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+--- Thread: Reinventing the Wild experience (/showthread.php?tid=141787)
Reinventing the Wild experience - Ramke - 08-03-2016
I'm already mentally prepared and 80% sure that this will devolve into arguments that "Wild/nomads are stupid and should be deleted", "they're all PvPwhores anyway whats the point", "infectee players won't even make use of it because they just abuse the terrorist ID rules and ZoI", "deal with it you crybaby" and other respectable well-educated opinions, but I figured I should mention it anyway.
Bear with me. I want to suggest something incredibly radical.
Make a plugin for the Wild ID (and potentially official intelligence faction) players to be able to switch their IFFs to something other than "Unknown".
For example, if I were showing the "Unknown" IFF as a Wild ID'd ship, I could write "/warmth LSF" and I'd have that specific IFF on my character. Optionally, it could make you friendly with the faction in question as well so the stations wouldn't shoot you and ruin your cover. Note that you still couldn't dock, as the ID doesn't allow docking.
I know how ridiculous that sounds to you, but before you start furiously mashing your keyboard buttons attempting to write how I should have never been born, please read my experience that led to this suggestion:
I'm sure everyone knows the reputation that Wild ID players are nearly exclusively PvPers, yes? Do you know why every single person who has joined one of these factions hoping to add a whole new interesting avenue for their character has given up, stopped logging, no longer searched for roleplay and only logged to participate in raids? In fact, this is so widespread that certain official player faction leaders just outright tell their members "they don't roleplay, they came here for blues - throw caps at them and gank".
Nearly every single encounter with a Wild ID begins with the following: "An infectee here? Kill it!" in various shapes and forms of the sentence. There are very, very few encounters that begin with a greeting and saying "Hello, who are you?" - to the point where you'd literally have to swim through a kilometer in the sewers just to find that one nice breath of fresh air. It's damning. It crushes people's motivation. It polarizes them into thinking that you can't find roleplay in that faction tag and ID, unless you're going off-plane with someone you agreed to RP with on Skype beforehand.
My suggestion would eliminate one of the most obvious indicators that someone is an infectee, eliminating the instant possibility to spot one in a crowd of 100 people and the well-known ideology that red is dead. It wouldn't fully eliminate the issue - but it would assist ENORMOUSLY in not getting shot and called out on being infected at a moment's notice. It would help Wild become what they should be - infected people under the guise of innocent-looking tolerably human people, working to disrupt them from the shadows.
The Wild ID is an exception to the blanket statement that all IDs are inRP (last I heard?). You can still clearly guess an infectee by what kind of equipment they are using (but now it would be more dangerous to throw the phrase around, as intel factions use that equipment as well). You can guess an infectee by the tag they are using, which sadly some people take as iRP - there's nothing to do to fix that. But it would eliminate the instadetect option most people take, and maybe make them more open to roleplaying, or at the very least more intent on asking questions instead of dropping an engagement message.
@sindroms came up with this idea, and I echo the thought: It would be absolutely cool if Wild ships could actually have an ID that isn't Wild and they would be bound to that ID's rules and rephacks until they'd write "/warmth nom" and have their original ID/IFF popped back in place. You'd be talking to seemingly normal person, who convinces you to do something or go to somewhere more secluded and go "oh [censored] he has wild ID now" when you're alone and secluded. I've talked to an admin about this though, and they said it was impossible due to the game's limitations. What I'm proposing is possible, open to being abused, but also opening so many opportunities without having your hopes and will crushed in just a few seconds of you appearing within 10k range.
Ofcourse, you can claim you can avoid all of this by just making a freelancer(or appropriate faction ship) and roleplaying as an infectee then. But then come these points:
1) What's the point of having a Wild ID if it's exclusively used for PvP?
2) People will dismiss that RP as lolwutty and you aren't an official wild to be able to do infectee stuff.
3) You won't be able to support the noms in -any possible way- in-game.
4) You won't be able to get faction activity for the faction you are in - possibly leading to losing officialdom.
I mean, this issue should be really evident because the whole Liberty Navy - LSF / Harmony drama was caused because certain players were claiming someone was an infectee because they had a wild ID/IFF, acted completely normal, and had completely normal tech.
All in all, these issues are what keeps Wild from being able to roleplay in-game without a hitch. My suggestion would solve a part of it by eliminating ONE of the core issues.
