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+----- Thread: Technocracy of Auxo - Feedback (/showthread.php?tid=142072)
RE: A/) - Feedback - Eurobeat - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 02:37 PM)Alley Wrote: There's one point that's actually quite interesting in Sombra's post.
Unlike all factions, Freelancer based official factions (Aux, AFC, FL-ER) do not currently have any ID ZOI and it should be fixed in order to have consistency across the board. It might not be so problematic for FL-ER as they're still real freelancers, but not quite so for Aux and AFC.
In the case of Auxesia, if the information is correct and your bases are indeed in Inverness and Kansas, that would make your ZOI something around Lib +1 and Bretonia + 1, which I guess would be slightly problematic as you spend a lot of time in the Omicrons.
I might be spewing rubbish here, but if I understand the "primary, secondary and tertiary" ZOI thing correctly, Auxesia could have their primary ZOI in the systems where the bases are and their secondary ZOI in the Omicrons - not sure where the tertiary ZOI would be.
RE: A/) - Feedback - Foxglove - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 02:58 PM)Eurobeat Wrote:(01-16-2017, 02:37 PM)Alley Wrote: There's one point that's actually quite interesting in Sombra's post.
Unlike all factions, Freelancer based official factions (Aux, AFC, FL-ER) do not currently have any ID ZOI and it should be fixed in order to have consistency across the board. It might not be so problematic for FL-ER as they're still real freelancers, but not quite so for Aux and AFC.
In the case of Auxesia, if the information is correct and your bases are indeed in Inverness and Kansas, that would make your ZOI something around Lib +1 and Bretonia + 1, which I guess would be slightly problematic as you spend a lot of time in the Omicrons.
I might be spewing rubbish here, but if I understand the "primary, secondary and tertiary" ZOI thing correctly, Auxesia could have their primary ZOI in the systems where the bases are and their secondary ZOI in the Omicrons - not sure where the tertiary ZOI would be.
Well, how would you implement that for an ID?
RE: A/) - Feedback - WesternPeregrine - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 03:02 PM)Foxglove Wrote:(01-16-2017, 02:58 PM)Eurobeat Wrote:(01-16-2017, 02:37 PM)Alley Wrote: There's one point that's actually quite interesting in Sombra's post.
Unlike all factions, Freelancer based official factions (Aux, AFC, FL-ER) do not currently have any ID ZOI and it should be fixed in order to have consistency across the board. It might not be so problematic for FL-ER as they're still real freelancers, but not quite so for Aux and AFC.
In the case of Auxesia, if the information is correct and your bases are indeed in Inverness and Kansas, that would make your ZOI something around Lib +1 and Bretonia + 1, which I guess would be slightly problematic as you spend a lot of time in the Omicrons.
I might be spewing rubbish here, but if I understand the "primary, secondary and tertiary" ZOI thing correctly, Auxesia could have their primary ZOI in the systems where the bases are and their secondary ZOI in the Omicrons - not sure where the tertiary ZOI would be.
Well, how would you implement that for an ID?
I do believe that tiered zoi is a faction info and rp only thing, and has no bearing on any id mechanics.
Id are ruled by a clearly defined zoi, and by lines that allow things to happen inside said area, or lines that allow stuff to happen "even" outside said area. Otherwise, it may not happen at all.
RE: A/) - Feedback - Eurobeat - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 03:06 PM)WPeregrine Wrote:(01-16-2017, 03:02 PM)Foxglove Wrote:(01-16-2017, 02:58 PM)Eurobeat Wrote:(01-16-2017, 02:37 PM)Alley Wrote: There's one point that's actually quite interesting in Sombra's post.
Unlike all factions, Freelancer based official factions (Aux, AFC, FL-ER) do not currently have any ID ZOI and it should be fixed in order to have consistency across the board. It might not be so problematic for FL-ER as they're still real freelancers, but not quite so for Aux and AFC.
In the case of Auxesia, if the information is correct and your bases are indeed in Inverness and Kansas, that would make your ZOI something around Lib +1 and Bretonia + 1, which I guess would be slightly problematic as you spend a lot of time in the Omicrons.
I might be spewing rubbish here, but if I understand the "primary, secondary and tertiary" ZOI thing correctly, Auxesia could have their primary ZOI in the systems where the bases are and their secondary ZOI in the Omicrons - not sure where the tertiary ZOI would be.
Well, how would you implement that for an ID?
I do believe that tiered zoi is a faction info and rp only thing, and has no bearing on any id mechanics.
Id are ruled by a clearly defined zoi, and by lines that allow things to happen inside said area, or lines that allow stuff to happen "even" outside said area. Otherwise, it may not happen at all.
