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+--- Thread: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF (/showthread.php?tid=130647)
Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - Alley - 06-16-2015
We have announced the Independent Pirate IFF in the patch notes.
Question 1: Should the IFF be forced on Pirate ID players?
Question 2: Should Pirate ID players be allowed to bear the Freelancer IFF now that this is implemented?
Please note that we are also considering adding another generic unlawful IFF named Outlaw, for players that are unlawfuls but not pirates.
RE: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - FynnMcScrap - 06-16-2015
As IFF mainly governs where to land / dock , and what NPC´s shoot you,
and as the IFF tends to get messed up early enough I would not force the change.
Sure, if have a reason to rephack a player it is a possible tool, but I would not force-change the whole ID without a specific reason.
THX for the Poll ;-)
RE: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - nOmnomnOm - 06-16-2015
(06-16-2015, 02:14 PM)Alley Wrote: We have announced the Independent Pirate IFF in the patch notes.
Question 1: Should the IFF be forced on Pirate ID players?
Question 2: Should Pirate ID players be allowed to bear the Freelancer IFF now that this is implemented?
Please note that we are also considering adding another generic unlawful IFF named Outlaw, for players that are unlawfuls but not pirates.
What is the reason for them to be forced? Non that I can see.
And outlaw? ... err.... why exactly?
RE: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - Alley - 06-16-2015
(06-16-2015, 02:25 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: What is the reason for them to be forced? Non that I can see.
And outlaw? ... err.... why exactly?
The reason this has been added is due to the constant abuse of the Freelancer IFF by numerous Pirate ID players. What we're not sure of is whether or not to force it on all Pirate ID players, as there are some people that genuinely play well using the Freelancer/others IFFs. This is meant to define the Pirate ID as it should be and not to be a sanction, that's where things become tricky.
Outlaw IFF is something we've been discussing, it would be the generic unlawful version of the Freelancer IFF as we do not want to shove all indie unlawfuls under the Indie Pirate IFF.
RE: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - SnakeLancerHaven - 06-16-2015
Pirate IFF, finaly. This gonna be guud : ) awesim. Guys srsly, this will be more interesting with Pirate IFF. Finaly an IFF to be feared by Traders and actually provide with nice interaction.
RE: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - Deeceem - 06-16-2015
(06-16-2015, 02:28 PM)Alley Wrote: The reason this has been added is due to the constant abuse of the Freelancer IFF by numerous Pirate ID players. What we're not sure of is whether or not to force it on all Pirate ID players, as there are some people that genuinely play well using the Freelancer/others IFFs. This is meant to define the Pirate ID as it should be and not to be a sanction, that's where things become tricky.
Just to understand this right... isn't that behaviour possible with ANY ID? Say Outcast ID and Freelancer IFF? Is every IFF/ID combo forced except the Pirate ID? I'm genuinly interested, since I don't know the answer.
If every other IFF is forced by the ID, sure force it for the Pirate ID as well, if needed. If it isn't, why exactly is this only discussed about Pirates specifically instead of for every ID/IFF, since it is abusable by everyone, not only Pirates?
About the topic itself. I don't see why it should be forced? For one it nerfs Pirates even more indirectly since it limits, who they can assist even more, making them sitting ducks even more to trolling lawfuls.
Also I think, considering the Pirate ID is the only unlawful generic ID (openly available), people should have at least the freedom to choose their IFF according to their roleplay. People use the Pirate ID often as unlawful ID, since there is no other more fitting option. Also if you plan to implement said Outlaw IFF... what would be the point of it, if Pirate ID'd ships couldnt choose it - more options for Freelancers?
RE: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - Alley - 06-16-2015
(06-16-2015, 02:38 PM)Deeceem Wrote: Just to understand this right... isn't that behaviour possible with ANY ID? Say Outcast ID and Freelancer IFF? Is every IFF/ID combo forced except the Pirate ID? I'm genuinly interested, since I don't know the answer.
If every other IFF is forced by the ID, sure force it for the Pirate ID as well, if needed. If it isn't, why exactly is this only discussed about Pirates specifically instead of for every ID/IFF, since it is abusable by everyone, not only Pirates?
About the topic itself. I don't see why it should be forced? For one it nerfs Pirates even more indirectly since it limits, who they can assist even more, making them sitting ducks even more to trolling lawfuls.
