Discovery Gaming Community

Before you read the whole text, remember this is coming from a guy who spends 80% of his disco time playing on the lawful side.


Over the last two weeks I tested unlawful gameplay in all Sirian Houses, and I can say this: it's horrible to play as pirate. Lawful NPC patrols are everywhere, and they're strong, stronger than in the previous version. While they already were nerfed, so group of few hostile NPCs can't deshield cruiser in no time anymore, they're still too strong.

What's the point of logging lawful ships and patrolling, what's the point of hiring Bunters by miners, if lawful NPCs provide constant, ever-spawning protection? Do the NPCs really need shieldbusters, strong mines and missiles?

I want to play with other players, not with NPCs, here's my (will be too drastic for some, I know) proposal - nerf NPC guns to level 1. They should have no impact on player-player interaction; should be mere decoration so the available world doesn't look "empty", but nothing more than that. Removing trade lines' defences is pointless if NPC patrol is able to deal far more damage than any trade line turret could ever do.


In my opinion current NPC level makes playing as a pirate nearly impossible. It disrupts traditional trader->pirate->navy food chain, removes antagonist element from it. An unplayable for the unlawfuls mod is a dead mod.

I don't think NPCs should completely destroy the ability of people to play as unlawfuls - but as far as I'm aware, they presently don't.

I do not think nerfing them to have no impact has any purpose. We may as well turn them off in that case, because they serve little purpose otherwise (other than mission and cheap-cargo piracy fodder).

Pirating in core systems should not be easy at all - if NPCs have no impact, three pirates when there are insufficient lawfuls online can shut down any and all trading through a system - which makes the traders log off, which leaves the pirates whinging about low server activity and the traders begging to nerf pirates.

Down from where the NPCs are now? Maybe; I'm not familiar with the NPC spawns. They should, of course, be weaker and less present in non-core/capital systems. But pirating in the middle of New York or any other capital should be hardly possible.

Edit: I've played unlawfuls. I stopped because of time demands and that I find it difficult to be mean even in roleplay >.>

Further editing: It's now blatantly aware that NPCs have been negatively impacting players, and so I'd be in favour of a rebalancing. However, I'd bet it's a more moderate balancing than the rest of the thread would intend.

Completely and whole heartedly agree. As I've said before it's not a PvE server. Challenging NPCs should be kept to places they're actually needed.

@ Champ

Imo NPCs should be only decoration, hence why proposal to nerf them to level 1 guns. They still would have their purpouse of looking nice, making people think available world is "full".

While Scyllas camping West Point or Manhattan are bad, it's no longer possible - have you seen how much station defences were buffed? On the other hand, Scylla camping lane between West Point and Norfolk is absolutely ok with me, if someone wants it removed, he should get few buddies, log and pew it.

Guys, don't let the NPCs do the work for you, don't let them steal player activity!

*raises his hand*

This guy speaks the mind of every one of us unlawful players.

I'm an Outcast for a start, I lead an Outcast faction. However, I love criminal RP on the whole and it's great fun to do everything from interact with the lawful side and end up in a big brawl or simply go trolling around, looking for trouble (my XA for example)

Now. Problem. NPC's. I get that capship patrols are realistically going to be patrolling house systems with big, dockable capital planets. That's fine. But if there's a fight going on between players, or just an interaction on the whole...it's incredibly invasive. I'd like to sit and chat, not constantly thrust around madly avoiding endless Cerbs, pulses and the like. It's no fun and I consequently have to rush the RP, typing quickly, making a mess of it and ruining it. It's no fun at all when the NPC's can insta you at the click of a finger. Then if a fight does kick off, it's still incredibly irritating as the Caps do not miss too often. Sure bad players will go hug them if they're losing but hey, dull down the cap patrols and PvP becomes even more balanced! Genius.

Back to Outcasts briefly. We asked for an IMG NPC nerf. We got it. Thank you. But then what, the Dev's go ahead and give more to other NPC's which just widens the issue rather than eliminating a what-should-be redundant part of the server. There are too damn many of the critters around those systems. It's not fun having to fight someone with 10 NPC's on your arse, not missing very often.

I agree completely with Pavel on this one. Sure, they've been nerfed to a degree but they're still invasive as hell and cause upset for us. Can we just step away from the realism of having patrols for one minute and recognise that this is supposed to be an RP server? Where players are supposed to be the main point of this concept.

To add to it. Why have insta-kill cruiser missile turrets spiralling out from Docking Rings? Why!? What's the need? Sure we shouldn't go near planets but getting round is otherwise extremely inconvenient for us. I'm sorry but I'm not prepared to cruise several "K's" out of the way to avoid 3 bases and a planet, especially when i'm trying to pursue a transport. On that note, WHY DO GATES TAKE OUT LANES. WHY. WHERE IS THE FUN IN THAT?! Dev's, sort it out please. It's unnecessary and kills any possibility of pirating in places where transports are regularly passing through.

