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+--- Thread: "Butt Cloaking" (/showthread.php?tid=148799)
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - Marburg - 03-17-2017
(03-17-2017, 08:17 PM)Wesker Wrote: Decloaking on a ship with another ship from point blank or mid range (battleship cruiser gb you name it) and immediately opening fire after dropping an engagement notice while cloaked.
TY for cluing me in...I appreciate it.
If that's a thing now, that's too bad. it sounds like a real pussified way to engage someone.
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - Wesker - 03-17-2017
(03-17-2017, 08:27 PM)Marburg Wrote:(03-17-2017, 08:17 PM)Wesker Wrote: Decloaking on a ship with another ship from point blank or mid range (battleship cruiser gb you name it) and immediately opening fire after dropping an engagement notice while cloaked.
TY for cluing me in...I appreciate it.
If that's a thing now, that's too bad. it sounds like a real pussified way to engage someone.
There are several ways to avoid it, cloak disruptors, cruising out, also if you've ever partaken in a cap fight as a dreadnought without a cloak or lacking the ability to EK, you'd see the necessity.
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - eigos - 03-17-2017
Just a heads-up to all those who think cloaks are "all that" - they are not.
You hear them coming, they don't last forever*, you move around (and you check the damn chat to see who it is that's stalking you in that system).
Even better, if you have a cloak disruptor, or a cloak of your own.
* P.S. the "they don't last forever" part doesent apply for nomads...
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - HuggieSunrise - 03-17-2017
Tuni. your wording is vary funny.
so i'm going for the throat and really this doesn't change my opinion on people I'm just saying this is the case.
The use of cloaks to pop in and bust up people while their rping or cybering or whatever is exactly the same kind of gatecrashing crap everyone hates. but that is a vary specific instance where the parties rping weren't paying attention. or if they where they just ignored it for whatever reason. Bottom line crashing a party is never fun when its your party.
same goes for victims of a surprise attack from decloaking. no one likes to die here but this isnt and should not be the foundation for making the khara engagement line to become server policy.
Sheer butthurt hasn't improved the quality or interest in this place. it sure as heck hasn't improved my factions quality of life.
Aside the already extensive dev related deterrents to the cloak system my only input here would be that there's two versions of cloaks that are not implemented correctly.
The alien cloaks function on an extremely long charge up but last indefinitely until brought down. This is because the design was offensive in nature. The cloaks cant be used to get away effectively.
Human cloak on the other hand have a much smaller warmup time they are in a sence more defensive.
We should make both more distinct. IE defensive cloaks bring down the gun energy but impact shield regen. Not kill the shields make them charge up slower.
Offensive cloaks should kill the shields but preserve gun energy.
or you can take the easy way out and just have all the damn cloaks suck up shields and gun power. it would be realistic but will it stop the moaning about them being used to kill anyone? I highly doubt it.
You aren't going to stop the complaints. you're not going to end certain people's hatred of being the victim in these cases. So i'm hoping to god the admin team stops using the indignant rage as a springboard for anymore bright shining initiatives.
Any other problem outside of butthurt has clear and simple solutions. When you start catering to feelings you should pay attention to the feeling in your brain that's says.. this does not compute. they still dont like it. Well. the mentality here is everyone knows the rules to checkers but half a dozen people over the years invented personal rules cause the cut and dry jump over the other guy to kill him rules were too hot to handle cause they keep losing.
We dont need anymore special checkers rules here. Maybe we should wake up and realise some people will never be satisfied.
And if you think thats harsh play gta online for a week. you'll see these people. they log in. despite passive mode being available and still scream at you when you kill them or they get killed.
Its lunacy being rewarded and its got to Effing stop.
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - Marburg - 03-17-2017
@ wesker: I'm game enough to look into it & learn more, but on the surface, based on the term itself & the explanation you gave, it sounds like a moistey wet option to try & eek out an easy win using RP simply as a cover that could otherwise be a better pvp without the subterfuge.
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - Tunicle - 03-17-2017
(03-17-2017, 08:43 PM)HuggieSunrise Wrote: Tuni. your wording is vary funny.
True, an attempt to be as neutral as possible to indicate we were seeking information and not prejudging anything.
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - Flash™ - 03-17-2017
Here's the idea I had: (Not sure if possible though.)
-Clear outline of the ship when cloaked instead of completely invisible.
Nomads can still have the completely invisible effect.
