead of addressing that issue, there is a statement that indys will lose access to the nomad cloak. gg
Order activities, Core activities, Zoner activities
Iota,Zeta,74,Kappa,Delta,Minor,90,99 - Most systems where most factions hangout - You should fly more often instead of forumlancing. I have a deep problem with nomad cloaks, not nomads or nomad indies - somehow you missed that distinction. No one wants to limit Indies, because believe it or not - we are also indies, but the cost of giving perks to one set of groups over another, knowing fully that the other side has little to no fighting chance - thats beyond stupid, talk about stockholm syndrom
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Eonaros - 10-11-2014
Nomads had infinite cloaks in Single Player and thus it should stay in Discovery too, but only for K'Hara and Das Wilde members .
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Sath - 10-11-2014
(10-11-2014, 12:53 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote:(10-11-2014, 12:02 PM)Moriarty. Wrote: Indys don't need more nerfing. I am pretty sure that would end very badly (as if there are a lot of indy nomads roaming around now). Ironically, the ones that are using the cloak to its fullest potential are the official factions, and they even have access outside of Omicrons. If at all, people cry about abuse, I don't see when and where. The indys are allowed only inside Omicrons, and they cannot shoot anyone inside Gamma or Alpha, if I am right (which constitutes to over 40% of the Omicrons activity). So, where is it being abused, and how?
This is a joke really...the OP was mentioning about official factions cloaking and irritating, inside house space. And instead of addressing that issue, there is a statement that indys will lose access to the nomad cloak. gg
Order activities, Core activities, Zoner activities
Iota,Zeta,74,Kappa,Delta,Minor,90,99 - Most systems where most factions hangout - You should fly more often instead of forumlancing. I have a deep problem with nomad cloaks, not nomads or nomad indies - somehow you missed that distinction. No one wants to limit Indies, because believe it or not - we are also indies, but the cost of giving perks to one set of groups over another, knowing fully that the other side has little to no fighting chance - thats beyond stupid, talk about stockholm syndrom
What can I even say about this? Order, Core, Zoners, Sairs, OCs and everyone have a distinct number of bases to land on, do repairs, buy things, and whatnot. The nomads (the nomad ID, not the trial ID) have 3 bases to dock in. Spread over 2 systems through which I have to travel over 100k to reach the bases. Remove the cloaks, and lets see if they can go into Zeta/Mu/Delta/Rho. I don't know about others, I would, for sure not fly over half an hour (don't say Omicrons are active, please), dodging thousands of NPC guard patrols, and bases to find one player, and ultimately dying to him (cos, nomad snubs suck big time).
Also, did you read the previous posts? You say, no one is trying to limit the indys. QQ. The nomad indys are already nerfed to death (Omicrons only, no access to anything bigger than a gb). And now, in this same thread, this
(10-11-2014, 01:33 AM)aerelm Wrote: This is already done for the next update. Only the official K'hara and Wild will be keeping their infinite cloaks.
I speak from the perspective of someone who often plays in the Omicrons with a nomad bomber and a nomad assasin. I have been there, and know exactly what a pain in the rear it is, to fly without these cloaks. I don't know why these cloaks were added, but they sure made life easier to travel, even if is inside the Omicrons. The above quoted is not a very good solution for the persisting problem of cloak abuse (believe me, I have seen certain K'Hara troll our Core| raid using those cloaks, cloaking while on our scanner range and making us a fool for over 2 hours while following us all the places we went. While not many indys do that. But that is not relevant here, QQ)
EDIT: I do have a solution for this, just nerf the spawn rates of NPCs, and nerf them in the guard systems. So flying a nomad through there won't be tough. And remove infinite cloaks totally, for everyone. 8|
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Mímir - 10-13-2014
(10-11-2014, 02:15 PM)Moriarty. Wrote: And remove infinite cloaks totally, for everyone. 8|
So, is this gonna happen? I think all, official tentacle factions included, could benefit a lot from it.
RE: Unlimited cloaks - bad for rp? - Vrabcek - 10-13-2014
(10-11-2014, 02:15 PM)Moriarty. Wrote: remove infinite cloaks totally, for everyone. 8|
Remove all cloaks 8|