I'm a major fan of undercover roleplay and was always attempting to do something similar on both Wild and various intelligence factions. They all ended miserably because people instantly dismissed me as what my IFF showed me to be and made the appropriate decision to tell me to die or run away unless I want to die.
RE: Reinventing the Wild experience - sindroms - 08-03-2016
The reason I suggested that is because if there is one thing I hate about the Wild is that the players expect me to ignore every single encounter I've had with their characters for the sake of helping them do their ''I am undercover shhhhh'' roleplay. Even though just the day before they were shooting that same character of mine in the face with that same ship of theirs.
I love the idea of being clueless whether or not this new indie I meet is actually a wild ID in reality, but I would have to ask how will you be tracking your activity if that basically untags all of your characters in the process.
RE: Reinventing the Wild experience - Gunbladelad - 08-03-2016
Some valid points there - perhaps a couple of different Wild IDs would be in order rather than just one. Remember that there's different groups of Wild out there. The Kusari Wild alone for example have two main groups - the openly hostile type and the others who work behind the scenes (such as Tekagi in Freelancer's story mode).
However, I feel such a "Secret Wild" character would only really be believable if they were in a vessel (with relevant equipment) specific to the faction they were infiltrating. In order for the IFF to work no doubt there would need to be a repfix set up for each house setting the characters up as being unable to dock in the relevant house(s) - and short of every single one of these areas getting an area-specific Wild ID the next simplest option would be for them to request a specific SRP for it.
I'm sure adding extra flhook commands could be done for the right reasons, but I can see the likelyhood of this being abused to some degree. I feel such commands, however, would need to check on the ship & loadout to ensure it's "compatible" with the changes being requested in the command.
RE: Reinventing the Wild experience - Hannibal - 08-03-2016
as far as i'm aware you won't be able to unmount id in space(while online) and you can't change IFF either,if someone finds a solution..
as for making the id/faction tag oorp..didn't we had a trial with something similar a while ago,how did that ended ?
RE: Reinventing the Wild experience - Traxit - 08-03-2016
(08-03-2016, 09:40 PM)Hannibal Wrote: as far as i'm aware you won't be able to unmount id in space(while online) and you can't change IFF either,if someone finds a solution..Do it while on your base. Doing it on the fly is kinda overpowered.
RE: Reinventing the Wild experience - Foxglove - 08-03-2016
Wouldn't the simplest solution simply be to give the Wild ID a Freelancer IFF or no IFF and the same rep sheet as /restart BwCivilian or something?
RE: Reinventing the Wild experience - Magnifique - 08-03-2016
(08-03-2016, 09:25 PM)Ramke Wrote: Bear with me. I want to suggest something incredibly radical.
More impractical than radical.
As far as I know its quite easy to make the wilde ID so it shows a RM or LN or KNF IFF, without additional work for the FLhooker(s?).
Since they're kind of invite only or official or what ever its called these days, its also easy to make it a rule violation to dock on lawful bases.
What's even easier is to just use the actual LN ID and RP as infected, lead your unsuspecting victims into traps, and then let the Wilde IDed players massacre them without you actually doing any shooting. God knows this sort of thing happens or happened with all sorts of navy or police IDs anyway already.
Quote:Nearly every single encounter with a Wild ID begins with the following: "An infectee here? Kill it!" in various shapes and forms of the sentence. There are very, very few encounters that begin with a greeting and saying "Hello, who are you?" - to the point where you'd literally have to swim through a kilometer in the sewers just to find that one nice breath of fresh air. It's damning. It crushes people's motivation. It polarizes them into thinking that you can't find roleplay in that faction tag and ID, unless you're going off-plane with someone you agreed to RP with on Skype beforehand.
Not every encounter. I actually pretended to mistake kusari, rm, and LN wild for legit navies in 3 separate encounters, and got //hugs and kisses for it, but afterwards felt like the better RP would acutally have been to shoot them in the face. I also refuse to keep up my appearance of belief that they're totally uninfected if I already saw the same guys shoot lawfuls.
In my opinion, if you're going to use your ID privileges to shoot people, you should also expect to get shot for your ID. Its a sort of "expect to be treated as you treat others / treat others as you expect to be treated" social contract. If you don't wanna get shot, just RP as infected on another ID and don't shoot.
Quote:1) What's the point of having a Wild ID if it's exclusively used for PvP?
