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+---- Thread: Discussion: Barge Removal (/showthread.php?tid=120059)
Discussion: Barge Removal - aerelm - 09-02-2014
Here are a couple of so-easy-to-miss updates on the subject posted somewhere burried in the dozen pages of this thread:
(09-12-2014, 09:45 PM)aerelm Wrote:Since the first post was apparently not clear enough and I keep getting a whole lot of the same question on Skype, here's a more clear reword of what's been said in the first post, in shiny colors too:
Removal of the Barge in its current form is definite. After the next update the Barge as we know it will not exist anymore, so if you want to buy/sell a Barge, do so with that in mind. What's still undecided is what the ship will be replaced with and that's the reason this thread is posted: To brainstorm the possible replacements for the Barge.
So far the most frequent suggestion's been turning it into a "mothership" of sorts, and the team's currently discussing an idea more or less along that line, however, this is still being discussed and we're still open to suggestions. A notice will be posted once the decision is final.
(09-13-2014, 04:34 PM)aerelm Wrote:(09-13-2014, 11:26 AM)Sabru Wrote: Question: For those factions (and players) who own barges, with their removal would they (in the future) receive a... whatever eventually replaces it in compensation?
That's up to the admins to decide, and there's currently an ongoing discussion regarding this, which we'll post a notice for when it reaches a conclusion. We'll most likely be refunding the Barge owners in some way, but since the stock price of the ship is 500 millions (1 billion for the older SRPed Barges), we most likely will not be offering a full refund to those who've paid considerably higher prices (as the price of the ship goes up to 30 billions in the open market) for that ship to purchase it from another player rather than simply going for a SRPed Barge (which under the current system would've only cost them 250 millions), as that was simply their call, and not a restriction enforced by the team.
Furthermore, for the sake of transparency the following is the idea we're currently discussing as a Barge replacement within the dev team. It's not final yet, but currently the most likely option for implementation:
One of the current "gameplay gaps" is the lack of an open-use jumpship, which as a result forces factions with no access to capital ships to use oorply-IDed capitals from friendly/neutral factions to jump their ships. Since one of the recent additions to the next update is an open-use survey ship turning Barge into an open-use jumpship is currently being discussed. To make the ship available to all IDs it'd be classified as a Liner, but with a jumpdrive mount, a good number of docking modules, and reasonable defensive capabilities but no significant offensive capabilities. This will help retain the Barge's role as a "mobile facility" for those who've been RPing their Barges as such, and at the same time remove the problematic "supertransport" element from the mod while also solving the lack of an open-use jumpship.
And this was the original text of this post:
So, removing the Barge has been suggested and discussed over and over and over and over again. It's been sitting there on the to-do list of 4.87 development but kept being pushed back due to more important stuff being in the way. Now that we're working on the final release, it's one of the issues that's finally addressed.
The Barge was added as the early version of "player base", to act as a flyable HQ or mega-storage for factions and groups, or to be used as factories or mobile installations by individuals, however, with the release of 4.86 POBs pretty much replaced that role, doing what Barge was supposed to do but better. Since then, Barge has not been useless but has instead found various use that were not really the original intention behind the ship and do not benefit the server.
For now, the conclusion we've reached within the dev team is that a complete removal of the Barge is the best option for the general health of the mod and the server, however, as this is not final yet we're open to suggestions regarding any possible alternative usage for the Barge, which would allow repurposing the ship (after making required adjustments) to fill an existing gameplay gap. Just for the record, jumptrading with the Barge or using it as additional storage for POBs are not considered valid use of this ship by developer standards, so don't bother suggesting those two. What we're looking for are fresh ideas which could allow completely reworking the Barge into something useful and beneficial to server gameplay.
This thread will stay open for a week or two for discussion, brainstorming and possible suggestions. The final decision on whether the Barge will be entirely removed or reworked and repurposed for another role will be made afterwards.
The Barge was added as the early version of "player base", to act as a flyable HQ or mega-storage for factions and groups, or to be used as factories or mobile installations by individuals, however, with the release of 4.86 POBs pretty much replaced that role, doing what Barge was supposed to do but better. Since then, Barge has not been useless but has instead found various use that were not really the original intention behind the ship and do not benefit the server.
