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+--- Thread: PvP rules and wars not supported by in game descriptions. (/showthread.php?tid=152473)
RE: PvP rules and wars not supported by in game descriptions. - blksti - 08-10-2017
(08-09-2017, 04:11 PM)Techpriest Wrote:(08-09-2017, 04:02 PM)blksti Wrote: Let's have an example. I'm new, I play a new miner with the Miner ID. A guy in a Freelancer ID (neutral to me) blows me up since he says that his faction or club is at war with Miners. Do we still think that's ok?
No because that's against the RP violation. Freelancer ID can't exactly blow you up if their "faction" is at war with the miners since Miner ID are just Freelancer Miners. Now if it's a bounty on your head that the Freelancer is claiming, that's ok as well.
If it was an IMG ID however and you were in their ZOI, that's a different story which most of us would agree then it is ok.
OK, new example. I'm new playing a Samura trader. in New Tokyo. Out of nowhere, a Kishiro ship comes and blasts me, because "we're in open war because of RP". ID doesn't say they can do that, It's purely a "RP War" happening between two official factions, that now you're bringing unrelated Indies into.
I just can't see a reasonable and fair reason that Indies should be included in official faction RP drama. All it does is encourage griefing.
RE: PvP rules and wars not supported by in game descriptions. - Techpriest - 08-10-2017
(08-10-2017, 01:41 AM)blksti Wrote: OK, new example. I'm new playing a Samura trader. in New Tokyo. Out of nowhere, a Kishiro ship comes and blasts me, because "we're in open war because of RP". ID doesn't say they can do that, It's purely a "RP War" happening between two official factions, that now you're bringing unrelated Indies into.
I just can't see a reasonable and fair reason that Indies should be included in official faction RP drama. All it does is encourage griefing.
???
Then it's a sanction for those that violate the IDs.
Kishiro ID Wrote:Can engage in piracy against Samura outside of House systems.
Samura ID Wrote:Can engage in piracy against Kishiro, GMG or Synthfoods outside of House systems.
Take them out of New Tokyo and into the border systems and it's a different story.
RE: PvP rules and wars not supported by in game descriptions. - blksti - 08-10-2017
The ID for the Core doesn't say they're at war, doesn't count the Zoners as an enemy, etc. Thus what occurred is a violation of the ID. And that's the whole point, there's no way for a victim to know until they get blown up by someone citing a war that exists in RP world, but has no official backing in the game,
That's why if members of an official faction want to do it, that seems fair, they're both agreeing and getting involved. But Indies who would probably not spend all the time on the forum looking for that sort of information because they're new and are just trying to save up enough for a Gunboat or a bigger transport wouldn't be involved.
And if the argument is "well there's not enough official faction members on for that RP war to be fun", then just end the war because the groups at war aren't willing to invest the time in that RP storyline.
RE: PvP rules and wars not supported by in game descriptions. - Occam Razor - 08-10-2017
(08-10-2017, 10:13 PM)blksti Wrote: The ID for the Core doesn't say they're at war, doesn't count the Zoners as an enemy, etc. Thus what occurred is a violation of the ID. And that's the whole point, there's no way for a victim to know until they get blown up by someone citing a war that exists in RP world, but has no official backing in the game,
That's why if members of an official faction want to do it, that seems fair, they're both agreeing and getting involved. But Indies who would probably not spend all the time on the forum looking for that sort of information because they're new and are just trying to save up enough for a Gunboat or a bigger transport wouldn't be involved.
And if the argument is "well there's not enough official faction members on for that RP war to be fun", then just end the war because the groups at war aren't willing to invest the time in that RP storyline.
Not true, the ID of the Core allows it to 'engage unlawfuls, quasi-lawfuls and ships which belong to a house or organisation considered hostile by the BHG Core within their Zone of Influence'. Zoners count as quasi-lawfuls and thus may be engaged by the Core.
Yes, it is not a nice thing for the person to do, but the Omicrons are not a place recommended for a new player. They are supposed to be deadly, dangerous and scary. If you want to play it relatively safe move into the houses, there you will only have to worry about the occasional pirate in most cases.
