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+--- Thread: Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? (/showthread.php?tid=17908)
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - majkp - 03-16-2009
I am doing this announcement to stop the requests to increase the 200 player limit on a single server. Please if you spot another thread related to this, post a link to this thread in there so we have it all on one place.
Raising the limit beyond 200 on a single server is technically not possible. Flserver can only use 1 core so dual-core is enough (1 core for flserver, 1 core for supporting processes). We would need a dualcore CPU running at 5GHz or more. These are not available and most probably they are not going to be available in future. The only remaining option is overclocking. We currently have an Intel E8400 running at 4GHz (Original value is 3GHz). It's capable to run stable at 4,5GHz but last summer we lowered it to 4GHz for stability reasons. Once the mod beta-testing is over (and the crashes as well) I'll raise it back to 4,5GHz but even this frequency doesn't allow us to raise the 200 limit. Server will lag a little less and there will be slightly more NPCs, but it might also crash more!
We do have plans to solve the full server issue (both count with 2 or more linked servers) but they can't be implemented in a blink of an eye. First I was thinking to make a separate PvP server, but we had that in past and people didn't use the PvP one very much. So we need to stay with 2 RP servers. The options are:
* First (and more real) one is an idea of 2 parallel Sirius universes (servers) but the database of both servers is synchronized. This means after player logs out from one server, all changes are transferred to the other server. Both servers are RP servers and players/factions can choose between them knowing that both servers have the last 'version' of their characters. The problem might come when 1 character is used on both servers at the same time (shared chars for example) - most probably the latest updated character will be used to be sent to the other server so some changes might be lost.
* Second idea will definitely need much more flhook programming, time and also testing before it can go live. It counts with 2 servers (later maybe more) but only one Sirius universe, each of the servers 'serving' only 1/2 of the systems. During a jump player is (if needed) automatically re-logged to the other server. Jumping, messaging, transferring cash between the servers and other stuff is handled via an flhook link. But some things will most probably be impossible to implement (like groups - they will have to be re-joined after a jump to another server's system). More issues will definitely be known later. This way looks perfect, but don't expect it to come sooner than in the end of this year most probably even next year. It's also possible that we run into problems that we're not able to solve at all.
I am prepared to host 2 servers, we would need some donations for the second one's HW, which I am sure we are able to collect rather quickly. I can host it for free. Hosting a game server usually costs 150-200USD per month per single server so we're saving quite a lot of money in this area.
But there are not only technical issues. We are strongly critisized by some other servers and communities that by increasing the player slots we are destroying other servers. I must admit there is something true about this. People ususally want to interact with other players and they prefer servers with more players. But on the other hand we're a hard-core RP oriented community and we do all we can to discourage PvP only oriented players and while most of the other servers are PvP oriented we shouldn't really harm them. This issue needs to be discussed as well along the technical issues, we shouldn't forget about it.
But current absolute priority is the mod beta-testing. Once this is finished we can think of moving to other areas.
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - mielric - 03-16-2009
I'd be prepared to donate some money for a second server. You guys could always start on the long term one, the second idea seemed interesting indeed, as it would come close to an Eve-Online like expansion for Discovery. It'd be well worth the effort, is it possible to flhook more than 2 servers?
I'd also be prepared to wait until the 4.85 hype stabilises a bit, numbers do go down eventually.
Also, my apologies for yelling too much.
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - Friday - 03-16-2009
The strong survive, the weak perish. Dont stress about other servers complaining of 'poaching' their players.
I noticed the other thread was closed - I just want to say that I am willing to help with this in any way I can. Need cash? Testing? Name it.
I offer this because if it works, then there is no theoretical limit to the size of the Discovery universe.
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - Seth Karlo - 03-16-2009
I'll upload some money to PayPal now and donate.
Seth
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - Robert.Fitzgerald - 03-16-2009
I personally think the first option is best for now. It allows us to get more players in to play Discovery RP, while doesn't have as many potential programming issues as option two. However, number two seems best in the long run
Some questions:
-How long would it take for the databases to syncronise (estimate)? Example, a character is created then the player wants to log onto the second server. Would it be practically instantaneous, or would there be a delay?
-Would the second server be run 24/7? While we may reach peak players in some time zones, in pacific time zones there can be as low as 30 players on the main server. Would it be efficient for the server to be running constantly, when the 200 cap has not been reached?
