(04-15-2014, 06:09 AM)Saronsen Wrote: [ -> ]Zoners, Corporations that go to mining fields, most of the Omegas, systems like Alberta, half of Gallia. Do I really need to go on? This is why it's a bad idea.
Agreed..
and Those who power trade do not fly 30K below !!! I have never seen such except smugglers !!! And pirates are a rare sight to be seen other than liberty, I don't see why a hauler would cruise to a hole instead he can take the lane. Other than liberty, hardly anywhere there is a potential risk for the cargo !!! ...
Second.. we are already having a very marginal player base. 100+ at peak hours with over 30+ factions ... the transports after this idea, will be needing escorts which would need substantial number of players to be present at the same time, which I think would be difficult.
Thirdly, with this idea, we are literally taking the ability of a hauler to avoid getting pirated. Because once you see a pirate in a system, you got no way to run !! and I think Transports main role is to escape from pirates, and here you completely take that opportunity.
Lastly, even if factions will mould a escort group, Indies will suffer real time.. which further will lead to less haulers and more pirates... and finally the situation of the pirates now will be the replicated scene of traders later !!
Overally, a NO. . .
Untill 5kers got a cvargo hold of 20K+, its a NO
Give 5kers a hold of 20, but remove their thruster and the ability to cruise efficiently, basically giving them a barge engine. This would allow people to simply use the lanes and use them for that purpose.
Quote:Zoners, Corporations that go to mining fields, most of the Omegas, systems like Alberta, half of Gallia. Do I really need to go on? This is why it's a bad idea.
Zoners appears to be special case.
As rest, use 4300kers for those systems. Space outside of lanes is dangerous, battletransport will be good option.
One reason I do not play that much these days. Trade Routes. I trade just enough these days to feed my newly found Nova Torp habit and that is it. They just have not been fun and or interesting, have become more of a senseless grind, and do not seem to have any logic behind it that I can figure out. I stopped reading the Blog on it Months ago, so maybe things have changed, I do not know. The Idea, that Nerfing the 5kers to Barge level is going to bring more activity to the lanes is off the mark in my opinion. If you are going to do that....then give 5Kers a better chance to defend themselves instead of suck suck guns. The effort to drive player interaction towards the lanes just seems like another attempt to make it easier for pirates to camp and "Two Mill or Die" traders without having to worry about having to deal with refurbishing O2 or Fuel and or any interesting Role Play.
Pirates need to learn to hunt if Traders are avoiding the lanes. Simple as that.
(04-15-2014, 06:16 AM)sindroms Wrote: [ -> ]I think we should not forget that powertrading in its essence is not a bad thing.
It is the muteness and unwillingness for these players to involve themselves in the RP atmosphere that really ticks people off about them.
I could say I am a powertrader, because I need money for a roleplay character of mine and I simply grind through the process to get it. I take no pleasure in it and would spend as less time on a trader or miner as possible. It should not be forced upon, so any ''nerfs'' will simply have even less of a desirable effect on the willingness for people to sink time into the game at all.
I don't think that efforts should be towards discouraging powertrading, so much as encouraging trade to use the lanes when they're available - perhaps while keeping the time length for the runs to remain the same.
Actually, is it possible to make the lanes even faster?
(04-15-2014, 09:12 AM)EisenSeele Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, is it possible to make the lanes even faster?
That would be a much better option than nerfing the speed. Nerfing the speed basically means stealing the ability of a transport to run away from pirates !!!
(04-15-2014, 09:23 AM)Singularity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2014, 09:12 AM)EisenSeele Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, is it possible to make the lanes even faster?
That would be a much better option than nerfing the speed. Nerfing the speed basically means stealing the ability of a transport to run away from pirates !!!
Is that a bad thing, that 5ker couldn't cruise for hours into system wall?
(04-15-2014, 06:21 AM)Singularity Wrote: [ -> ]Transports main role is to escape from pirates,
This is why the mod is going down the drain.
@ Kazinsal, Saronsen
Grinding bases is not Discovery purpouse. At least shouldn't be. Still, except Zoners (which as I said are special case which'd be dealt with in some other way) no faction operating outside House space has acces to 5kers, so factions from Omegas, Omicrons, Taus etc wouldn't be affected. It's surprising Kaz to see base supply argument coming from your side though, as not that long ago you wanted to either utterly nerf bases or remove them completely.
@ Zelot
Not all "powertraders" use lanes and gates only, for pure credits/second efficiency. Metaphore about late night powertraders avoiding few remaining pirates was misunderstood - what I mean is general easiness with which traders can avoid pirates, and they do it.
@ Captain_Nemo
All liners are below 4.3k cargo hold size and as such wouldn't be subject to that change.
@ Xoria, Moriarty., Singularity
I'm surprised you don't like that idea, as it'd greatly help to fix one of Disco's great problems. Assuming that everything is fine if the best cash/time routes go through lanes is wrong. In fact, it's quite naive - it doesn't matter for someone with ore cargo worth 50M or more will he get to destination few hundred seconds faster or not; he just wants to avoid pirates.
Using holes to avoid ambush usually takes few additional minutes, but that's no drawback compared to loss of valuable cargo or hefty tax. And trust me, people do it. I did that as DHC in Leeds, when pirates hunted our convoys in .86, we dived 30k under the plane, and just cruised to Stokes. IMG to avoid getting caught by GRN on supplying Harris with Silver Ore used holes from Cambridge through NL, Edinburgh all the way to Tau-31 (they don't use 5kers anymore, but that's one of good examples how it's done). Naturally there's more instances, e.g. Samura with Platinum Ore flying through Chugoku-S13-NB route in the past version. And that's for few official factions only, while indie traders are vast majority, don't use tags and often rename.
Sure, that S13 hole shortcut was removed, very good, but the point stands - if some lawful trader in a 5ker wants to avoid pirates, sacrificing few additional minutes on flying through holes is viable for big transports and used by them method - it should not be. We lose players because of that, as no interaction occurs.
@ in general
I think you guys overestimate effect of that change. It will direct lawful traders with ships bigger than 4.3k to trade lanes mainly, where they should be. Loss of few hundred / ~1k cargo space for people going out of lane network isn't that big as you portray it.
Xoria, impact on cash/time profit also wouldn't be that big as you seem to think, distances between lanes rarely are longer than 4-5k max, with 2-3k being norm. Cruise engines barely speed up to 350 m/s on 2k distance.
(04-15-2014, 02:45 AM)Xoria Wrote: [ -> ]Basically already accomplished, where possible.
Mission accomplished, you made living (and boring hell) for everyone that would ever had use of jumpholes by putting even more useless space for them to fly. Why? Trade balance.
(04-15-2014, 02:45 AM)Xoria Wrote: [ -> ]A penalty to cruise speed would also mean an effective penalty to trade with such bases. Do the Taus, Sigmas, Omegas, and Omicrons really need fewer traders? Doubtful.
How can we kill something that is dead already? You did pretty much good job to deter everyone from Omicrons, speaking not only of traders. Overblown out of proportions, Lambda pretty much was created only to satisfy your mindless rage concerning some traders taking a shortcut through vanilia systems. How about nerf said cruise speed rather than make EVERYONE else suffer?
More empty space for trade route god, right?