RE: PvP rules and wars not supported by in game descriptions. - Wrong_Way_Finnagan - 08-22-2017
(08-10-2017, 10:56 PM)Occam Razor Wrote: Not true, the ID of the Core allows it to 'engage unlawfuls, quasi-lawfuls and ships which belong to a house or organisation considered hostile by the BHG Core within their Zone of Influence'. Zoners count as quasi-lawfuls and thus may be engaged by the Core.
It's not clear by that wording, as Zoners are NOT "considered hostile by the BHG Core within their Zone of Influence".
Note that the wording does not separate as a group "quasi-lawfuls" from house ships as far as the second condition applies, "considered hostile by the BHG Core within their Zone of Influence" applies to quasi-lawfuls as well as I read it, ESPECIALLY with this line:
"Can attack lawfuls, unlawfuls and quasi-lawfuls in self-defense, to protect an allied or neutral lawful ship, or in defense of Core bases."
If they have the right to attack any quasi-lawful at will, then there is no need for quasi-lawful in that line.
The fact is, the attacker did not justify his attack as "Core can attack any quasi-lawful", he justified it as "There is RP on the forum that Core and Zoners are at war". Prior to that RP war, were Core able to attack Zoners at will?
RE: PvP rules and wars not supported by in game descriptions. - Occam Razor - 08-22-2017
(08-22-2017, 07:21 AM)Wrong_Way_Finnagan Wrote: It's not clear by that wording, as Zoners are NOT "considered hostile by the BHG Core within their Zone of Influence".
Note that the wording does not separate as a group "quasi-lawfuls" from house ships as far as the second condition applies, "considered hostile by the BHG Core within their Zone of Influence" applies to quasi-lawfuls as well as I read it, ESPECIALLY with this line:
You can understand that line as three separate groups they may attack without breaking server rules: All unlawfuls and all quasi lawfuls (including Zoners and Freelancers) and all members of groups considered hostile to the Core, within their Zone of Influence.
(08-22-2017, 07:21 AM)Wrong_Way_Finnagan Wrote: "Can attack lawfuls, unlawfuls and quasi-lawfuls in self-defense, to protect an allied or neutral lawful ship, or in defense of Core bases."
If they have the right to attack any quasi-lawful at will, then there is no need for quasi-lawful in that line.
That is not true, because there is a crucial difference between those lines. One allows them to engage ships at will within their Zone of Influence, and the other allows them to defend ships or bases anywhere.
(08-22-2017, 07:21 AM)Wrong_Way_Finnagan Wrote: The fact is, the attacker did not justify his attack as "Core can attack any quasi-lawful", he justified it as "There is RP on the forum that Core and Zoners are at war". Prior to that RP war, were Core able to attack Zoners at will?
The attacker does not have to justify their attack rule-wise, he can say whatever he wants in roleplay, the point is that his ID allows him to engage Zoners. Whether he should do that is another question, but I have absolutely no idea about the situation between the Core and the Zoners, so that would have to be answered by someone else.
RE: PvP rules and wars not supported by in game descriptions. - Wrong_Way_Finnagan - 08-23-2017
(08-22-2017, 08:09 AM)Occam Razor Wrote: You can understand that line as three separate groups they may attack without breaking server rules: All unlawfuls and all quasi lawfuls (including Zoners and Freelancers) and all members of groups considered hostile to the Core, within their Zone of Influence.
That is not clear, the condition "considered hostile by the BHG Core within their Zone of Influence" can apply to all three groups listed, the way the sentence is structured.
In the game, Core and Zoners are not enemies, so it seems unlikely that the Core would be allowed to attack Zoner players at will, outside of RP on the server justification.
Also since Zoners are not allowed to attack Core in their ID, it seems unlikely that the intent is to make PvP that one sided, where Core is attacking Zoners at will but Zoners can't do the same.
RE: PvP rules and wars not supported by in game descriptions. - Antonio - 08-23-2017
(08-23-2017, 08:01 AM)Wrong_Way_Finnagan Wrote: Zoners are not allowed to attack Core in their ID
This is incorrect, Zoners can attack any Core ship in Omicron Delta (where your encounter took place). Regardless of the ID lines, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get sanctioned for shooting Core on your Zoner even if you're outside of Delta although I agree that the ID needs better wording. Perhaps add all Omicrons instead of just Delta to make a clear definition where you can be the aggressor or just shoot in self defense rather than the current vague one.
Zoner ID Wrote:Can attack any Core ship in Omicron Delta, except transports.