This is something that came up while I was talking to Jinx in PM's about potential stat setups on the Junker Salvage Frigate.
The idea is to add a 'new' ship class (would be considered cruisers for classification purposes) that acts as a lower end battlecruiser. Jinx mentioned that the salvage frigate could hold up to 10 turret hardpoints on the model, so the suggestion was to make it a cross between a cruiser and a gunboat for firepower.
I think what I came up with was:
-Cruiser level shields
-2000~ cargo space (junker ship specifically, we have more use for cargo than others, this could be reduced on frigates used by other groups)
-Slightly lower hull strength than the average cruiser/destroyer, something around 175-180k, whereas most cruisers are 200-225k
-8 class 8 gunboat turret hardpoints
-2 class 9 cruiser turret hardpoints
-cruiser powercore (or maybe better, I actually think the cruiser core might be worse than the gunboat core right now)
The salvage frigate itself is almost exactly the same size and shape as the outcast destroyer (it's just a hair smaller, but hitbox would probably be the same I think), manuverability would probably be only slightly better than the OC dessie, not really enough to be noticable.
So, whatcha think about adding a couple more of these style ships to other factions? The main benefit would be very efficient weaponry, like the battlecruisers are privileged to - they can fire higher end weapons almost indefinitely without energy trouble, and can still handle a couple heavy hitters like light or heavy mortars when artillery power is needed. Other than that, the only real difference between this and a cruiser would be slightly lower cost (probably around 80-90 million as opposed to the average 110-120 million for cruisers).
Firepower would be less than a cruiser, as would armor - but perhaps this could be made up for slightly by having a higher number of bats/bots and cargo space than most cruisers have?
Yes and Yes, Yey and Yey for Frigate Classes.
Sounds good.
And make Freelancers able to fly em!:P
Lower end battlecruiser? I think they call those Cruisers... I just don't get it.
*shrugs and walks away*
Eh? 8 GB turrets? Well, who knows how those are gonna look like in 4.85?
So what, you'd be able to mount 8 freaking battlerazors? Or 8 GB Infernos?
Quote:-cruiser powercore (or maybe better, I actually think the cruiser core might be worse than the gunboat core right now)
It's worse.. For Cruiser guns, not for GB guns. With these 10 guns and Cruiser core you'd be able to shoot forever.
You'd also be able to mount 2 light mortars, 4 inferno's and 4 battlerazors, and do things you shouldn't do.
2.000 cargo is another point. It'd make an ultimate trading ship, not just a cruiser.
All in all, I am against introducing any new classes or subclasses until we fix the existing ones.
How bout just give it 4 GB turrets and 2 Crusier turrets.
Quote:And make Freelancers able to fly em! tongue.gif
They'd still be classified as cruisers, so no - not unless the freelancer ID is changed.
Quote:Eh? 8 GB turrets? Well, who knows how those are gonna look like in 4.85?
So what, you'd be able to mount 8 freaking battlerazors? Or 8 GB Infernos?
You're right, nobody knows what gb turrets will look like in 4.85. I'm assuming with this that they wont change much - but the idea isnt to use 8 razors/infernos, you use 8 consistent damage gb turrets (solaris, normal, etc.) but have the ability to equip a couple light mortars or cruiser cerberus turrets for your heavy firepower.
Quote:2.000 cargo is another point. It'd make an ultimate trading ship, not just a cruiser.
As I said, that was suggested for the junker version only, since as a faction our ships tend to be slower and weaker but have a large amount of cargo space. The salvage frigate in particular was originally planned (from what I got from jinx) to have a good amount of cargo space and a large number of bats/bots, but be able to equip cruiser cannons.
Quote:How bout just give it 4 GB turrets and 2 Crusier turrets.
6 and 2 maybe, but 4/2 would end up being less capable than either a gunboat or a cruiser. Keep in mind that these things arent going to have the manuverability of a gb, they need to survive long enough to put out damage - and that means doing more damage in a shorter amount of time.
Anyways, it was just a suggestion - the salvage frigate was already intended to have stats somewhat on this level (though less turrets, but all cruiser turrets from what jinx said), and isnt really meant to be set in any one ship class, since junkers build ships based on what they need and not on set roles. A junker ship isnt just going to be a gunboat, or a cruiser or a transport, it's going to be all of them to some degree - we'll never get a pure capship like most other factions get, but having a psuedo-capship with enough cargo to double as a medium transport or 'salvage' (aka mining) ship fits the faction.
the problem is that weapons are balanced not for the shipclass - but for the energy core they are meant to operate with. - the energy fore itself it also not balanced to the shipclass - but balanced so that its unique equipment cannot be used by other shipclasses. - thats why gunboats have a tremendous energy increase compared to bombers for example - not cause its logical that they have a bigger reactor, but cause they must have to operate forward guns - which fighters must not use.
the side effect is that weapons are more energy efficient the smaller they are. - so fighter weapons are the most energy efficient, with ratios like 6 : 1 ( damage : energy ) while battleship weapons are horribly inefficient with ratios like 1 : 20 ( damage : energy ). - in terms or RP that does not mean that the wepaons are "inefficient" though. they are just balanced towards the required energy measuring not the number, but the percent of energy used.
to get to the point - battlecruisers ARE a balancing problem right now, cause they have a three times larger energycore while being able to use the efficient destroyer / cruiser weaponry. - that leads to them being able to mount all cerberus. - but the cerberus energy cannot be made less efficient or the destroyers with their smaller core cannot use them anymore.
thats what hybrid classes can do to the balance, IF they do not have their own weaponry. - a frigate might work - but only if it had the very same energycore like gunboats - with more turret hardpoints. - that way the weapons would not need to be rebalanced, but the ship itself couldn t make a great use of the greater number of hardpoints.
hybrid ships would work perfectly well - if we had lvl11, lvl12, lvl13 etc. type turrets specificly made for each shipclass. - then we could make REAL destroyer turrets, real cruiser turrets, real battlecruisr turrets. - even real gunship turrets, real small battleship turrets and real large battleship turrets.
It's better to have Cruiser turrets then to mount all GB cerb turrets and spam around, which, btw, do more damage then any regular cruiser turrets.
So, it'd look like this. Full GB cerb turrets + 2 light mortars = pwnage.
Same problem as we have now with BC's.
I'm actually more for making it a handicapped cruiser, with cruiser guns only.
I dont think it would be that bad, the cruiser power core can only fire two light mortars and after those two, it's down to around 10-15% of it's total energy reserve, and the regen rate isnt great either, itll take a good 10 seconds of full regen minimum to be able to fire both mortars again.
EDIT:
Still, I suppose cruiser only weapons would work, and they'd just need to be more limited in number to balance the higher cargo space / bat+bot count / etc. maybe the salvage frigate should only have 6 or 7 cruiser grade turrets then...
Either way, I just hope igiss accepts the thing >.<