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+---- Thread: House Police and Borderworlds (/showthread.php?tid=86229)
House Police and Borderworlds - Guyton - 08-25-2012
Curious discussion here just to properly gather community thoughts on the matter. Purely what I've witnessed as of late gave me means to clarify House Police and their neighboring Independent systems. Running about the lanes during the day as usual I noticed yet another questionable sight.
An individual roleplaying as House Police entered an Independent system where even the Military Faction is restricted to without permission. Of course I assumed he was there for the fact the Military Faction had an obvious presence within the system. Suddenly he opened fired upon a base he claimed to be "Illegally Constructed" . Well it rather worked me up a little I decided to investigate exactly his faction's ZOI regarding the Independent System.
On his faction information it stated he was restricted to House territory which was 2 full systems in the direction from which he came. Therefore I further investigated the Military Faction's information regarding their ZOI. It stated that their influence restricted them from the Borderworlds unless authorized or escorted by a higher ranking officer. I assumed it would be in the right for them to be present in the system. Even so the House they represented obviously 2 systems away only enforced law in the neighboring system exactly 1 system away , that system was also considered Borderworlds neighboring yet another Independent system which connects them to the second one the very edge of the House's ability to govern law.
With even the military being so restricted to their ZOI I didn't understand what allowed the Police faction to be authorized to travel the Borderworld's and enforce law in an unlawful area as an excuse to remove a player base or engage an individual. Is it OORP for a Police Faction to leave their House's Core Worlds or neighboring Independent system? Is it also OORP or against server rules to enforce laws where a system is deemed unlawful/independent where there is no documentation to claim or where law exists?
Answer For Questions: System: Tau-31 (Laws Enforced Upon by Police/Military) House: Gallia
[I did not vote in Poll]
House Police and Borderworlds - Hone - 08-25-2012
In my opinion, and as a member of the BPA, Police should not be patroling in the Borderworlds. However thay can go in there if they are called in, or are in Hot Pursuit. After all Police can even go to other countries if they are in Hot Pursuit, and they have treaties.
As for enforcing house law, they can if the law was broken in the house.
Of course there are grey areas, with places like O3 and O7, which Bret and RHienland claim as thier own, even though originally they were Border World.
House Police and Borderworlds - Escartes - 08-25-2012
' Wrote:Curious discussion here just to properly gather community thoughts on the matter. Purely what I've witnessed as of late gave me means to clarify House Police and their neighboring Independent systems. Running about the lanes during the day as usual I noticed yet another questionable sight.
An individual roleplaying as House Police entered an Independent system where even the Military Faction is restricted to without permission. Of course I assumed he was there for the fact the Military Faction had an obvious presence within the system. Suddenly he opened fired upon a base he claimed to be "Illegally Constructed" . Well it rather worked me up a little I decided to investigate exactly his faction's ZOI regarding the Independent System.
On his faction information it stated he was restricted to House territory which was 2 full systems in the direction from which he came. Therefore I further investigated the Military Faction's information regarding their ZOI. It stated that their influence restricted them from the Borderworlds unless authorized or escorted by a higher ranking officer. I assumed it would be in the right for them to be present in the system. Even so the House they represented obviously 2 systems away only enforced law in the neighboring system exactly 1 system away , that system was also considered Borderworlds neighboring yet another Independent system which connects them to the second one the very edge of the House's ability to govern law.
With even the military being so restricted to their ZOI I didn't understand what allowed the Police faction to be authorized to travel the Borderworld's and enforce law in an unlawful area as an excuse to remove a player base or engage an individual. Is it OORP for a Police Faction to leave their House's Core Worlds or neighboring Independent system? Is it also OORP or against server rules to enforce laws where a system is deemed unlawful/independent where there is no documentation to claim or where law exists?
[I did not vote in Poll]
Ok so if I understand correctly what your saying is House police were in the border worlds 2 systems away from there ZOI enforcing laws. If this is what you mean then I would have to say yes it is outside there RP therefore its OORP. Of course I am no expert on this but my understanding is that any house police is suppose to stay within there core space or house space depending on which term you prefer. So I am not sure why they would be trying to enforce law in an independent system. Especially even as going as far as trying to blow up a base because its illegal. Who says its illegal it cant be since its in an independent system at most it can be an unlawful base. So in my opinion they have no right per there RP to be there and try to claim its an illegal base.
It might help to one know the system your referring to?
Two, What house police?
House Police and Borderworlds - Ursus - 08-25-2012
You're asking us to answer a general question in relation to a specific case without giving any specifics. So I'll just answer the general question of "is it illegal" to police independent systems. The only meaning of "illegal" that has any bearing is if it is against the rules. Each of the Police IDs define the engagement ZOI as house systems "and the Independent Systems directly surrounding" the house systems, so most people would interpret that as the natural boundaries for any other privs. That is the general answer to the general question. If you have a specific scenario, feel free to provide it.
House Police and Borderworlds - Guyton - 08-25-2012
' Wrote:You're asking us to answer a general question in relation to a specific case without giving any specifics. So I'll just answer the general question of "is it illegal" to police independent systems. The only meaning of "illegal" that has any bearing is if it is against the rules. Each of the Police IDs define the engagement ZOI as house systems "and the Independent Systems directly surrounding" the house systems, so most people would interpret that as the natural boundaries for any other privs. That is the general answer to the general question. If you have a specific scenario, feel free to provide it.
Surrounding Borderworlds, Yes. This is concerning systems beyond those surrounding Borderworldss.
House Police and Borderworlds - Ursus - 08-25-2012
' Wrote:Surrounding Borderworlds, Yes. This is concerning systems beyond those surrounding Borderworldss.Are you sure it was 2 systems away (some of them are connected via jumphole--omega-5 is in bret ZOI because of the hole in cambridge). Was your ship an enemy of their house? Need details
House Police and Borderworlds - jammi - 08-25-2012
' Wrote:Surrounding Borderworlds, Yes. This is concerning systems beyond those surrounding Borderworldss.Could you at least give us the name of the system in relation to the House the law is being enforced from?
House Police and Borderworlds - Guyton - 08-25-2012
System : Tau-31, House: Gallia
House Police and Borderworlds - Hone - 08-25-2012
:lol:
I dont normally use smileys, but this warrents it.
Tau 31 is WELL inside what GRP considers their space. GRP even swans around in DUBLIN for goodness sake!
House Police and Borderworlds - Ursus - 08-25-2012
' Wrote:System : Tau-31, House: GalliaThe ZOI for GRP includes system that are contested by Gallia, essentially the systems that have a GRN battleship fleet
Quote:Gallic Royal Police
Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Gallic Royal Police, who:
- Can demand contraband, levy fines, and destroy ships if they refuse to comply with contraband demands, refuse to cooperate or are affiliated with a house at war with Gallia.
- Can hunt pirates and terrorists within Gallia and in systems contested by the GRN.
Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Transports, Gunboats, Cruisers.
They can engage unlawfuls there, that's enough cover for any other enforcement IMO
I do wish the IDs were written more clearly. They should define a ZOI as a separate explicit thing and then link authority to that versus house space versus global space or whatever.