Also I think, considering the Pirate ID is the only unlawful generic ID (openly available), people should have at least the freedom to choose their IFF according to their roleplay. People use the Pirate ID often as unlawful ID, since there is no other more fitting option. Also if you plan to implement said Outlaw IFF... what would be the point of it, if Pirate ID'd ships couldnt choose it - more options for Freelancers?
You bring up a good point. The IFF isn't specifically forced on faction IDs, but you have no reason to do otherwise. Do you see a rogue with Freelancer IFF, or a LN with Freelancer IFF? (as in, outside of newbies)
No, because it doesn't make any sense, and it's why the restart automatically provides the correct IFF.
Generic IDs are where this becomes tricky, because what you define yourself as is entirely up to you and you're expected not to abuse that freedom of choice.
I do believe forcing the Pirate IFF on the Pirate ID is something that must be done, however as you pointed out there is no alternative for unlawful players. Providing a generic unlawful ID could what we should do prior to forcing the IFF on the Pirate ID if we roll with that, but how is that different from providing an option to bear an unlawful IFF on the Freelancer ID?
RE: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - Fluffyball - 06-16-2015
I'm against that, alongside with a few people. Why? Pirate ID is already pretty restricted (generic stuff only, no access to anything bigger than gunboat) and Freelancer IFF is the only advantage of Pirate ID - as we believe that as a fair trade for "undetectable" ship, unless scanned (not a problem for ANY ship).
I'm telling you this: if someone was to choose between Pirate ID and Outcast ID, he or she would pick up Outcasts ID, because it sacrifices only Rheinland and gives way more options than Pirate ID in Sirius-wide piracy. You also shouldn't forget that Pirate ID clearly states that it can protect same-IFF ships and bases - without that, line will be void rulewise.
In short: forcing Pirate IFF will make that ID dead. If you are going to force IFF, allow pirates to pirate freely everywhere as it was before, without silly artificial restrictions.
You may end up limiting Outcast ID in the future, just saying.
RE: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - Alley - 06-16-2015
(06-16-2015, 02:50 PM)Fluffyball Wrote: I'm against that, alongside with very few people. Why? Pirate ID is already pretty restricted (generic stuff only) and Freelancer IFF is the only advantage of Pirate ID - as we said that as a fair trade for "undetectable" ship, unless scanned.
I'm telling you this: if someone was to choose between Pirate ID and Outcast ID, he or she would pick up Outcasts ID, because it sacrifices only Rheinland and gives way more options than Pirate ID in Sirius-wide piracy. You also shouldn't forget that Pirate ID clearly states that it can protect same-IFF ships and bases.
In short: forcing Pirate IFF will make that ID dead. If you are going to force IFF, allow pirates to pirate freely everywhere as it was before, without silly artificial restrictions.
You may end up limiting Outcast ID in the future, just saying.
I'm pretty sure there would be an ID rework if the IFF was forced on the Pirate ID. We could also provide a few Indie Pirate bases in sirius, but that sounds a little bit redundant as they can just dock on Freelancer bases.
RE: Poll: Independent Pirate IFF - Deeceem - 06-16-2015
(06-16-2015, 02:49 PM)Alley Wrote: You bring up a good point. The IFF isn't specifically forced on faction IDs, but you have no reason to do otherwise. Do you see a rogue with Freelancer IFF, or a LN with Freelancer IFF? (as in, outside of newbies)
No, because it doesn't make any sense, and it's why the restart automatically provides the correct IFF.
Generic IDs are where this becomes tricky, because what you define yourself as is entirely up to you and you're expected not to abuse that freedom of choice.
I do believe forcing the Pirate IFF on the Pirate ID is something that must be done, however as you pointed out there is no alternative for unlawful players. Providing a generic unlawful ID could what we should do prior to forcing the IFF on the Pirate ID if we roll with that, but how is that different from providing an option to bear an unlawful IFF on the Freelancer ID?
Mhm, interesting. I think just because noone has done it to an extend that it got discussed yet, it should still be something to note down for the future to force every ID/IFF combo then to prevent such abuse.
I think I still have to go with "No, don't force it." after your post. For one I still think giving Pirate ID'd players, who don't abuse it, the option to choose accordingly to their roleplay is more important for me personally and the integrity of people's already existing roleplay than protecting people, who think every Freelancer IFF ship is automatically their friend instead of a pirate or bounty hunter.
And secondly there are too many not clarified variables. What would the mentioned Unlawful ID be exactly, what would it allow, what not? Is the Outlaw IFF coming, is it not? And so on. Too much vague information for me to approve it without doubt for me personally (not that my personal approval matters though).