Ah, in that case, I am stumped :/
RE: A/) - Feedback - Alley - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 02:58 PM)Eurobeat Wrote: I might be spewing rubbish here, but if I understand the "primary, secondary and tertiary" ZOI thing correctly, Auxesia could have their primary ZOI in the systems where the bases are and their secondary ZOI in the Omicrons - not sure where the tertiary ZOI would be.
There is no such thing rulewise, There's ZOI and what's outside of it.
Setting up levels of ZOI is a faction thing looked upon as positive as it generally means factions that do it have a good understanding of the inRP military/movement power and agreements they possess, which territories are dangerous for them inRP etc.
RE: A/) - Feedback - Kauket - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 02:58 PM)Eurobeat Wrote:(01-16-2017, 02:37 PM)Alley Wrote: There's one point that's actually quite interesting in Sombra's post.
Unlike all factions, Freelancer based official factions (Aux, AFC, FL-ER) do not currently have any ID ZOI and it should be fixed in order to have consistency across the board. It might not be so problematic for FL-ER as they're still real freelancers, but not quite so for Aux and AFC.
In the case of Auxesia, if the information is correct and your bases are indeed in Inverness and Kansas, that would make your ZOI something around Lib +1 and Bretonia + 1, which I guess would be slightly problematic as you spend a lot of time in the Omicrons.
I might be spewing rubbish here, but if I understand the "primary, secondary and tertiary" ZOI thing correctly, Auxesia could have their primary ZOI in the systems where the bases are and their secondary ZOI in the Omicrons - not sure where the tertiary ZOI would be.
Nope. Those are operational zones for each group. There's already one group in the Omicrons, which is Algaea, the roleplay being commandered by Ace, but unfortunately, he left.
Another thing I like to point out is that we have no solid /space station/, and the ties with Legion being lessened. The whole point of our group is to be spooks, finding out information where we can. Not to conquer, not to enforce, but to gather and harness valuables.
Our capital ships don't really tend to sneak through House Space a lot, unless transferring between the Omicrons or another point of interest, which by the way - we have permission in Bret to transfer to each allowed zones, (omega 3, Inverness, etc) and usually ask for BAF| escorting when this happens.
To analyse Sombra's post:
- Auxesia seems to do everything to get themselves in every opportunity on the server to bring themselves in
Nope. We haven't involved ourselves in a lot of events, we missed out a few in Liberty, pretty much all of Kusari's events and Rheinland ones. One, we do not chase and hunt the Cultists, we study them - two being that we act neutral to them, in hopes they keep being neutral back to us; which they do for now. Three; We only go for events. Remember, spooks, the whole information gathering thing. It's part of the roleplay to make sure where our competition is - technology wise. Finding out how strong others are, or how certain factions deal with certain problems. It's analysing the environment. Of course, there are times where we can get samples for ourselves.
-That's starting with using the player list to chase down single entities - yeah, you told me your motivation behind it, but it's not a singular case. Nobody minds it when the player list is used to get to the action, to the crowd, because few people enjoy roaming around alone, but looking for and chaseing people over multiple systems is something I expect to change in the Auxesian gameplay
Again, not really. We don't really tend to 'hunt down' particular people (beyond bounties, which I'll cover in a bit) - unless there was valid following roleplay - I don't know why people perceive stuff like this. You're going to have to give examples. If you're talking about the Apahanta, I have been ignoring it, and that one time, I decided to go check it out, as I've said before.
Because in my eyes, you saying that I go RP with an OSC man in Vespucci instead of waltzing in to a populated area like New York is terrible. What? (also that was an actual example. )
-The lack of a clearly defined ZoI, which, if anything, should be based around Kansas and Inverness, as you happen to have your main bases there, as well as the fact that you have your assets placed in what feels like all over sirius. You compared your ID then with BDM, Order and Core then, however the people of those factions aren't freelancers that can register on Bounty Boards all over Sirius that support hunting Maltese, Corsairs, Order and when it suits you, the Core.
We don't need a ZOI. We have no Space Stations. We have no legally owned space. We don't actually have anything in Inverness beyond loaning a few modules. The Outpost in Kansas is a research orientated facility and general engineering now, which is supposed to be hidden place. Once again, we're spooks, we're nomads, we have City Ships to move around. And more importantly, ships can stop to refuel at stations. It's not like moving through space is impossible.
