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World of Tanks - Hades - 09-10-2012
' Wrote:Both tanks lost their most powerful gun.The PZIV is also made a lot faster with much better turning. The turret itself turns much faster as well, and if you look at the difference between the old SU-85 gun compared to the new, it's just as dramatic, if not moreso. The SU-85 owners also had to research their new gun as well, which was why they were given xp. The PZ4 owners do not have to do this.
PzIV gets a tiny buff to an existing gun. SU-85 got an entirely new gun.
PzIV also had it's turret replaced with an arguably weaker turret.
Surely the PzIV owners should get some free xp.
World of Tanks - Crackpunch - 09-10-2012
' Wrote:The PZIV is also made a lot faster with much better turning. The turret itself turns much faster as well, and if you look at the difference between the old SU-85 gun compared to the new, it's just as dramatic, if not moreso.
It does lose a large amount of armour and view range though. The gun is now under-performing compared to the Sherman's and T-34's weapon.
' Wrote:The SU-85 owners also had to research their new gun as well, which was why they were given xp. The PZ4 owners do not have to do this.
No they did not. I had my SU-85 elited at the time of the update (was not in garage though); I received the full free xp boost and did not have to research the new gun on the SU-85.
World of Tanks - ryoken - 09-10-2012
You are both forgeting. The German tanks/TDs and what not get nerfed all the time, and nothing. They are biased towards German gear. They have since Beta, and probably always will be. You would not believe how many times i seen a post in WoTs forum with proof of this get removed within an hour of posting, whereas US, and Russian posts are allowed to go forth, and usually end up with buffs.
So basically you need to just live with it. I got many German tanks like KT/jagtiger/MAUS/VK4502/VK3601/LOWE and they are all(except 3601) pretty much under powered compared to their US or russian units of same tier/class. Yet i still play them, and still excell at them with 50%+ averages. Hell they even nerfed the LOWEs engine last update, and never even mentioned it to anyone, and that is an expensive tank people paid cash for.
All i got to say is you need to just go with the flow. Just wait til 8.0 and watch the crap load of players complain when they get their US tier 10 TDs nerfed, as that has been verified by WG, and T-50-2 is removed, and replaced with a tank more fitting realism.
People need to read the agreement they check at every up date. WG can basically remove everyone's gear and put us all in loltractors with no warning, including removing prem tanks, and it would be within their rights as we all checked it off.
World of Tanks - Mao - 09-10-2012
Here's the premium Pz IV. And no, no one gets any compensation for having a Pz IV in his garage. You will continue to have a Pz IV with its new stats. This one will be an entirely separate tank.
World of Tanks - Crackpunch - 09-10-2012
' Wrote:Here's the premium Pz IV. And no, no one gets any compensation for having a Pz IV in his garage. You will continue to have a Pz IV with its new stats. This one will be an entirely separate tank.
Purty.
Is there a link to where the devs say they will not compensate PzIV owners? Or have they just not said they will?
World of Tanks - ryoken - 09-10-2012
' Wrote:Purty.
Is there a link to where the devs say they will not compensate PzIV owners? Or have they just not said they will?
It was mentioned on WoTs forum. But i cannot remember where sorry.
World of Tanks - VoluptaBox - 09-10-2012
Uhm, sorry, but I don't buy the German bias theories. Especially in favour of Russians. At best. Americans have the most awesome tanks right now.
I can give examples, albeit only from tier 5 and up, as I rarely play tanks below that.
