Please do not turn this into a flame-fest. The incident was still VERY, VERY, VERY fun for me (and probably all involved) eve nthough i died VERY, VERY, VERY quickly! :D
Gonna leave the details out on this one . . .
Simply put - Can a lvl 20 char in possesion of an id (anyone besides the civilian id) co-ordinate attacks on people engaged in the fight.
note for refrence - lv 20 char was shooting at others, but probably did not pose a threat as fas as his guns go. there were plenty of other targets around to do damage!:crazy:. also his attack was in rp, strictly speaking.
no, im not gonna report this - just cause he was willing to talk about it nicely; but one of the other sanction-happy types will probably get him on his other (multiple) infractions.
Okay, time to go back and see how it all turned out. Man that was fun
if the below 30 char has a civi ID, he is technicly not there - if he assists your enemies, its tough luck...
if he HAS an ID other than a civi ID, he is free for all anyway and the low level does not apply...
so - yes, a lvl20 char can coordinate an attack, - pretty much like a char in a camera ship ( which is permacloaked ) - or a char that is hiding. - you can do nothing about it... a lvl20 char with civi ID is immune... if you attack him, you violate the rules. - it might not be "sportive" or "nice" to do so as a lowbie char, but the rules are quite clear there.... he is not part of the ongoing roleplay as a char. - all you can do is ask him politely to stop actively supporting others.
You're a civilian with that ID. Act like one.
A civilian isn't going to run to the front lines and direct artillery, they're going to drop a brown note and run the other way.
No you're not a civilian contractor.
' Wrote:You're a civilian with that ID. Act like one.
Normaly the army grunts would tell him to shut5 up. but aybe this "civilian" really knows what he talking about. In RP terms an ex high-ranking officer maybe?
Technically the way the rules are written in section 6 all players under level 30 are off limits.
It was my understanding that, as Jinx stated, any player with an ID other than Civilian ID was fair game and part of server role play.
It is my intention to clear that up with the other Admins and get the rules modified to reflect the actual rule for this circumstance.
actually, if a civ lvl 20 was running the attack, i'ld call off all of my wingmates and leave the combat until the opposition grows a backbone.
or they should all get a Civ ID because they're lead by a civilian.
***The human received a cross light***
***The human***in his great weakness***died***
***The human***leads the DESECRATORS***He is DESECRATOR***
//OOC : i accidently launched a torp on him and he died. He wasn't moving and i didn't took my time to lock. But someone leading a fight is like engaged in the fight.
now that is a problem with the rule as such. - as a below level WITH a civi ID, he can do whatever he likes. he can shoot a player battleships shields for hours ( without effect ) any annoy the battleship captain into madness, yet the battleship must never fire back.
he can sit there and talk ... maybe even in RP ... and never be bothered.
he can.... lead a fight ... or scout for one, and killing him is a violation of the rules. - now its very subjective up to the admin if he - or if someone who killed him can be sanctioned for it. - when you take the rules literally, he is ... as a matter of fact .... totally immune. and if killed, he can report the killer for underlevel killing - as has happened before.
of course, a low level "should" not run into a firefight where he risks being shot dead. - of course a low level should not exploit the immunity to actually activly RP with others that benefit from this immunity ( like a scout or something )
but thats a lot of "should not do"s - we often hear that one wrong does not make up for another wrong. - in the worst case, both players would get sanctioned. one for underlevel killing, the other for exploiting the rules.
in a normal case though - nither of both would get sanctioned, as both should be aware that they have done something wrong. - the killer should ALLWAYS check the ID and level, no matter how thick the battle is.... the rules say that before a target is attacked, the ID MUST (!!!!!) be checked as well as the level.
the killed underlevel is aware ( for very certain ) that he exploited a rule and that he does actually deserve nothing better than to be shot dead. - but when we take the rules to the very letter..... the underlevel one has the rules on his side in that very case. - its not a good result there, cause it supports ooRPness, but still, the rules say that he has not done anything wrong.
Quote:so - yes, a lvl20 char can coordinate an attack, - pretty much like a char in a camera ship ( which is permacloaked
a camera ship can roleplay? o_O
Yes, camera ships can roleplay, search for Mwerte's posts in the roleplay forum and it should come up fairly soon.
As for civis in the middle of fights (leading them or not) methinks that while you shouldn't target them, if they get blown apart by being in the wrong place at the wrong time then its their own fault and nobody should get sanctioned for it. Same for people who like 'watching' fights. Either fight, or be on your merry way... it isn't good for the server load, and it certainly doesn't help the contestants when they have to remember "now is that guy the one who I don't shoot- oops, he's already out of sight, there goes my chance to torp him".
Its like someone wanting to have a picnic at Cold Harbor, between the armies as they lined up. How do you honestly expect people to feel sorry for you when they discover your bullet-ridden corpse?
There are a few exceptions- if you are fling torps all over the place near an undock point, you might easily accidentally dock-rape someone. If so, apologize and waive any legal rights you may have to forcing them out of system and re-engagement, etc. Pay for their b/b and/or cargo if you can and send them on their merry way. Can't expect people to know they are undocking into a warzone, most of the time when the heavy fighting goes on people focus on fighting rather than talking.
Manhattan is a special exception to that one. Don't fight over the docking ring there. Just, don't.