+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: The Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Flood (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+--- Thread: Battles that changed and influenced our history. (/showthread.php?tid=121637)
Battles that changed and influenced our history. - Fluffyball - 10-12-2014
So, here are the battles that with different outcome would shape a way different world we know today. I am sorry in advance that I might pick up Chinese and Japanese battles, but those have been my favourite periods: Three Kingdoms Period in China; Warring States in Japan aka Sengoku Jidai.
Battle of Red Cliffs - Winter 208-209 AD
Also known as Battle of Chibi. It was a battle fought between three greatest commanders at the time: Cao Cao (read as Tsao Tsao) against Liu Bei and Sun Quan. Being mainly planned as a naval battle, Cao Cao, under Emperor's (in fact under his influence) orders, was to fight out "rebellion". He have gathered the biggest naval fleet that China ever have seen, yet due to ploy of two generals from Shu-Wu camp (Zhuge Liang and Zhao Yun), the fleet has been burned and Cao Cao was forced to withdraw. Cao Cao formed Kingdom (in fact, Empire, as Empires are used by many historians yet Kingdoms are traditional name) of Wei, yet he have not declared himself Emperor of Wei (his son, Cao Pi became such); Liu Bei became Emperor of Shu and Sun Quan declared himself Emperor of Wu. In fact in 250-260s AD all three succumbed to yet another force, known as Jin, who formed factual Jin Dynasty and unified China.
Outcome: Cao Cao ambition to conquer China have stopped; formation of Three Kingdoms (Wei, Wu and Shu) after that.
Different outcome: Provided Cao Cao have won the battle without falling to the ploy, Cao Cao would have no further obstacles to conquer China, after he have slain Sun Family and Liu Bei with his sworn brothers.
Incident at Honno-ji - Summer 1582
Oda Nobunaga was surely one of the most influential people during the Warring States period. Historically, he had control over 33 provinces of 66 historical ones, plentful of allies who either were impressed or were scared, crashed two mighty opponents as Imagawa Clan and Takeda Clan. However, his road for ambition have been cut in half. One of his generals, Akechi Mitsuhide, set his forces against him in Kyoto in the Temple of Honno-ji, where Nobunaga was slain (who killed him however is a neverending debate between historians, leaving at least three different versions). Some researchers of the period points out that Akechi Mitsuhide was simply envy for Nobunaga's page and... well... lover, Mori Ranmaru - to whom Nobunaga given conquered lands, not to Mitsuhide. Both Oda Nobunaga and Mori Ranmaru with his brothers have been slain at Honno-ji.
Outcome: After death of Oda Nobunaga, Akechi Mitsuhide was year after assaulted (and slained) by allied forces containing old allies to the Oda Clan. Later then, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Oda, tried to unify Japan - the latter one achieved his goals, forming Tokugawa Shogunate for almost three centuries.
Different outcome: Oda Nobunaga was man of virtue, ingenious tactitian and opportunist. He restructurised fleet, army (which probably would be a match or even surpass the European ones at the time) and had hunger. There would be possible alliance with either Spain or Portugal, Conquest of Korea would have way different outcome than during later Hideyoshi campaign* and perhaps even China would succumb to the might of the Japan united under Oda Nobunaga. And then...? Who knows.
* Toyotomi Hideyoshi set an invasion on Korea, but due to lacking luck and the same virtue as Nobunaga, 16 Korean ships destroyed invasion fleet containing about 150 (!) Japanese vessels.
RE: Battles that changed and influenced our history. - Eduard - 10-12-2014
I am inclined to believe that those different outcomes wouldn't go far more than Asia. Just my opinion.
Now, to provide my feedback...
The Battle of Waterloo is one you may want to look into. If Napoleon won that, then our own world today might be different ( though I admit, it's more to it than just the battle ).
If Caesar was never to pass Rubicon then the Latin culture and heritage may not have been as widespread as it is now, or maybe the Republic may have stabilized and flourished under a system that may have held even today.
