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+--- Thread: Zoners - why they do exist? (/showthread.php?tid=133398)
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Jack_Henderson - 11-29-2015
+1 to everything Spazzy wrote.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - |nfrared - 11-29-2015
Tune in next week when this whole thread happens again, with every instance of the word Zoner replaced by Junker.
But to give the OP a clue, the real reason no one has attempted to outlaw Zoners is that it would "ruin" some people's factions, and attempting to do it inRP, well I'll just point at the big mess that was Liberty's attempt to lawsuit Junkers into hostility.
To make it short - If the players don't want it, it won't happen and don't try to use logic to apply "realism" to an illogical game.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - The Savage - 11-30-2015
I disagree with Junkers here, Infra. Why? Simply, Junkers are an actual faction with backstory and their feud with Hogosha. They both are like Russian Mafia alongside with Yakuza.
But then, we have Zoners, who tend to be... it's not even a loose federation. To be honest, I only use Zoner ID for one purpose - calm roleplay outside House Space, instead of being pirated X times as Freelancer in a freighter with roleplay cargo.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Thyrzul - 11-30-2015
I have just noticed that Spaz kinda ninjad me, so I'll respond to one of his points I find a bit problematic.
Freeports being far is nice and cool and I could accept it as an excuse for houses on why not to patrol around and secure the area, but in case of Freeports lying in between houses it just doesn't seem to hold it's ground. Freeports may be far but if they are in between the houses, that means the houses themselves are even further from eachother, then here comes that houses are obviously interested in commerce between eachother, and because of this also in maintaining a somewhat decent protection of trade routes. Because of this I firmly believe one could rightfully expect lawful control over trade lanes directly connecting the houses (at least in one case if there are mutliple routes, here I'm thinking of the independent systems between Liberty and it's neighbors).
The above would mean that - aside from Bethlehem and FP14 - Ames, FP1, FP2, and FP6 would also have higher (than usual) chances of meeting lawful patrols occasionally checking the nearby lanes, while Corfu, FP5, FP9, and every Zoner installation in O49, O74 and Baffin would be more left alone by the houses. That's just four Zoner stations the houses would still care about because they are in the way to other houses. And I say they care at least that much, for reasons I explained above.
Freeports being far is nice and cool and I could accept it as an excuse for houses on why not to patrol around and secure the area, but in case of Freeports lying in between houses it just doesn't seem to hold it's ground. Freeports may be far but if they are in between the houses, that means the houses themselves are even further from eachother, then here comes that houses are obviously interested in commerce between eachother, and because of this also in maintaining a somewhat decent protection of trade routes. Because of this I firmly believe one could rightfully expect lawful control over trade lanes directly connecting the houses (at least in one case if there are mutliple routes, here I'm thinking of the independent systems between Liberty and it's neighbors).
The above would mean that - aside from Bethlehem and FP14 - Ames, FP1, FP2, and FP6 would also have higher (than usual) chances of meeting lawful patrols occasionally checking the nearby lanes, while Corfu, FP5, FP9, and every Zoner installation in O49, O74 and Baffin would be more left alone by the houses. That's just four Zoner stations the houses would still care about because they are in the way to other houses. And I say they care at least that much, for reasons I explained above.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - |nfrared - 11-30-2015
(11-30-2015, 12:12 AM)FluffReborn Wrote: I disagree with Junkers here, Infra. Why? Simply, Junkers are an actual faction with backstory and their feud with Hogosha.
But then, we have Zoners, who tend to be... it's not even a loose federation.
I was referring to your point in the OP about Zoners helping criminals on a daily basis. The comparison is apt.
You need to understand there are more than inRP factors driving the factions here. Players guard them jealously as they have many hours of RP and lore written on the forums. A change such as making Zoners hostile to certain houses, well, here's my tears cup. I think Spock sums it up best -
![[Image: 6aa028ca-a080-415c-b880-48ce52d799c8_zpsyj2csvyv.jpg]](http://i1033.photobucket.com/albums/a419/nexus0404/6aa028ca-a080-415c-b880-48ce52d799c8_zpsyj2csvyv.jpg)
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - The Savage - 11-30-2015
Does anyone realize I was not refering to the in-game mechanics? I was asking about the sociopolitical reasons behind existence of Zoners, in an sci-fi universe if Freelancer was e.g. like a book, not to the game - all in all. This topic was NOT meant as a Zonerzonerzoner drama in the first place, as it was stated in the OP.
@|nfrared I think the difference between Zoners and Junkers is that Junkers at least hide their bases in quite unwelcome and well-hidden regions - hence they are more logical places for criminals. Zoners place their bases on trade routes where house authority can easily reach via tradelanes. That is what initially ignited my question, because e.g. Ames Research Statiom seems to be a hub between Kusari and Liberty, but at the very same moment they are right at the trade route, in a rather crowned idea. That's why I do not believe military, in order to make system more safe (if reports about criminal sheltering were true), wouldn't send couple of bombers (most likely LSF, because saboteurs) and bomb the hell out of place.
But then, I think Spazzy hit the problem. +1 Spazzy.
Someone stated that borderworlds are big and unsafe. True, but Zoner bases are usually in pretty connected and relatively safe areas, because of tradelane connection.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - sindroms - 11-30-2015
(11-30-2015, 12:14 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:I have just noticed that Spaz kinda ninjad me, so I'll respond to one of his points I find a bit problematic.
Freeports being far is nice and cool and I could accept it as an excuse for houses on why not to patrol around and secure the area, but in case of Freeports lying in between houses it just doesn't seem to hold it's ground. Freeports may be far but if they are in between the houses, that means the houses themselves are even further from eachother, then here comes that houses are obviously interested in commerce between eachother, and because of this also in maintaining a somewhat decent protection of trade routes. Because of this I firmly believe one could rightfully expect lawful control over trade lanes directly connecting the houses (at least in one case if there are mutliple routes, here I'm thinking of the independent systems between Liberty and it's neighbors).
The above would mean that - aside from Bethlehem and FP14 - Ames, FP1, FP2, and FP6 would also have higher (than usual) chances of meeting lawful patrols occasionally checking the nearby lanes, while Corfu, FP5, FP9, and every Zoner installation in O49, O74 and Baffin would be more left alone by the houses. That's just four Zoner stations the houses would still care about because they are in the way to other houses. And I say they care at least that much, for reasons I explained above.
Indeed, houses would be interested in keeping their commerce safe. Which is why you see so many bounty hunters - a house-neutral faction saturating those places, no doubt paid for to do the work for them without the possibility of between-house conflict. That would be one way to look at it. And of course they use the Freeports as their base of operations, another reason for the houses not to smite them.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - The Savage - 11-30-2015
@sindroms
To be honest, I completely forgot about Bounty Hunters. And now, the idea that popped up in my mind is that BHG doesn't necessairy need to get money from house authorities. They might also accept money for looking into other direction, making Freeports safe as Hunters would simply say "there's no criminal activity around Freeports", counting the money given from a private anonymous source.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - sindroms - 11-30-2015
That and they could also provide protection for the zoners themselves to ensure that nothing shady happens around that would provoke house wraith.
RE: Zoners - why they do exist? - Thyrzul - 11-30-2015
You don't necessarily need bunters to prevent inter-house conflict, all you need is communication and cooperation. Besides that though bunters are not a bad idea.