PvP is a facet RP, as long as it doesn't violate RP lore. And it's not like they don't do the talking part of RP at all.
Quote:2) People will dismiss that RP as lolwutty and you aren't an official wild to be able to do infectee stuff.
I've seen the best RP been dismissed as lolwuttery by people who had their own head too far up their own rears to understand it. Not a factor for me.
Quote:3) You won't be able to support the noms in -any possible way- in-game.
4) You won't be able to get faction activity for the faction you are in - possibly leading to losing officialdom.
I don't understand why that should be. Can you elaborate?
What I would also like to add is that I don't agree with the notion that wilde are the undercover human arm of the nomad plan. I think originally, wilde were humans that were infected but lost their nomad links due to the actions of Edison Trent (trinket in the hole or what ever that was supposed to ne in the SP campaign).
Also, nomads don't use human hosts exclusively for "infiltration". They also use human minds and bodies for doing tasks that nomads can not do themselves, and that is way more than infiltration. Humans have mental and physical abilities that nomads do not have. Nomads are NOT inheritantly superior to humans in every way, even if some like to RP it that way. The wilde would be the "human brains and arms" of the nomads. Regular-IDed humans RPing as infected would be the infiltrators.
As an alternative, I would recommend that wilde factions be exceptionally permitted to use other IDs in addition to their Wilde ID, while still having to abide to the restrictions to what ever ID they are using.
RE: Reinventing the Wild experience - Ramke - 08-03-2016
(08-03-2016, 10:54 PM)Magnifique Wrote: More impractical than radical.
As far as I know its quite easy to make the wilde ID so it shows a RM or LN or KNF IFF, without additional work for the FLhooker(s?).
Since they're kind of invite only or official or what ever its called these days, its also easy to make it a rule violation to dock on lawful bases.
What's even easier is to just use the actual LN ID and RP as infected, lead your unsuspecting victims into traps, and then let the Wilde IDed players massacre them without you actually doing any shooting. God knows this sort of thing happens or happened with all sorts of navy or police IDs anyway already.
It is quite easy to make that change. It hasn't happened for forever and hopefully this thread would at least give some notice to the people behind it for it.
It can be easier to do that - but then again, you are not playing the faction you want to play. You are playing a faction that doesn't allow you to help your Wild friends, with an infectee character. This is not what this is about.
(08-03-2016, 10:54 PM)Magnifique Wrote: Not every encounter. I actually pretended to mistake kusari, rm, and LN wild for legit navies in 3 separate encounters, and got //hugs and kisses for it, but afterwards felt like the better RP would acutally have been to shoot them in the face. I also refuse to keep up my appearance of belief that they're totally uninfected if I already saw the same guys shoot lawfuls.
In my opinion, if you're going to use your ID privileges to shoot people, you should also expect to get shot for your ID. Its a sort of "expect to be treated as you treat others / treat others as you expect to be treated" social contract. If you don't wanna get shot, just RP as infected on another ID and don't shoot.
This is for the characters that stay in theme and in cover, without breaking their cover unless the situation allows it. Then you're more or less exposed.
I don't think anyone is saying "forget me, I've only shot you 3 times!" here. Naturally, you won't be introducing yourself as a Wild, but the current iteration of Wild ID/IFF don't allow you to introduce yourself as someone else, without the other person blatantly ignoring the "broken nomad IFF" (very few do).
(08-03-2016, 10:54 PM)Magnifique Wrote:Quote:1) What's the point of having a Wild ID if it's exclusively used for PvP?
PvP is a facet RP, as long as it doesn't violate RP lore. And it's not like they don't do the talking part of RP at all.
Focusing on the PvP aspect EXCLUSIVELY is frowned upon, with the exception of Military factions since they don't really have much potential for actual roleplay. Wild do. I'm really upset that such potential is squandered for a petty thing like this that makes every player disillusioned.
(08-03-2016, 10:54 PM)Magnifique Wrote:Quote:2) People will dismiss that RP as lolwutty and you aren't an official wild to be able to do infectee stuff.
I've seen the best RP been dismissed as lolwuttery by people who had their own head too far up their own rears to understand it. Not a factor for me.
That's nice. It is an important factor for me and I'm certain for a lot of other people to actually have the situation seen as a RP encounter instead of "look at this person doing memes lol".
(08-03-2016, 10:54 PM)Magnifique Wrote:Quote:3) You won't be able to support the noms in -any possible way- in-game.