For now, the conclusion we've reached within the dev team is that a complete removal of the Barge is the best option for the general health of the mod and the server, however, as this is not final yet we're open to suggestions regarding any possible alternative usage for the Barge, which would allow repurposing the ship (after making required adjustments) to fill an existing gameplay gap. Just for the record, jumptrading with the Barge or using it as additional storage for POBs are not considered valid use of this ship by developer standards, so don't bother suggesting those two. What we're looking for are fresh ideas which could allow completely reworking the Barge into something useful and beneficial to server gameplay.
This thread will stay open for a week or two for discussion, brainstorming and possible suggestions. The final decision on whether the Barge will be entirely removed or reworked and repurposed for another role will be made afterwards.
RE: Discussion: Barge Removal - Gypsie Skripto - 09-02-2014
I still think that the arguments that state that Barges are "unhealthy for the mod" are weak, if not utterly invalid. Barges are fun. Some don't want Player Owned Bases, some just want a Barge.
The only thing I find OP about a barge is that if one has one or two barges full of PoB regens docked in a base, a siege becomes more difficult. This can be easily fixed by not letting barges to dock in PoB as long as a declaration of attack is in place.
RE: Discussion: Barge Removal - Emile - 09-02-2014
I believe the bases should be removed. The player owned, it gives too much problems and barges we can destroy within a reasonable time and have fun with. Give it some jumpdrive so it can jump itself as some mobile base to other systems, but that it will take very long time to do. Give it to the people who want it or for factions to use as mobile station were the pirates can target it to blow it up.
And what mojo say, i think these ships should not be able to dock on a player owned base in the first place.
RE: Discussion: Barge Removal - Rebirth - 09-02-2014
The community is divided into 2 different opinions, some want to get it removed, however some that have a barge already, would do everything not to lose it. Cuz, however it has still a worth. And, not only besides on Sirius Credits. The Barge also has many Roleplay potential, it's just sad that removing an oldie is even landing on your table's, though.
The Barge will help us remind, how the good old times were, without PoB's, what the factions have done back this date, to store and do various else stuff. Hey, they've used it for roleplay, there are guys, that have many hours of Roleplay already done in a Barge. If that's not evidence enough, that this ship has already proven more than enough times that it is useful for the community in many ways I dunno.
Hey, if some people are Jumping with it, why do you care? Do you honestly think there will be ever 50 Barges around and a Pirate will go out without any cash? Well.. even though Jumping with the Barge isn't easy anyway you need to be at least 2 people. RP is restricting it in some ways, houses are keep saying that they want no foreign cap ships within their ZoI. So how do you Jump a Barge between 2 Houses if you need to switch the Battleship while Jumping? So, if it has the ability to jump or not says nothing about the ship itself. The dudes who use it, about them these actions do say something.
People that Jump with Barges might not have the time, to build a base? Or just don't have the Patience, but the spare credits? Why don't you let them be. It's the Game mechanics you made possible for those people.
But hey, there are people out there, that want a Barge for RP purposes.
But be warned, removing the Barge will not only remove the ability to mass jump cargo, no it would remove with the same step also the ability to do any further roleplay with this ship, also there will be atleast 25 % of the community who won't like that. But tbh, I don't care. It's your decision at all to do it or not, you've just asked for our mind about that idea here it was.
RE: Discussion: Barge Removal - Tunicle - 09-02-2014
Ok, this is an important thread, we trust you can be constructive, civil and on topic or the post goes into hiding - Tunicle
RE: Discussion: Barge Removal - The.Outlaw.Star - 09-02-2014
This is the best idea ever removing the barge! i love it!
it will be missed but seems like a balanced thing to do with new PoB and stuff as explained above.
*HUGE SMILE
RE: Discussion: Barge Removal - Sciamach - 09-02-2014
Here's an idea: Make them fit their actual purpose of being "Mothership-esque" vessels and be able to carry more docking modules
Or give them a specialized DM slot that allows the docking of gunboats or maybe even small cruisers.