It's single-handedly killing piracy. Trading isn't wholly balanced but what makes it easier? What decreases interaction? A lack of piracy. Why is there a lack of piracy? Because there is no motivation to log pirate characters. Why is there no motivation? Because we can't move 10 metres without being grossly cock-blocked by overpowered stationeries and swarms of "dulled-down" NPC's that, in a large bunch, can still cause a serious amount of damage. Think about RP for once. Not the fact that 10 year olds endlessly Q_Q about not being able to powertrade all day. No wonder Cap piracy occurs more often.

Oh and guess what? No unlawful activity = less lawful activity due to having nothing to do.

Yeah yeah, call it bias and all but if the predominantly lawful players are even complaining about it, then surely that's a sign that something's gone wrong somewhere. I could go on and explain each individual peeve that I personally have with each nitpicky little thing but I won't. I'm tired and it's 1:30am.

 
I don't agree with giving all NPCs weak weapons, it'll just defeat their existence entirely and will result in masses of them attacking each other without any reasonable damage being done.

I haven't really considered this from the perspective of using pirate transports or capital ships, but if I'm in a fighter then I just fly in a circle to avoid their fire. I can quite adequately fight against players whilst having umpteen NPCs attacking me as well. However, if I put myself in a transport, I guess things would change drastically. Even passing through the lanes whilst trading I can lose half of my transport shield to a group of NPCs, which isn't really a problem unless I'm being pirated for real. A pirate doesn't even need to make a demand, they can just disrupt a transport and let the NPCs take it out. I guess that is a problem, now that I think about it.

Now, I've always said that the day NPCs have no purpose in the mod is the day I quit. They're like a living part of the game to me, I interact with them as much as is possible. I recently tricked an LN guy to come to my aid on a lane; I was in no trouble at all, I had 8 Xeno NPCs with me and when the poor sod arrived he lost his shield in a matter of seconds. In any case, he duly blew me up so they didn't really have much of an impact.

But yes, they're quite a problem for transports and maybe that is something which needs to be looked at.

(10-30-2013, 02:37 AM)Pavel Wrote: [ -> ]On the other hand, Scylla camping lane between West Point and Norfolk is absolutely ok with me, if someone wants it removed, he should get few buddies, log and pew it.

A hispanic capital ship in New York? Really? Then the fundament on which we disagree is not the strength of NPCs, but rather the lore by which a Hispania cruiser manages to get into New York and then survive when noticed.

, I don't see what does not make sense about a pirate, a known criminal and presumably murderer, being shot down by whatever forces are present outside a capital planet. Sure, it's invasive, it's dampening your roleplay with a player, whatever. The fact is that it doesn't make sense for this criminal to be sitting comfortably having a chat outside Manhattan. In a less populated place - say, the Colorado side of the New York Jump Gate, "Ashcroft" could sit and have a word with the players. If you don't want a character to be shot when they're positioned next to the stronghold of a nation, you want a shady Freelancer, not a pirate or an Outcast.

MiniStryke Wrote:I'm sorry but I'm not prepared to cruise several "K's" out of the way to avoid 3 bases and a planet, especially when i'm trying to pursue a transport.

Any pirate willing to take that risk should be prepared to die. It's like running into a police station (Manhattan is a Police planet, NPC-wise) as a known, clearly identifiable criminal in an orange jumpsuit, chasing after some merchant who just ran there for safe haven, and then being surprised that you get caught. Don't be. It's a planet. It's defensible. If a trader manages to throw you off their tail, that's their win and your best bet is to chase them elsewhere, not charge defiantly into a hostile planet's reach.

Yes, the server is about roleplay. As part of that, the way the server acts has to be consistent with that roleplay - it has to make sense - meaning places that should logically, be heavily defended, are.

Edit: I always get the Scylla and Storta mixed up xD Replace Hispanic with pirate; the point remains.

Well I wouldn't want to make NPCs useless completely, but I agree that the snubs are too much. Twice now I've jumped to Coronado in my Pytho and lost my shield and a quarter hull to just two outcast snub NPCs before I get my wits about me, it sucks! And they swarm you like mad. I think the snubs should get a hit for a lot of reasons, but nerfing NPCs too much might be overdoing it, so I would leave the transports, gunboats and bigger alone. Just my two pence.

Scylla is Rogue/Molly Cruiser.

(10-30-2013, 05:52 AM)Champ Wrote: [ -> ]A hispanic capital ship in New York? Really? Then the fundament on which we disagree is not the strength of NPCs, but rather the lore by which a Hispania cruiser manages to get into New York and then survive when noticed.
(...)

Scylla is Rogue/Molly cruiser

And even if that was Storta, what's the problem? What lore are we speaking about here? That one which allows even minor pirate factions acces to capital ships, rivaling those of House navies ones? It's not discussion for that topic, but since Disco is light roleplay server, and almost everyone and his dog have acces to caps, there's nothing wrong in using them. If lawfuls want to get rid of OC capital in NY, they should log and destroy it, while getting in-game activity by doing so; they shouldn't let the NPCs steal activity from them, real players.