However, in comparison to Intelligence IDs, they have a far more broader engagement ability than we do. For example:
The Order can shoot ANY quasi lawfuls and unlawfuls ANYWHERE - can also demand the same cargo - can also shoot any declared hostiles - so they can literally declare anyone hostile and kill them. They can also literally kill anyone carrying Nomadic Equipment, and any other Intelligence Faction. (reading off the wiki mind you, but it's really close enough to what I remember ingame. ) They can also use 4.3k transports
Intelligence factions, LSF, BDM etc, can shoot ANY HOSTILE ANYWHERE and can do the law related things near their house, can use 4.3k's, can literally take cruisers anywhere and can only defend itself. They can also defend lawful-neutrals and allies, which is another massive broad range of factions.
Meanwhile, Core can shoot anyone with Nom tech, anyone hauling nom stuff + can demand it, and can hunt the Order anywhere, can use 4.3k's, can do bounties too, can protect allied+lawful neutral, can attack lawfuls+quasi+unlawfuls which are hostile within ZOI.
So let's compare it to ours.
What can we do?
We can protect close friends in danger, Hellfire, IMG and AI.
But shortly, it'll just be AI and IMG.
Bretonia has yet to secure it's trust in us. Why you wonder we ''act as police'' in Bretonia? No - Bounty Hunting isn't policing, and we're trying to obtain some links in Sirius, where Bretonia is easiest to manipulate into befriending. As for the AI, they ideologically align with us, our goal is to open them up to other factions in order to grow stronger.
We can demand alien & dangerous materials
Pretty much that. We're hoarders by nature, we see these as a source of danger, and that everyone else is incapable of handling it. The materials are rare, and lead to power. We don't want others gaining power out of greed and to carelessly spread the material around, which is quite ironic as we wish to hoard the materials for the purpose of research. However, we tend to hunt hostiles and Freelancers with no reputation. For example, we'll leave BAF| alone and other House lawfuls. Unless we find them alone, indies and excluded, eg the Omicrons. Although, we'll tend to leave BAF indies alone. One example was a shady Bowex vessel, a pure 5ker, no armor, no escorts etc, in House Space, which really causes the trigger to get annoyed.
ALRIGHT LADS, GRAB YOUR RIFLE, ITS DUCK SEASON. (Bounty Hunting)
Ohhh boy, my favourite part...
We do restrain ourselves when it comes to Bounty Hunting, we only shoot the factions that we know for sure hate us, or are just loosely organised, eg Rogues. We had some nice chats with some Rogues before, which was pretty cool. But one important thing is that we don't put all people in the same baskets, unless you're one of our main enemies, or help them in some way.
For example, let's analyse the Bounty Boards:
Bretonia - On this, we DO NOT hunt the following factions: Mollys, Coalition, Lane Hackers
These factions show opportunity when it comes to diplomacy. We're not fully lawful, we're aware that some connections in the underworld is needed for snooping out information, or for some way of obtaining illict cargo for reasons. This applies to other groups, not just these. We don't seek bad bonds with the Mollys as they haven't shown hostilities, and they share a common enemy in the area, Corsairs. We have no ideological conflicts, and no area of confliction either. Coalition? We want to avoid hostilities, but their friendship with the Hessians may prove that difficult to retain neutrality. There was a time where our radar flipped off as we found a transport full of Nomad Powercells, azurite, remains, etc, but due to some extensive talk, we repaid them and gave the items back, retaining neutrality. Nowadays, we keep out of each others way. As for the Lane Hackers, we have a No Aggression Pact, where we just overlook each others activities and continue on with life. We do business with them now and then.
IMG - Since the rework and removal of targets, the only thing we do not hunt on there is GC. There's no reason to, only some ideological conflicts, but, we've seen near to none hostilities from the GC. In some cases, they're seen as admirable for standing up against Kusari's sexism, although disappointing that they enslaved themselves to Cardamine, effectively stuck with the Outcasts. Another major reason that we don't bother with them is that we don't care about Kusari. We don't tend to do any major operations there, mainly due to outsider hatred, and due to the lack of interest. The only thing you'll see is escorts, transports, or the rare scout patrol - which most of the times is just us passing through Kusari to get to another place such as the Taus.
Junker Congress Once again, the factions we don't hunt on an active basis for that board: Xenos (no interest in causing conflict. ) - KNF (lawful entity, no want for legal trouble, especially when we escort IMG) - and Hogosha to an extent. We're aware of them helping the Corsairs, but, they're such a minority that it doesn't matter to us, not to mention that they're in Kusari, too far away, and out of our interests.
