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+--- Thread: Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty (/showthread.php?tid=8988)
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - RingoW - 06-01-2008
Well, the most models i have made without any pvp experiences. Just was following the basic design concepts and had my thoughts about cultural, subcultural and economic backgrounds and some technically aspects of Freelancer factions. I have also put a lot of roleplay aspects into design, shape and size, but had to learn that pvp aspects are the more appreciated ones.
Ships that are rarely used:
Blood Dragon Strike Cruiser Basically it was meant to be the biggest Blood Dragon vessel until i got the request for a Dreadnought. I have made it with the background of Blood Dragons searching a way to counter KNF Battleships. Well, since KNF playerfaction don't use the vulnerable Kusari BB and the Catamaran does the anti cap job very well, the Cruiser is bad equipped against fighters with only 7 turrets. Makes it useless. Since the Cruiser is one of my early works (high polycount, not well skinned), i will have to overwork it. I would like to keep the basic design. There are 2 ways: A cruiser with 10 to 12 turrets or a smaller destroyer with 8 to 9 turrets. Do the Blood Dragon players want to keep the Forward Gun? (Igiss will slap me therefore) So ideas and suggestions, especially from Blood Dragon players are welcome.
Orca BHG Gunboat Mjolnir and some others already posted suggestions to make it more useful. Nevertheless it is also one of my early works (high polycount, not well skinned) I was thinking to give up the catamaran shape for a smaller single hull, but keeping the speedboat design (fits well with BH subculture in my opinion) Whats about the armament?
Barghest Pirate Bomber Look at the Wolfhound/Werewolf. They are big and ugly. The Barghest was a challenge for me to give this line a nice ship. It is flatter than the Werewolf, but a bit longer. So i see absolutely no way to make it smaller than the fighter. The suggestions Mjolnir made to improve it will be the best. Heavy freighter shield and big powersupply. Additionally both turrets can be made to face forward. Any other useful ideas?
Togo Blood Dragon Dreadnought This vessel was meant to be used rarely, but when even Blood Dragon players prefer the OC BB (Kana Keiko), something must be wrong. Its size is something between Osiris and Liberty Dread. They are equipped with 12 turrets, so the Togo is. I remember the discussion about it and to become Blood Dragon BB. Today i regret a bit, not making it a Battlecruiser. It is really a roleplay ship, so i was happy when i saw the Mhi Motir a while ago. It is not for open space fleet battles in the first line, but as a kind of support. (outside scanner range, waiting for message to move in to counter enemy GB and Destroyer reinforcements)
Nevertheless any suggestion are appreciated to make it more attractive to Blood Dragon players, so they don't need to prefer other ships in pvp aspects.
These are the rarely used ones. Other models might get a small upgrade to give it a better pvp behavior, without making them uber.
Blood Dragon GB: size decreasing
Asgards: size decreasing (already done)
Fearless Zoner Dessie: Will be overworked (high polycount, not well skinned) Any ideas or suggestions?
Big Dragon: Will be overworked (high polycount, not well skinned). Its okay for a transport.
Legate Corsair BB: Its a BB with 16 turrets. Means big, but it is smaller than the (Star Wars) OC Dread. Only a bit wider. Nevertheless, any suggestions?
Praefect cruiser: Well lets test it with its flatter shape and turret positions.
Praetorian and Challenger: Don't know if they really need an upgrade. Size is okay for bombers i think. The Challenger has a non activated second turret hp with the ability to shoot forward.
Have i forgotten an existing one?
Stats and powersupply is not my concern, when it comes to modelling. This is the task of the communtity to find out proper, not uber, configurations.
Thanks in advance
AoM
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - frozen - 06-01-2008
ya know, its the not the ships i see a problem with, its the fact that there are all these beautiful ships youve made, but none of them have a decent hitbox to match. THATS my main concern with your ships AoM (no offence). seriously, if you could do something with the hitboxes, ure ships would really own. like, more time spent on churning out ships with hitboxes, instead of just making ship after ship?
now, for the ships i do fly, ill give ya some comments.
orca: i havent found the gun placements to be weird, but, the forward gun's arc is -pretty- messed up, as you have been made aware with so many posts (mjolnir tested it ingame with me. he was on his orca, i was on my royal liner, and he aimed at one of my turrets, but the fwd gun projectile wa off by like 2-3 inches, so to speak)
barghest: Mjolnir hit the nail right in the coffin with his suggestions, i suggest you go with those.
blood dragon togo: while you state that its a RP ship, i agree with you. the current HG faction rarely takes i out, save for certain times, or when they are practicing in 63. the ship itself, seems fine, though the best person to give you comments on it would be mike, or gezza, since they fly the battleship mainly ( the kana kieko was replaced for the oc bb, for a reason that i wont state here, and while i thought it was a wrong decision, i couldnt change the inevitable obviously, just for your knowledge.)