Think of it in terms of a Mothership/Flagship from Homeworld: Large, tank-ish vessels that everything else in the fleet revolves around and protects. It can't fight on its own, but it can certainly build plenty of smaller ships to do the fighting.
Basically: Make it a super-carrier, possibly with its own ways of producing things like docking mods or something
then balance it by ripping the shield off. Because why not.
RE: Discussion: Barge Removal - Rebirth - 09-02-2014
(09-02-2014, 09:29 PM)Scourgeclaw Wrote: Here's an idea: Make them fit their actual purpose of being "Mothership-esque" vessels and be able to carry more docking modules
Or give them a specialized DM slot that allows the docking of gunboats or maybe even small cruisers.
Think of it in terms of a Mothership/Flagship from Homeworld: Large, tank-ish vessels that everything else in the fleet revolves around and protects. It can't fight on its own, but it can certainly build plenty of smaller ships to do the fighting.
Basically: Make it a super-carrier, possibly with its own ways of producing things like docking mods or something
then balance it by ripping the shield off. Because why not.
Ripping it's shield down would be bad, as the NPC's will just be trollish to it. It is just slow. So it wouldn't be a good idea removing it's only defense (as those turrets are not an real defense over all this mass of hull).
However, the docking module idea I do like. Making something like an flagship out of it, but it would not fill it's purpose. The Barge is a Huge Mobile Base. It should have enough Cargo Space, to be in law with the RP purpose. And adding more Docking Modules would change nothing, as you don't need to have them mounted, so cargo space still remains, so people will still Jump.
RE: Discussion: Barge Removal - St.Denis - 09-02-2014
(09-02-2014, 09:14 PM)Dr.VanVanMojo Wrote: The only thing I find OP about a barge is that if one has one or two barges full of PoB regens docked in a base, a siege becomes more difficult. This can be easily fixed by not letting barges to dock in PoB as long as a declaration of attack is in place.
The ability to have 1 or 2 Barges sat on a Base full of repair Materials has no effect, as such, on a Base Siege. If you have a Core 4 Base with all 3 Repair Materials being sieged by 10 BSs with 3 Cerberus each then the Base will last a approximately 1.5 hours. In this time the Base would have used 2160 each of Reinforced Alloy, Robotic Hardware and Hull Segments. This would take up a sum total of 8640 cargo space.
But getting back to the original question. I don't have any Barges so I am neutral to the whether they stay or go.
Quote:The Barge was added as the early version of "player base", to act as a flyable HQ.
This possibly is still an option. What if we allowed multiple Docking Bays on it to allow it to carry Multiple Fighters/Bombers? They possibly could allow these and GBs dock on them to allow for repairs etc.
The Barge would probably need an upgrade in Speed and Armour to allow it to act in this kind of role. Allow it to have a longer range Scanner so it could act as Command Post. If the Hold was reduced so t couldn't carry a huge amount of Cargo then the possibility of it being able to mount a cloak. It would give an larger opportunity for RP.
It is just an idea that I have thought as a possibility as I have said I don't have a preference of whether they stay of go.
Edit: It appears I was beaten to it by Scourgeclaw
.
RE: Discussion: Barge Removal - Rebirth - 09-02-2014
(09-02-2014, 09:34 PM)St.Denis Wrote: This possibly is still an option. What if we allowed multiple Docking Bays on it to allow it to carry Multiple Fighters/Bombers? They possibly could allow these and GBs dock on them to allow for repairs etc.
The Barge would probably need an upgrade in Speed and Armour to allow it to act in this kind of role. Allow it to have a longer range Scanner so it could act as Command Post. If the Hold was reduced so t couldn't carry a huge amount of Cargo then the possibility of it being able to mount a cloak. It would give an larger opportunity for RP.
Nah, we would have the same problem as we just have now. It would again be divided in two opinions, some would think it's too op. And some would like it. Even if just used for RP, I honestly believe it would be OP. Imagine, a Ship that is like you described (Can carry 4 GB's, Cloak, CAU 8, increased scanner), and raids a system. Even just for a SRP ship it's a bit OP don't you think so. It would be just *flash* *snip* *flash*. It is a nice idea though, but the origin purpose of the ship was stated good as it was.