If the Third Reich successfully repelled the D-Day Normandy invasion and thwarted the Allies attempts to set foot on Europe, it may have had the opportunity to divert its forces towards Russia and defeat it ( presumably ). World would had been truly different.
If the American Colonies wouldn't have won the War for Independence then there would be no USA today, the world would have been dominated by the brits economically and politically.
If the Persians won at Marathon, or conquered the Greek states ( to be broader ) then at least East Europe would have at least a noticeable Persian/Zoroastrian heritage. Not to mention greeks and democracy would be demonized and shunned like the plague.
If Carthage won the Punic wars then we would see a slow death of an otherwise expanding Republic ( Rome ). We would have had more heritages coming from Carthage and Rome would have been demonized and shunned like the plague.
If Lincoln would have lost then USA would had been drastically different now.
These are a few more battles that may have changed history.
Looking forward to hear of more c:
'tis just a TL ; DR. Short, summarized ideas.
RE: Battles that changed and influenced our history. - Sciamach - 10-12-2014
Standby plebs, I'm about to video the shit outta you all
[video=youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-wSL4WqUws[/video]
Extra Credits does these history segments to edumicate us simple folk
World War 1 was important as hell
They do a whole 4 part series on the events leading up the first world war, first one is above, the rest can be easily found on their channel
RE: Battles that changed and influenced our history. - Corile - 10-12-2014
Quote:Also known as Battle of Chibi. It was a battle fought between three greatest commanders at the time: Cao Cao (read as Tsao Tsao) against Liu Bei and Sun Quan. Being mainly planned as a naval battle, Cao Cao, under Emperor's (in fact under his influence) orders, was to fight out "rebellion". He have gathered the biggest naval fleet that China ever have seen, yet due to ploy of two generals from Shu-Wu camp (Zhuge Liang and Zhao Yun), the fleet has been burned and Cao Cao was forced to withdraw. Cao Cao formed Kingdom (in fact, Empire, as Empires are used by many historians yet Kingdoms are traditional name) of Wei, yet he have not declared himself Emperor of Wei (his son, Cao Pi became such); Liu Bei became Emperor of Shu and Sun Quan declared himself Emperor of Wu. In fact in 250-260s AD all three succumbed to yet another force, known as Jin, who formed factual Jin Dynasty and unified China.There was a cool strategy game based on that, called Dragon Throne. I used to play it at the time when I didn't have internet connection, yet failed to get through the second mission in every campaign.
RE: Battles that changed and influenced our history. - dirmaster0 - 10-12-2014
(10-12-2014, 08:13 AM)Protégé Wrote:Quote:Also known as Battle of Chibi. It was a battle fought between three greatest commanders at the time: Cao Cao (read as Tsao Tsao) against Liu Bei and Sun Quan. Being mainly planned as a naval battle, Cao Cao, under Emperor's (in fact under his influence) orders, was to fight out "rebellion". He have gathered the biggest naval fleet that China ever have seen, yet due to ploy of two generals from Shu-Wu camp (Zhuge Liang and Zhao Yun), the fleet has been burned and Cao Cao was forced to withdraw. Cao Cao formed Kingdom (in fact, Empire, as Empires are used by many historians yet Kingdoms are traditional name) of Wei, yet he have not declared himself Emperor of Wei (his son, Cao Pi became such); Liu Bei became Emperor of Shu and Sun Quan declared himself Emperor of Wu. In fact in 250-260s AD all three succumbed to yet another force, known as Jin, who formed factual Jin Dynasty and unified China.There was a cool strategy game based on that, called Dragon Throne. I used to play it at the time when I didn't have internet connection, yet failed to get through the second mission in every campaign.
I played Dragon Throne too, as well as Dynasty Warriors, both taught me a lot about The Romance of the Three Kingdoms (a book about these events).