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - mjolnir - 06-01-2008
Blood Dragon Strike Cruiser- it is true that KNF doesn't use the one and only BS, but there are more than enough BCs trying to attack blood dragons all the time, I would keep it as it is but up the agility/turning to that of a Kusari dessie (now it's noticeably slower)
Orca BHG Gunboat - as I said to you in PM, I like the design and don't think it needs model change
either:
1. Fix the forward gun to have at least +5 firing arc up as well and up the turning speed a tiny bit
or
2. Drop the forward gun and let the turret behind the cockpit fire forward as well, no other change needed then.
Barghest Pirate Bomber - you already said it, I would actually love it like that, being different than other bombers and the best ship ever for pirating only
Togo Blood Dragon Dreadnought - no idea about BSs but it should be for fighting BCs and BS that dare come to Chugoku, so small and agile
Blood Dragon GB: hitbox needs size decrease/better fit, not the model itself.
Asgards: as you see in the bombers thread, better powersupply for Thor (Igiss), also maybe different hitboxes - Loki one is too high, the two others have Wrath one... wouldn't Avenger/Guardian one fit better? - being wide in the back as they are and not so high in the middle.
Fearless Zoner Dessie: - it uses resized CSV hitbox with a huge hole in the lower back, would be nice to cover that one.
Praetorian and Challenger - are both fine as they are, would be nice if you found a way to stretch the Templar hitbox to cover the ends of the wings on the Challenger. EDIT: on second look it actually does kind of cover them with the wings, so no big deal there.
EDIT2: The shield buble on the Praetorian is asymetric? or am I looking on the wrong thing? Also the hitbox could be a bit longer (front to back) to cover the fins a bit better.
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - gezza999 - 06-01-2008
Ok...
Blood Dragon Battleship: Sort out the hitbox, the back end of it needs some work. The firing arches also, need a lot of work. It's a pretty ship and all so I don't say that needs changing, but, as I've already said, firing arches of turrets, hitbox.
Blood Dragon Cruiser; I've seen a few around, again, the hitbox is a little messed up in places. I've personally not flown one, so I can't really comment, I believe Mike used to have one, so, I'd wait for him to comment.
Gunboat: Indeed, the hitbox needs sorting, again. I've not flown one, I'll see if I can get some comments from someone who has.
I'd check the hitboxes on ALL of the ships you've designed. A lot of them are pretty screwed up( No offence intended). Sort that out.
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - RingoW - 06-21-2008
BUMP
I am still waiting for more suggestions.
AoM
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - Tenacity - 06-21-2008
I love the blood dragon battleship design, it looks awesome...
but it's not available to other factions, and I cant afford to use one =P Blood dragons are pretty limited in their uses for a battleship. It wouldnt be so bad if I could figure out how to use it for a privateer or entrepeneur of some type, but I doubt the dragons would accept that.
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - Jinx - 06-21-2008
i haven t used many of your ships. - due to the RP restriction of my chars - i only had the opportunity to fly a praetorian lately ( liked it much, haven t seen any problems with it ).
- zoner destroyer: i must admit, i do not like the look of it. - it looks bulky and somewhat fuzzy or something. - i cannot easily describe why i don t like it much - i think its a subjective thing. - mind i don t like celery and meat either and cannot really tell you why.
- BHG gunboat: i m not fond of the speedboat theme. - easy as that. - but since i m not really a friend of any gunboat in general, i haven t used it.
- blood dragon gunship: from the rare occasions that i saw it in action, i find that it misses details - compared to - lets say the other kusari designs. it "feels" as if it is somewhat something like a kusari GB that is swollen up. - its wider, misses sharp edges that "flow" into curves etc. - on the other hand, it does look good. - but it looks clumpsy - when compared to the generic kusari GB, which is sleek, pointy, and sharp.
- blood dragon assault cruiser: - no idea why ppl don t like it, i think its a great design.
- blood dragon battleship: while i think that the BDs dont deserve a ship of that size - i still think that its the very best and most innovative custom design there is ( including all my concepts of course:laugh:) - it looks simply brilliant. - and if i found the dragons at least exciting in any way ( which i don t ) - i would most certainly play to gain access to one. - but everyone shouts at capships - so i most probably wouldn t - oh well... anyway - brilliant design, absolutely.
- big dragon: doesn t look like a transport to me. - its OK. - but i think i d like it to have a rougher texture.
- praefect cruiser: i allready wrote it in the thread where you presented the mk2. - i think its a piece of art. its a great design, solid as rock and it fits to the corsairs. - the new one is nice, but the current one is better.