If anyone is confused what I'm talking about, think of the Halo Camouflage Mode, or Call of Duty Active Camo. You can partially imitate the effect currently in game by cloaking, and then decloaking when your ship is half invisible, so you can get the general idea of how it would look.
Here's a few screenshots: One Two Three
You would notice a cloaked ship right by you or near you if you pay close attention, but wouldn't see it from far away. I know this brings the argument of "Then why would you need Cloak CD if you can just see the cloaked ship."
True, but you can rework the Cloak CD to take a different effect on cloaked ships when used. For example: If a cloaked ship is 5k from you, you hit the Cloak CD. Instead of it completely uncloaking the cloaked ship, it makes him appear on scanners for 5 seconds and the outline of the cloaked ship becomes a lot brighter to where you would notice it from range. That way you know it's initial position and know someone is aiming for you. Giving you the opportunity to move.
Okay, I get it. "But cloak CD takes so long to recharge." True, hence why you make it less time to recharge, and less batteries to use. That way you can use it more often and be aware of the cloaked ship and where it resides.
Thoughts?
JUST A IDEA, don't stone me. <3
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - Sombs - 03-17-2017
Don't take them away! Don't limit them more!
Cloaks are an opportunity. Snub/Gunboat/Cruiser cloaks are merely a combat-related feature. Both CAN be used to escape from a group battle, even in duels. It just takes the enemy to not fire CDs for twenty seconds - some enemies actually forget about that, and that's good. I'm usually the first person to complain about the multi-tool called CD, as I simply don't like that all CDs are the same and are able to prevent mighty battleships from cruising, jumping and cloaking when the cloak is in the charging phase.
You think cloaks are reducing interaction? They don't. Without cloaks, people would be less likely to enter hostile or law-protected territory, as the laws of some factions are ridiculous and take away too much freedom (Order, Rheinland, Kusari). Either people cloak in those regions or they simply don't go there. What is your problem with it? Knowing by playerlisting someone is in your territory and you can't find the player? Why would you care? Battleship Cloak Disruptors have a range of 9k - as soon as you hear the enemy being cloaked, you can simply use the Cloak Disruptor. Best example are the official bretonian battleships.
You should ask yourself: Do you want people to be cloaked or do you want them to not even log, because they know you will find them via playerlist?
Take the cloaks away and you will just have even less people logging, and the ones that are persistent enough will simply fly off-plane. If you don't want to be seen, there are many possibilities to ensure it.
The Buttcloakers are everywhere!
Blaming indies for it is outright wrong, as many official faction battleships use that tactics as well. Instead of limiting access to something that is CRITICALLY NECESSARY for some battleships/factions, alter what is given to ensure it can't be abused. Add power drain, similar to the cruise-based power drain to the Cloak MKII Adv but also add an offensive version of the battleship cloak. Something only for combat purposes. 4-6 batteries per second, 20-40 seconds to charge, otherwise the same stats as the Cloak MKII Adv. but without power drain.
Battleships wouldn't get the chance to sneak up to the enemy that easily, as you would need to time your sneak attack perfectly - 3 to 4 minutes is enough time to cruise 63k to 84k. Enough to get in position, but not enough to idle around or being cloaked for the entire time of you searching the ship. Have a scout, profit from it.
Stop blaming them. Blame yourself and accept you can't always be in favor!
Get Cloak Disruptors. If you want to fight invisible, combat-avoiding people that desperately, don't blame them for trying to prevent exactly that from happening. Jayce is absolutely right here and should post the reindeer picture of Jess here, too.
(03-17-2017, 07:48 PM)Croft Wrote: Personally I'd like to see cloaks remove you from scanners but not visually leaving the current cloaks to the Nomads and their minions, just to give the threat to Mankind a "lurking monster" effect.
That sounds great and should be an alternative option to the cloak. A scanner jammer that shows you only when explicitely targeted. Should use up some commodity, but last longer than a cloak. God, I'd love to see that. Ghost ships.
However, always remember who's the one who'd be necessary to code all that. Keep it realistic. Mabye a mere rule adjustment will do it. Or the addition of power drain.
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - Durandal - 03-17-2017
Just need to make cloak disruptors more readily available/use a slot that doesn't punish you as much for mounting one.
RE: "Butt Cloaking" - Thunderer - 03-17-2017
(03-17-2017, 09:04 PM)Durandal Wrote: Just need to make cloak disruptors more readily available/use a slot that doesn't punish you as much for mounting one.
I agree, but I think that the CM slot, which is in use already, is suitable. A cloak takes the same one after all.