Let's see good German tanks, by tiers. The Pz4 is right now the best tier 5 and quite OP I'd say, especially after what happened to the KV and the Su-85.. We'll see post nerf. At tier 6, despite a lot of crap tanks, the VK series is undeniably good, especially the 3601H. At tier 7, we have the Panther, a great medium, although not for everyone (since it's closer to heavies). Still, a fantastic tank. Then the JagdPanther, imo the best TD at the tier 7. Then the two Tigers, the best heavies, second only to the T-29. Go at tier 8, once again, fantastic tanks: Panther II, Tiger II, Ferdi, JagdPanther II etc..(plus the VK, which imo is THE best tier 8, although that is up to debate). Tier 9, uhm. I still enjoy the E50. As I enjoy the JagdTiger. And the E75 is easily the best tank at the tier. Things get a bit smelly at tier 10 indeed. E100 and JagdE100 are kind of underpar (didn't see them on the test server, however). But the Maus keeps up easily and the E50M is brilliant.
Of course, those are just brief examples, but I can go into more detail, if you want. Point is, I don't see an issue. There are some rotten eggs, but that's hardly enough to see a pattern or to say that they are biased against Germans.
World of Tanks - Crackpunch - 09-10-2012
You haven't noticed the power creep?
The once impressive German armour and sniping abilities have weakened a fair bit. New high DPS, high pen and fairly accurate guns make a mockery of German armour, and the poor pen of the 12.8 makes it difficult to tackle other tanks head on.
The recent nerfs to the KV and SU-85 are so they fit in line with the new matchmaking. The PzIV nerf brings it down to levels below the other tier 5s.
The bias is more evident in free tanks and xp. I've not received one free German tank so far, but other trees have been given scores of new tanks. KV-1, KV-2, T-150, ST-I(?), T30, T34, M109(can't remember the number). There's probably more that I've missed.
World of Tanks - ryoken - 09-10-2012
Forgot IS4/IS8 and the ELC/AMX12T But yeah not 1 free german tank. Infact they screwed the tree a few times where people have had to go back to rebuy/replay a tank.
The Bias to me is no matter how good the tank in the german line is, They all have a huge weak lower section infront, and that same weak spot causes them to burst into flames, and kills the engine more times then not. Take the JT it has awesome armour infront where it should be, but oh then they give it the wealest lower front armour of any TD even as far down as tier 7. I have penned a JT in my VK3601H from the front. Not to mention the total lack of camo ability.
Tigers? well i am sorry but i found both the IS, and the T29 far better then both the tigers were. I actually think the VK3601H is better then the tigers are.
IS3 will rock a KT 1 on 1 any day of the week.
It is true though that i find the Panther II and E50 to be far better then other meds of same tier, so 1 up for germans there.
Thing is german tree is only tree with no tanks after WWII. Russian/USA/French all have 50s tanks, and tanks that never existed past the drawing board. Why no blueprint only german 1950s tanks? Hell why not the planned big azz gun the MAUS was supposed to get?
Right now german tree has no chance tier 10 1 on 1 with any only tree. Only advantage they have is armour, and with new guns, and armour USSR and USA got recently that armour is useless, and sub par now. Probably why 8.0 has alot of USA, and USSR nerfs coming,but again they are also nerfing some germans too that need no nerf at all.
World of Tanks - VoluptaBox - 09-10-2012
' Wrote:You haven't noticed the power creep?
The once impressive German armour and sniping abilities have weakened a fair bit. New high DPS, high pen and fairly accurate guns make a mockery of German armour, and the poor pen of the 12.8 makes it difficult to tackle other tanks head on.
The recent nerfs to the KV and SU-85 are so they fit in line with the new matchmaking. The PzIV nerf brings it down to levels below the other tier 5s.
The bias is more evident in free tanks and xp. I've not received one free German tank so far, but other trees have been given scores of new tanks. KV-1, KV-2, T-150, ST-I(?), T30, T34, M109(can't remember the number). There's probably more that I've missed.
Can't think of many situations where the Germans should have been given a free tank. Can you? Let's see when other nations got free tanks. When the KV was split, you got both. Did any German tank ever get split into two? (and don't give this as an argument, as there was never a reason to split them; the KV case was something apart). Same with the KV3 and French lights. You kept the tank you had with it's new tier, and you got what was put in it's place (IS8-IS4 as well). When did that happen to the Germans? Last I recall, was when the E50 was first introduced, and the Panther II stepped down from tier 9. Players didn't get a compensation, which caused a lot of grief. But that was also long ago. The Pz4 isn't getting replaced, nor removed. Merely adjusted. The case is comparable to the one of the Su-85. Did Su players get any "unfair" compensation that Pz players are not?