The Junker Bounty Board is a blessing for money though, (I admit I hate trading. )
THEY'LL NEVER FIGURE OUT MY SECRET PLAN TO MAKE THEM BANKRUPT FROM OVERHUNTING
Hellfire Legion - When Auxesia was in it's state of diplomatic slavery (and being an indie faction) - we /had/ work to do for them. Hellfire was really getting pissed off at us being unable to actively help them because of no ID, and weird server rules, thus the board was developed. The board or more or less what targets they wanted panned down. The faction was really a minority at this point, as it needed work to survive. Though, we didn't target 101st, and still don't. BHG were usually avoided unless they were being extremely irritating.
VWA - We signed up because we wanted to improve relations with them by helping them, and more importantly, to lessen the Core's control over time by playing our cards carefully, trying to get all the factions around them to like us to play the whole 'Raaaaagh! Take over the Core!' scheme. But like on all the other boards, we didn't hunt certain targets. Such as RM, BDM, Kruger, Republican, BHG.
One thing to note, is due to us attempting to get closer to Bretonia, and due to the areas of interest starting to heavily conflict, is that we started being hostile to Gallia. We're aware that they're going to try to wipe us out, and thus, we're retaliating before it's too late. It was inevitable, really.
The point of bounty hunting in the ultimate goal, is to help bring income to ourselves. We have no fixed source of money, and no ore claim, despite attempting to survey the ores in Vespucci and Kansas. Speaking of which, it's within our lore that we use generic ships for bounty hunting, unless there's a massive issue to take care of. Example: Corsair or Outcast war ships. Wouldn't want to throw disposable junk at it, but rather to reinforce the ships with some firing support. I'd also like to add that bounty hunting isn't quite policing. If we happen to find evidence of people doing bad, it works in our favour to make the local government trust us more, or open up to blackmailing. It also gives us an opportunity to make the person with us, in exchange of us not ratting him out.
Funnily enough, we were offered usage of the LH Bounty Board, but we declined.
That should hopefully conclude most of Bounty Hunting. QUACK.
We can shoot Nomads and Wilds, except for Transports.
Self explanatory. They hate us, we hate them, they have dangerous technology, they're basically biological machines built to kill, and we know that. Now, if we could or knew how the Nomads could be reprogrammed to be sentient, things would be different. Or in the Vagrants case, they seemed to have evolved differently, allowing us to observe them, see how they communicate, how they think in relation to their brethren. We're aware that a 'computers' programming is sometimes broken, and we make opportunity of that. We're aware that individuality doesn't exist entirely within the Nomad community.
Also, we don't tend to shoot Morphs. Sometimes, we rarely do.
We can use transports up to 3.6k
Pretty much that. No powertrading, but enough to obtain and to secure materials where needed.
Cannot do any other unlawful action
I'm not quite familiar with the definition of unlawful action, but, basically no stuff such as piracy, demanding for money. Which is fine, since we're not focused on being the richest.
So, all in all, to compare, we don't get to freely engage our enemies. We can only defend ourselves, and allies. Can demand alien cargo, which is extremely rare nowadays. Oh, right, our tech cell is pretty limited too.
BW and Core is 100.
House civilian, HF and sirius civilian is 90
IMG and Bret tech is 75.
Not a lot. Don't make me compare our tech cell to the other factions, because you and I (directed at everyone), both know that our ID is inferior tech wise.
also the word count for this is exactly 14,512 with formatting so sorry if I didn't cover everything.
RE: A/) - Feedback - Sombs - 01-16-2017
Yeah, even that it doesn't cover everything, I see and appreciate the effort in that answer. If you manage to do that next time without calling me a frucking idiot, self-proclaimed saint of RP and hypocrit and telling me to fruck off, it would be rather perfect. But let's blame your lack of sleep/sobriety about that in that very moment. After all, the feedback wasn't ment to destroy you but rather to make you reflect the current appearance of Auxesia. It never was aimed at roleplay justifications. I hope you realise that.
RE: A/) - Feedback - Vendetta - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 06:34 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Yeah, even that it doesn't cover everything, I see and appreciate the effort in that answer. If you manage to do that next time without calling me a frucking idiot, self-proclaimed saint of RP and hypocrit and telling me to fruck off, it would be rather perfect. But let's blame your lack of sleep/sobriety about that in that very moment. After all, the feedback wasn't ment to destroy you but rather to make you reflect the current appearance of Auxesia. It never was aimed at roleplay justifications. I hope you realise that.
You've been doing exactly what everyone else has been doing since the creation of the faction, so let's get something straight.
Subjective opinions are all usually incorrect, especially when presented with the objective side of things, as had been done in this thread before, and in the faction creation thread, or on Skype, or in PM, or everywhere. I have absolutely no hopes of people ever changing their opinion of the faction or how they see it, because they can't look past things they do not like.
