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+------ Thread: Admin Feedback Thread (Archived) (/showthread.php?tid=128086)
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RE: Admin Feedback Thread - Miaou - 04-05-2015
If you want to ask for feedback then I'll give it to you.
I think the idea of a feedback thread is bad. Not only is it going to give you a headache, but it directly gives people an outlet to complain directly. I can understand why you want to do this but I don't think it'll solve anything. Everything that is wrong with the staff is or should already be known to them. Unless the purpose of the thread is to point people at it and have it as a suggestion box covering over a trashcan (Which wouldn't be a bad idea) then there really is no point.
Don't make the community into a democracy. The more and more it heads that way the worse things get. For the most part, people see your decisions on different subjects and agree with it or put up with it. That's good.
While I say don't make it a democracy, not having transparency is also bad. I enjoy that each major decision from the admins normally has a feedback thread somewhere where people can point out problems or minor breaks in those choices.
RE: Admin Feedback Thread - Zen_Mechanics - 04-05-2015
It is being rejected because of taboo, and the quality of my role-play is sufficient, nay beyond sufficient - are we argueing if im better or less better then others who come before me? I role-play my character very well and ive been told always to lower my demands because of the zoner id - Because some of you don't like zoners, I've seen shorter srps being approved but me? No.. So I don't have big brothers and i prefer role-playing with people that I already know and I don't inject imaginery friends through skype to assist me - because im better then that - so I'm supposed to work above the system to be good enough? I'm sorry, Regardless of the srp I'll be doing whatever i have to - to continue my role-play, not yours - mine - And if you really do have an issue with my role-play then you can either stay put and do nothing and let me do my own thing - or you can continue and supress my role-play. I don't really care anymore, You have done it to death - And you will be at fault for not giving me the tools to enhance my experience and let that be a reminder for you the next time any of you attempts to lecture me about what zoners can or what they can't do. You don't allow me to leave the zoner ID, Just keep that in mind.
RE: Admin Feedback Thread - jammi - 04-05-2015
rofl
This is exactly why I said public SRP feedback was a terrible idea. My thanks for giving me a case example, Zen. In any case, the OP says this isn't for discussing specific cases but providing general feedback / suggestions.
Honestly, I think using this as a suggestion/feature request is a good idea. The request for a "clarification library" (FAQ format pl0x) is a really good example of doin' it right.
RE: Admin Feedback Thread - Alestone - 04-05-2015
(04-05-2015, 01:53 PM)jammi Wrote: Honestly, overburdening them with requests for transparency in cases where it'll only upset people when the same function could easily be replicated in a better format elsewhere strikes me as a bit pointless. Similarly, I'd rather have an admin team that was effective and robust than one that was constantly auditing itself for the gratification of onlookers, slowing it down and probably only serving to increase criticism of the team (and burnout).
I could pick this apart as I see at least five separate issues in this one paragraph, but I will settle for the two most, in my opinion, critical points.
First, if you aren't willing to accept criticism, don't ask for feedback. Criticism is not an inherently negative term unless you perceive it that way.
Second, and more importantly, when you tell people that you, as the management, find them a burden and that they are pointless, don't be surprised when that attitude causes upset and discord in various forms.
The players are not an interruption of the admins' work, they are sole purpose of that work. Distancing the player base from the mod, be that the Admins, the Devs or the Official Factions only presents an Us and Them appearance. If people do not feel that the Admin team are sufficiently trustworthy, you will not retain them as players. That perception, whether it is correct or not, will encourage people to look for other venues.
RE: Admin Feedback Thread - aerelm - 04-05-2015
(04-05-2015, 05:38 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: It is being rejected because of taboo, and the quality of my role-play is sufficient
This is somewhat off-topic for the subject of this thread, but since you brought it up, here's some food for thought:
Maybe your requests weren't rejected "because of taboo, despite having sufficient roleplay", but were actually rejected because "your roleplay was not actually sufficient for breaking those taboos". There are a handful of SRPs, mostly older ones, which in one way or another broke a "taboo" in their own time with exceptional effort and originality put into them. I've peaked through the backlog of SRP subforum a good few times, and here's one key aspect I've noticed they all share, which your requests have lacked so far: I don't recall any of those SRPs getting the green stamp on their first attempt, and were actually considerably readjusted or even redone for the next repost(s), which clearly shows the players behind those SRPs did not hold to the assumption that their roleplay was sufficient and the only reason they didn't get their approval was because "admins hated them, their faction and their roleplay". That's while of the dozen or so requests you've posted, they've all essentially been a rewrite of the same approach with no actual adjustments made to the direction of the request, and simply the same direction pushed forward through the course of two years or so you've been trying to get a SRP.
Now, if you had actually looked at your own request objectively after the first denial, and had actually taken the input you received into account rather than entirely dismissing it based on assumptions of "hate" and whatnot... Who knows, maybe you could've gotten that Umbrage and played it long enough to get bored of it and drop it before it was even removed from the mod.