-Will there be any way for players to communicate with those on the other server? Ie, a player wants to talk to a faction which is on the second server (without logging off and relogging onto the second server).
More to come. Thank you.
While there may be concerns from other players regarding our popularity, we should not restrict our growth simply because people want to play with other players. Believe it or not Discovery, but most players who turn up here end up adding to the experience - mostly in a good way. There are some bad eggs yes, but their numbers pale in comparison to the numbers of good players who were attracted by the server population.
P.S prepared to donate some money.
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - McNeo - 03-16-2009
' Wrote:The strong survive, the weak perish. Dont stress about other servers complaining of 'poaching' their players.
I noticed the other thread was closed - I just want to say that I am willing to help with this in any way I can. Need cash? Testing? Name it.
I offer this because if it works, then there is no theoretical limit to the size of the Discovery universe.
On the other hand, concepts from other mods are looked at by players (best example is graphics of plasmafire, for example). If those other mods arent there or arent being developed anymore because of Disco becoming "too popular" then innovation may start to fall by the wayside a little.
I dont want to be the party-pooper, but if you get too big, things start to go wrong more and more frequently. Im still an advocate of the second option, even though it will take a long time to make. However, these other servers are quite important for discovery.
We already have the highest player average of any FL server, and have defeated our nemesis, the Voidserver. Those saying that the sky is the limit, and that disco will last forever, are quite mistaken. It relies on many factors, and innovation from other servers is one of them...
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - skoko - 03-16-2009
' Wrote:I am doing this announcement to stop the requests to increase the 200 player limit on a single server. Please if you spot another thread related to this, post a link to this thread in there so we have it all on one place.Aye, that is something i keep telling people. Lag before making test server was there, but it was bearable and everything was fine. It will be all good once again , after all testing and beta period finishes. Untill then it is understandable that testers need their separate server and I can't see how can anyone complain on lag... more understanding and tolerance please...
Raising the limit beyond 200 on a single server is technically not possible. Flserver can only use 1 core so dual-core is enough (1 core for flserver, 1 core for supporting processes). We would need a dualcore CPU running at 5GHz or more. These are not available and most probably they are not going to be available in future. The only remaining option is overclocking. We currently have an Intel E8400 running at 4GHz (Original value is 3GHz). It's capable to run stable at 4,5GHz but last summer we lowered it to 4GHz for stability reasons. Once the mod beta-testing is over (and the crashes as well) I'll raise it back to 4,5GHz but even this frequency doesn't allow us to raise the 200 limit. Server will lag a little less and there will be slightly more NPCs, but it might also crash more!
' Wrote:We do have plans to solve the full server issue (both count with 2 or more linked servers) but they can't be implemented in a blink of an eye. First I was thinking to make a separate PvP server, but we had that in past and people didn't use the PvP one very much. So we need to stay with 2 RP servers. The options are:That is very good news. I was wondering about that myself. Good news, kudos to you!
' Wrote:* First (and more real) one is an idea of 2 parallel Sirius universes (servers) but the database of both servers is synchronized. This means after player logs out from one server, all changes are transferred to the other server. Both servers are RP servers and players/factions can choose between them knowing that both servers have the last 'version' of their characters. The problem might come when 1 character is used on both servers in the same time (shared chars for example) - most probably the latest updated character will be used to be sent to the other server so some changes might be lost.Yes, this is very good idea. And doable. Also RP events could be announced infront on which server it will happen so all can log. But also rading systems while opponents are waiting on other server and things like that can bring some problems. Character updating (on other server) after char logs off should be rather quick because that problem you mentioned above. Also, if needed, people should consider on cutting number of chars to only necessary ones, I am not saying that person who has 30 chars should delete 25 but deleting 10 is good way to start, IF that would help at all to makes char updates faster.