Our appearance is how people see it, not how we see it or how it really is. When we end up in places like Kusari or Rheinland, on the off chance that we manage to get there in time, it's usually a small number of people, because the faction its self is not some glorious megatitan that can go anywhere and do anything. The faction is small and represented as such. We're not in front line conflict often, we pick and choose our targets. We don't have thousands of people in every house, but a handful here or there. Our representation of strength is displayed by where the core of the fleet decides to locate its self - those being the three (soon to be two) warships - and spend an extended amount of time in that region, system or wherever conducting whatever operation suits the faction's goals or needs to survive. This can be a variety of things, such as hunting down our enemies or hunting bounties to keep ourselves afloat, as Nyx touched up on, to chasing after some valuable tech or rumored individual possessing something of interest.
That very freedom we enjoy, that makes people think we're some Sirius-wide police force, is also extremely limited. We're in Bretonia, shooting Corsairs and Gaians. Why? Corsairs are one of our enemies, but plot twist: We can't engage them anywhere else due to bounty restrictions. Why the Gaians? They kidnapped one of our allied leaders, and we aided in the removal of an outpost that was holding him. They use Corsair technology and are known to be used by the Corsairs as waystations for smuggling artifacts, which makes them even more of a target if we want to injure the Corsair industry. The same could be said for Outcasts anywhere else, as we can't fight them in Bretonia if we want to obey Bretonian law.
I honestly cannot be bothered to keep explaining it. I've done it so many times in so many different ways that it's just a chore these days. Point is, we have a lot of restrictions on what we can and cannot do. We don't have faction rights to enforce as we're based off of a generic faction. If there was some plausible way that we could've conducted the roleplay we needed to in order to form the faction and stay afloat while retaining the freedom we needed to do so on a different ID, we would've gone for it, but no such ID exists, and even our ID is a far cry from what the faction should be able to do.
RE: A/) - Feedback - Implosion - 01-16-2017
A few questions there, two related to the previous discussion and one that I've been meaning to ask for some time now.
1st:
Quote:We can protect close friends in danger, Hellfire, IMG and AI.IMG and AI, you say?
If this is case, what are your reasons for supporting zoners in the recent omicron wars, further more, you said gathering data.
Does that include policing the Omicrons (yes, I mean that. There was a crisis, you came in, demanded answers and evidence and all that),
demolishing order bases, protecting zoner transports and openly hunting Core?
2nd:
Core shipline and weapons were introduced after Aux "defected" from the Core, yet, for some reason, you can build Marlins and even hand them over to third parties.
You do not own that technology, what is your justification for having it and giving it away?
Marlins, Wahoos, Skipjacks and the rest of the new stuff came out well after Aux was made.
Let's assume that when you took off, you "liberated" a few Mantas with buckshots. This is what you should have.
How you got the schematic for the brand new stuff is still unknown to me and as the current leader of the Core, I'd very much like to find out.
3rd: You say you don't need a ZoI, bust most factions actually do have a ZoI.
It's there for balance and to prevent people from abusing stuff. Most official factions have to follow their ZoI, no matter what the limitations are.
I'm aware you have plenty of IC reasons to not follow a ZoI, but is there an actual good OOC reason to allow your caps to roam around sirius?
RE: A/) - Feedback - Kauket - 01-16-2017
(01-16-2017, 07:43 PM)Implosion Wrote: Two questions there, one related to the previous discussion and one that I've been meaning to ask for some time now.
1st:
Quote:We can protect close friends in danger, Hellfire, IMG and AI.IMG and AI, you say?
If this is case, what are your reasons for supporting zoners in the recent omicron wars, further more, you said gathering data.
Does that include policing the Omicrons (yes, I mean that. There was a crisis, you came in, demanded answers and evidence and all that),
demolishing order bases, protecting zoner transports and openly hunting Core?
2nd:
Core shipline and weapons were introduced after Aux "defected" from the Core, yet, for some reason, you can build Marlins and even hand them over to third parties.
You do not own that technology, what is your justification for having it and giving it away?
Marlins, Wahoos, Skipjacks and the rest of the new stuff came out well after Aux was made.
Let's assume that when you took off, you "liberated" a few Mantas with buckshots. This is what you should have.
How you got the schematic for the brand new stuff is still unknown to me and as the current leader of the Core, I'd very much like to find out.
http://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=311
all of your answers are there. Go read it up. I'm sick and tired of constantly repeating myself. Doesn't help that Lyth is trying to manipulate people into getting others banned.
As for the LH, that was outdated tech we gave them.