Just sayin.
RE: Admin Feedback Thread - tothebonezone - 04-05-2015
In this thread, Tel-Aviv continues to believe there's a conspiracy against him, despite his continued presence here on the forums.
I don't have any feedback to offer at this time, as my contribution to the community has dwindled back down to near-nothing.
Bob is great, praise Bob.
RE: Admin Feedback Thread - Hawk - 04-05-2015
(04-05-2015, 07:03 AM)Jinx Wrote: Sometimes sanctions seem to satisfy a sort of frustration or vengeance rather than acting as a means to better the community.
This is actually good feedback, and I will definitely put some thought into this. One of things I have not forgotten is that as a new player I learned a great deal from the sanction threads. I used to read them every day and it actually kept me out of trouble. I learned very quickly what not to do. I'm trying to keep some of that in what I write, although I realize I can get a bit flippant at times.
RE: Admin Feedback Thread - jammi - 04-06-2015
(04-05-2015, 06:02 PM)Chance Wrote: First, if you aren't willing to accept criticism, don't ask for feedback. Criticism is not an inherently negative term unless you perceive it that way.In this case, context is very important. I'm not suggesting they shouldn't listen to or accept criticism; far from it - I think this thread is a good idea and could potentially serve its purpose well. What I was talking about was a bit of a silly proposal asking for further elaboration on the nitty gritty of individual sanctions. All that leads to is an exacerbation of the discomfort the recipient of the notice feels, seeing as they're being further publicly shamed.
Second, and more importantly, when you tell people that you, as the management, find them a burden and that they are pointless, don't be surprised when that attitude causes upset and discord in various forms.
As I said before, anyone who's received a notice who actually wants to engage with the admin team to get a better understanding of what they did wrong will receive that explanation via PM 100% of the time. Ask and ye shall receive. Also the reason said recipient is allowed to request the evidence that was used to make a decision on the case.
As was also earlier raised in this thread, an anonymised clarification thread where examples of ambiguously bad behaviour could be given would be far better. I simply don't think people should be called out in front of the entire forum so the majority of folks can get their rocks off snickering from the sidelines. Pointless refers to that specific idea, not you as a person, my good sir/ma'am.
(04-05-2015, 06:02 PM)Chance Wrote: The players are not an interruption of the admins' work, they are sole purpose of that work. Distancing the player base from the mod, be that the Admins, the Devs or the Official Factions only presents an Us and Them appearance. If people do not feel that the Admin team are sufficiently trustworthy, you will not retain them as players. That perception, whether it is correct or not, will encourage people to look for other venues.Funnily enough, I've never made that point, explicitly or implicitly. I get that it's more fun to address the arguments you wish someone had made than the ones they actually did, but it's slightly disingenuous to do so while you're quoting their post. Admins are there to serve the community, I fully agree. What I disagree with is the idea that the community is best served by admins being hamstrung by having to write a short novel in relation to every sanction notice. Transparency can go too far, and that's when efficiency is choked by bureaucracy.
Maintaining the community's trust in the admin team is very important though, I do very much agree. As you've said, if people feel the admins are tyrannical doo-doo faces, then they will leave. Having a public place to raise concerns and suggest feedback is a good way maintaining - or at least gauging - that trust (almost like this thread), as is ensuring there is a code of conduct and standard of behaviour that must be met (which does exist). Having a robust appeals procedure is also extremely beneficial, where decisions can be scrutinised (like player requests and sanction/ban appeals).
I'm also puzzled as to how players are being distanced from either of the three groups you mentioned (although I'd be leery of grouping factions in the same venn diagram as devs or admins - the latter two need some form of merit to be involved, while any old muppet can lead a faction through some combination of enthusiasm, lack of candidates or luck. I mean, I once ended up with Bowex so it can't be that hard!).
The devs maintain blogs to keep people abreast of their work and occasionally run public consultations on ideas. The current iteration of the admin team is by far the least autocratic one I've seen yet, and has been more willing to take on feedback than any of its predecessors. If they implemented a few of the suggestions here, I'd be pretty damn happy on the whole. As for the factions, there are now indy IDs for all(?) of the previously exclusive groups. Despite any griping from their side, elitism has been dealt a fairly nasty blow. Compared to ages past, if players were any closer to the mod, they'd have their foreheads lodged in its colon.
I'm just saiyan'.
RE: Admin Feedback Thread - Panzer - 04-06-2015
Admin work steals time and attention away from actually playing the game.
Get the devs to turn ever more server rules into game mechanics. reduce workload.
RE: Admin Feedback Thread - Lythrilux - 04-06-2015
What do the admins think about the Order fr5? Do they know that on top of it being unjust, it's actually had a negative impact on the activity of both Order| and their indies? Do they understand that this has a knock on effect to other factions in the Edge Worlds?
Personally, I think Zoner FR5s should not be given so freely; imo they shouldn't exist at all. They bear far too many ooRP consequences and don't make sense from an RP perspective either.