' Wrote:* Second idea will definitely need much more flhook programming, time and also testing before it can go live. It counts with 2 servers (later maybe more) but only one Sirius universe, each of the servers 'serving' only 1/2 of the systems. During a jump player is (if needed) automatically re-logged to the other server. Jumping, messaging, transferring cash between the servers and other stuff is handled via an flhook link. But some things will most probably be impossible to implement (like groups - they will have to be re-joined after a jump to another server's system). More issues will definitely be known later. This way looks perfect, but don't expect it to come sooner than in the end of this year most probably even next year. It's also possible that we run into problems that we're not able to solve at all.This is interesting idea.It will require massive programming, imo. But better idea, than above mentioned because people would do things in same "time frame". Also, if systems can be listed server wise, jumping from one system to another (switching servers) can be done by auto kick/ban from one server and player can then manually transfer/to another server (char database should be updated) so when player logs other server he is by JH/JG he wanted to be. Auto switching sounds good, but it will give headache to programmers and its really not so big deal to log on different server when necessary.
If that parallel servers could somehow separate factions in war that could be very good. Imagine Gamma and Alpha are on different servers. hah, interesting... Best thing would probably be server for each house but that would give traders a headache while making round trips throughout Sirius.
' Wrote:I am prepared to host 2 servers, we would need some donations for the second one's HW, which I am sure we are able to collect rather quickly. I can host it for free. Hosting a game server usually costs 150-200USD per month per single server so we're saving quite a lot of money in this area.I am happy reading this, because i heard some ,now figured wrong, rumors about your intention for hosting server for just a year and some more (I've heard that almost year ago). So reading above mentioned made me very happy! oh and one more thing : THANKS for the server! Money, that is really not an issue. I bet my as* that we can collect for some far end HW, no matter what price.
' Wrote:But there are not only technical issues. We are strongly critisized by some other servers and communities that by increasing the player slots we are destroying other servers. I must admit there is something true about this. People ususally want to interact with other players and they prefer servers with more players. But on the other hand we're a hard-core RP oriented community and we do all we can to discourage PvP only oriented players and while most of the other servers are PvP oriented we shouldn't really harm them. This issue needs to be discussed as well along the technical issues, we shouldn't forget about it.
This is something i wasn't thinking about. Why? Well because I don't have ANY desire to play other mods since i started to play Disco. Why? Because it is RP mod, community is awesome, and rules are applied for all. Also interaction on so many levels (beside PvP) between factions is possible and that is something people like here. So my advice to you is to stop being worried about what others say and think, you invested way to many work, nerves and money to make this awesome mod. Other servers don't have so widely spread and detailed RP as we have here. That is something that give that extra flavor to this server.
At the end, i want to say that dev team did amazing job on 4.85. Cannon is beating server with software stick while majkp beats it with hardware stick, kudos again to all. After 4.85 is finished, please log with us on your chars and enjoy this server for half a year at least. Then, when and if you feel fresh enough to start working on above mentioned ideas, you start doing that.
Skoko
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - swift - 03-16-2009
I am leaning significantly more to the second option, I feel that one is best, despite it taking a long time to implement.
I would not like to see for example, 4 players in the area of my current char on one server, and 4 others on the other. So how can I decide on which server to go.. and re-log and all the awkward things like that.
And this is just one flaw with it.
The second option would basically be doubling the server slot limit, and it'd feel to you as if you were playing on the same server the whole time.
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - Dashiell - 03-16-2009
personally I think the player count will lower eventually. 4.85 is quite new now so more people will be playing.
I think that in a few weeks time this problem may be far less owrrysome than it is now.
then again, maybe not:)
Admin Announcement: Full server, what now? - Leadcrows - 03-16-2009
First of all it is important is to keep stability.
From Freelancer Server Statistics, the server is overfilled in a certain time line.
With ''coarse'' calculation the server only is overfilled to 25%max each 24/1 from ''19PM to 1AM''.
Maybe it is possible to adapt the first option to this time line.
I see alot issues with the second option, it will be hard work to run it without further obstacles.
' Wrote:But there are not only technical issues. We are strongly critisized by some other servers and communities that by increasing the player slots we are destroying other servers. I must admit there is something true about this. People ususally want to interact with other players and they prefer servers with more players. But on the other hand we're a hard-core RP oriented community and we do all we can to discourage PvP only oriented players and while most of the other servers are PvP oriented we shouldn't really harm them. This issue needs to be discussed as well along the technical issues, we shouldn't forget about it.
This is because it is important to keep stability in the first place and in the second increasing limits.
Freelancer community consists of many servers, i agree, but to be honest if people come to play here by their own will there are is nothing to be critisized.