- legate battleship: its used quite often - don t think there s a problem with it. i don t like the spikes, but thats just subjective - cause i don t like spikes on ships. /shrug
* * *
on a more general note:
texturing - most of your ships are - or appear to be textured in a similar manner. - the texture is "tiled" in very small pieces ( something i expect on very large and plain surfaces ) - but i cannot see the details of the texture from further away. - i think it would look better, when you applied the texture to larger parts of the model. - so that the texture itself shows more details. ( especially the zoner destroyer looks more like a patchwork cause one cannot really see the details from a medium range - its just a tan coloured skin )
style - your ships have a unique style, just like everyone elses ships. your ships are among the most " freelancerish " ones. - you manage to keep the freelancer feeling very very nicely ( except for models that are only slightly modified of course ) when it comes to fully new concepts. - of course that may sometimes appear to be somewhat "boring" - cause its nothing truely new. - but in the end, such designs have a much better longevity than sophisticated designs that are only slightly FLish.
to end it - i don t think your ships are at any rate unpopular - i even believe that out of all the custom models, yours are used the most. - so whats all the fuss about:)
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - Exile - 06-21-2008
' Wrote:Well, the most models i have made without any pvp experiences. Just was following the basic design concepts and had my thoughts about cultural, subcultural and economic backgrounds and some technically aspects of Freelancer factions. I have also put a lot of roleplay aspects into design, shape and size, but had to learn that pvp aspects are the more appreciated ones.
Ships that are rarely used:
Blood Dragon Strike Cruiser Basically it was meant to be the biggest Blood Dragon vessel until i got the request for a Dreadnought. I have made it with the background of Blood Dragons searching a way to counter KNF Battleships. Well, since KNF playerfaction don't use the vulnerable Kusari BB and the Catamaran does the anti cap job very well, the Cruiser is bad equipped against fighters with only 7 turrets. Makes it useless. Since the Cruiser is one of my early works (high polycount, not well skinned), i will have to overwork it. I would like to keep the basic design. There are 2 ways: A cruiser with 10 to 12 turrets or a smaller destroyer with 8 to 9 turrets. Do the Blood Dragon players want to keep the Forward Gun? (Igiss will slap me therefore) So ideas and suggestions, especially from Blood Dragon players are welcome.
Togo Blood Dragon Dreadnought This vessel was meant to be used rarely, but when even Blood Dragon players prefer the OC BB (Kana Keiko), something must be wrong. Its size is something between Osiris and Liberty Dread. They are equipped with 12 turrets, so the Togo is. I remember the discussion about it and to become Blood Dragon BB. Today i regret a bit, not making it a Battlecruiser. It is really a roleplay ship, so i was happy when i saw the Mhi Motir a while ago. It is not for open space fleet battles in the first line, but as a kind of support. (outside scanner range, waiting for message to move in to counter enemy GB and Destroyer reinforcements)
Nevertheless any suggestion are appreciated to make it more attractive to Blood Dragon players, so they don't need to prefer other ships in pvp aspects.
Cruiser : Its way too big. It turns like a brick, and doesnt have enough armour or guns to fend itself in stationary position. And the points Gezza mentioned.
Togo : We're using it as our flagship at the moment, but a slight armour or agillity increase might help alot. And ofcourse, the hitbox. Certain shots fly trough the back wing, and forward "hammers" EDIT: Allso, you dont see it out much, since im a -complete- nazi about that ship. I wont have any indi flying it, since were Blood Dragon's. Supposed to be low on money. So, that its not flown much is partially my fault. :laugh:
Gunboat : Its being used, but only by 1/7th of all the Blood Dragon's. Mainly because of its agillity, if say, compared to the Kusari Gunboat. If the two were to meet head on, the Dragon one should just stop moving and wait for death. Thats gonna take even more time than figthing.
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - Blodo - 06-21-2008
Asgard line: The ships are so disproportionate when it comes to comparing the front hitbox with the back that chasing someone with a few others means you will constantly bump into them. The behind is really large on the VHF and bomber. It's a minor problem though.
I still say the Thor should get a definite dodging or size reduction buff though, to keep it on par with other bombers.
Why do most of my ships suck or rather are dusty - RingoW - 06-21-2008
Thanks so far. Earlier models like the Praefect (Fearless, Big Dragon, Dragon Strike Cruiser) will get a revision.
I'm aware of the hitbox issues and i tried to choose the most fitting generic ones, but i will have to make custom sur's. At least a try i will give.
Concerning the Togo turret positions and orientation. I would appreciate a rough drawing by HG or anyone else, using the Togo.
Do not hesitate to post further suggestions.
AoM