RE: Battles that changed and influenced our history. - Fluffyball - 10-12-2014
(10-12-2014, 01:36 AM)Eduard Wrote: I am inclined to believe that those different outcomes wouldn't go far more than Asia. Just my opinion.
Perhaps yes, perhaps not. But I think doing of Oda Nobunaga (as he would ally with Spain or Portugal) would change "colonization" of Asia and it would be Spanish or Portugal influence there, not English one. He used the Western tacs and weaponry and, as I said before, probably matched or even surpassed Western might.
But, if he had conquered China and Korea, imagine horde of those people armed with Western-based weaponry and knowing such tactics. Why do you think China lost their influence during Colonial era? Because they never "updated" their armies, as, even in 1899, they used only two major armies (Imperial Army and Northern Army), having nothing else.
(10-12-2014, 08:34 AM)dirmaster0 Wrote: I played Dragon Throne too, as well as Dynasty Warriors, both taught me a lot about The Romance of the Three Kingdoms (a book about these events).
Kessen, Samurai Warriors 2 (+ Nobunaga's Ambition) and ROTK8 aside with Dynasty Warriors 4, now 7 made me interested into those two period in Japan and China. However, I love how both DW and ROTK series usually now has a HUGE DATABASE, and by HUGE I mean HUGE, about what "really" happened - because ROTK as book is somekind fictionalized (Liu Bei, Zhang Fei and Guan Yu NEVER fought with Lu Bu at Hulao Gate, as they were busy with remnants of Yellow Turbans - that scene is based on the novel).
But I like how the games inspired me to dig on what happened really, despite kinda fictional spirit of the games (as game is mostly inspired by novel, yet Dynasty Warriors 7 has database, as I said before, about real events and persons - more that 200 people - with even adnotations if character was real, fictionalized or purely fictional.
It's a pity that the newest ROTK and Nobunaga's Ambition games are not that available to Europe and even to USA.
RE: Battles that changed and influenced our history. - SMGSterlin - 10-12-2014
2Srs4Flood
RE: Battles that changed and influenced our history. - Fluffyball - 10-12-2014
Quote:If Lincoln would have lost then USA would had been drastically different now.One thing on this one. I know U.S. Americans may scream at me, but I believe Lincoln would keep slavery (instead of abolition), if it was crucial and needed for unity of United States. This is how I was taught (and even discussion took place on that) at university on American History and Culture classes.
Quote:The Battle of Waterloo is one you may want to look into. If Napoleon won that, then our own world today might be different ( though I admit, it's more to it than just the battle).Napoleon Bonaparte did not take charge of his forces during this battle. It's a myth that he "haven't seen one dale during battle". In real, he was temporarly ill and he never make it to the front. His generals however faked the letters to make soldiers believe that their leader is with them. So, if he wasn't ill... ...we would speak French now (and unlike tradition says, majority of Poles NEVER liked Bonapate, as he was a historical figure very similiar to that one guy from Germany in 1930s, killing and murdering minorities).
RE: Battles that changed and influenced our history. - moebus - 10-12-2014
I've got two in mind:
1) The battle of Santa Clara during Cuba Revolution (December 1958).
If I am correct, the rebel troops (Castro, Guevara and Cienfuegos) captured an armoured train full of weapons and munitions making them suddenly more powerful from a military perspective than the governmental army (Batista).
2) Battle of Stalingrad during World War 2 (1942-43)
I don't know very much about the details, but I remember from school it was one of the first major battles where the 3rd Reich army was defeated. So basically, it gave at least some hope to the allies even if the price was high.
RE: Battles that changed and influenced our history. - Highland Laddie - 10-12-2014
If Charles Martel had not stopped the Muslim Caliphate advance into France at the Battle of Tours, then it's quite possible that Europe would be predominantly Muslim.
If the European allied powers had not defeated Attilla the Hun at the Battle of Chalons, then Medieval history could have been flung wide open with possibility.
Battle of Marathon definitely has to rank up there amongst the most historically significant, at least for Western culture.