These are the cases I can think of. I may be wrong, so looking forward to discussing this further. While I do own a Pz4 and would like a free tank, I don't think there's anything that would warrant getting one.
Besides, I don't generally regard tanks according to nationality. The KV/IS4 split was announced many, many months in advance. Anyone would have time to grind those, even starting from tier 1. So it's actually a gift to the players. And what do we do? Instead of accepting that gift, we start bashing at them for not giving out even more. If I were them, honestly, I wouldn't bother at all.
Oh and, never had trouble penetrating a damn thing with my puny 128. Not the best gun there, yes. But it doesn't lack. I'd actually prefer seeing the other guns toned down a bit, but I fear it won't happen.
' Wrote:Forgot IS4/IS8 and the ELC/AMX12T But yeah not 1 free german tank. Infact they screwed the tree a few times where people have had to go back to rebuy/replay a tank.
See above.
' Wrote:The Bias to me is no matter how good the tank in the german line is, They all have a huge weak lower section infront, and that same weak spot causes them to burst into flames, and kills the engine more times then not. Take the JT it has awesome armour infront where it should be, but oh then they give it the wealest lower front armour of any TD even as far down as tier 7. I have penned a JT in my VK3601H from the front. Not to mention the total lack of camo ability.
Uhm, how's that bias, given that the tanks were built that way? They do have other strengths and are balanced. And before bring up unhistorical values for the sake of balance, keep in mind that it doesn't apply to German tanks only. Just to give an example, the IS7 has less armour than it had historically. Considerably less, iirc.
' Wrote:Tigers? well i am sorry but i found both the IS, and the T29 far better then both the tigers were. I actually think the VK3601H is better then the tigers are.
Might be personal opinion, but: the T29 rocks tier 7. By far the best tank at the tier. Tiger P is a close second and the Tiger H is a third. As far as I see it, the IS falls far behind them and it's quite dreadful compared to any of those. The Tiger does anything the IS can, but better. The only advantage the IS has is alpha.
' Wrote:IS3 will rock a KT 1 on 1 any day of the week.
1 on 1 is not the best example to give. The KT will eat the IS3 alive due to sheer DPM. Funnily enough, a mere Panther I will eat both of those alive, also due to sheer DPM. There are situations when the IS3 may be better, but overall I find the KT the better of the two. And the T32 better than both. And the VK4502A better than all of those..
' Wrote:It is true though that i find the Panther II and E50 to be far better then other meds of same tier, so 1 up for germans there.
Thing is german tree is only tree with no tanks after WWII. Russian/USA/French all have 50s tanks, and tanks that never existed past the drawing board. Why no blueprint only german 1950s tanks? Hell why not the planned big azz gun the MAUS was supposed to get?
Because there's plenty of material for pre-50's tanks for the Germans (notice that they have more tanks than any other nation and there are still being planned). Not as many for the other nations. Despite the disparity in timeline, they are rather balanced. Funnily, if you look like the global win rates (I can dig a link), the Maus is like second or third, of all tier 10 heavies. Anyway, above the IS7 and IS4, but below the T110. Totally Russian bias:P
' Wrote:Right now german tree has no chance tier 10 1 on 1 with any only tree. Only advantage they have is armour, and with new guns, and armour USSR and USA got recently that armour is useless, and sub par now. Probably why 8.0 has alot of USA, and USSR nerfs coming,but again they are also nerfing some germans too that need no nerf at all.
Again, 1 v 1 it will eat anything. Due to sheer HP pool if not anything else. I do agree that the T110 is generally better. The IS4 perhaps too. But not the IS7, no.