4) You won't be able to get faction activity for the faction you are in - possibly leading to losing officialdom.
I don't understand why that should be. Can you elaborate?
@sindroms just mentioned it. If you want to roleplay your infectee "undercover" the way you won't get instantly shot, you'll have to use an indie with a Freelancer (or other faction) ID. This means no tag, since you can't fly a faction with a different tag than what it uses. This means no activity time, and the faction not passing activity requirements.
You also can't ally yourselves with the Nomad and Wild players, as per ID rules.
(08-03-2016, 10:54 PM)Magnifique Wrote: What I would also like to add is that I don't agree with the notion that wilde are the undercover human arm of the nomad plan. I think originally, wilde were humans that were infected but lost their nomad links due to the actions of Edison Trent (trinket in the hole or what ever that was supposed to ne in the SP campaign).
Also, nomads don't use human hosts exclusively for "infiltration". They also use human minds and bodies for doing tasks that nomads can not do themselves, and that is way more than infiltration. Humans have mental and physical abilities that nomads do not have. Nomads are NOT inheritantly superior to humans in every way, even if some like to RP it that way. The wilde would be the "human brains and arms" of the nomads. Regular-IDed humans RPing as infected would be the infiltrators.
![[Image: 5mT5qVm.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/5mT5qVm.jpg)
Do you even know what are you talking about?
Why are you hiding behind an alt to say this?
(08-03-2016, 10:54 PM)Magnifique Wrote: As an alternative, I would recommend that wilde factions be exceptionally permitted to use other IDs in addition to their Wilde ID, while still having to abide to the restrictions to what ever ID they are using.
This would be a step in the right direction.
tl;dr I'm arguing for the Wild ID to become a roleplay ID alongside a PvP one - not just focusing on exclusively PvP.
Just so people can expect to see more dynamic roleplay more often when they see someone tagged Wilde, D9 and Aoi.
WITHOUT having to create tagless alts just to fly what they are in-RP technically supposed to be.
RE: Reinventing the Wild experience - Foxglove - 08-03-2016
Ramke Wrote:It can be easier to do that - but then again, you are not playing the faction you want to play. You are playing a faction that doesn't allow you to help your Wild friends, with an infectee character. This is not what this is about.
Correct me if I'm wrong: But can't you be hired by a Wild member if you have a Freelancer ID? If so, you could technically assist them in combat, although this would not remove the problem of lost activity that you mentioned. Also: I believe that the intelligence agencies have an ID line that states "can ally with unlawfuls" and since the Wild ID is an unlawful ID, there is literally nothing stopping you from allying with them, as long as the engagement parametres on your ID are met.
RE: Reinventing the Wild experience - Shiki - 08-04-2016
I do quite a bit of Wild roleplay I guess, first of all most of it done with regular faction IDs in game or on the forums. That's not a rule though, from the recent I've managed to have a nice RP out with LPI- in Liberty. My wild repier was cloak disrupted and appared alone surrounded by massive Liberty forces, all I had to do is to bribe LPI- with 10 millions to get me outta there. That actually depends not on the ID or IFF itself, but on the people that you play with. Most are expecting Wild to be aggressive and expecting mostly pvp from them so they attack.
Other thing is, if people are going to RP with you being Wild IDed, those people will likely be looking nomad-worship style of RP. I am not saying that it's bad, but Nomads are pretty much locked on themselves. Basically only people that you can expect mostly normal and more or less stable roleplay are Outcasts. The questing here if -wilds- are interested to have a roleplay with Outcasts.
Recent events in Liberty are proving that Wild ID can be interesting and impactful. Small attempt to do small interesting by @Skorak and me have turned into something that isn't clear yet. It's already ten time more than we hoped for.
Wild ID as pvp oriented as any other ID when you meet a red contacts, problem here is that everything is red. And in actual gameplay situation is turning into a fight. You also don't have a massive RP when you fly let's say GRN ID. I don't honestly think that switch of IFF will stop people from metagaming, since ID scan is a common thing.
So yeah, you can get RP with Wild ID, it can be good and random (which is rare), Outcasts are the case to talk with. Also people who are looking specifically to RP with Wilds for whatever reason, it also a thing and they will find you on their own, usually. My point is the following: Wild ID isn't pvpwhorish, people who meet the Wild ID are pvpwhorish and IFF won't change anything at this point. People will still do their little metagamings.