Discovery Gaming Community

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]That's how activity on disco works, activities are exclusive to the involved parties. You complaining about not interfering with JTs is like a Xeno complaining about not being able to interfere with Gallic affairs. Either make yourself relevant or don't bother at all.

Hardly, all positive disco activity involves multiple parties.
Or are you saying we shouldn't bother interaction with these people? Are you saying that, on a multiplayer server, we should leave these people alone and act as if they are not part of the RP environment?

They are part of the RP environment, called ambient life. You don't go around the street talking to every random passer by, you treat them as background and they treat you as background. You try talking to a random pedestrian and there's a good chance they will intentionally avoid you.

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]RENAME. Don't be in a (large) group.

Why do I have to rename?
Why am I not allowed to hunt them in a group?
Why am I not allowed to hunt them with my faction?
The Jump traders don't have to rename, and are freely allowed to do their activity in a group as well as being allowed to do it with their faction. As a player, why am I not allowed this luxury?
And weren't you telling me that I should hunt Jump traders in a group?

1 Because you are the agressor.
2 A group as in grouped in the chatlist. Use TS if you have to, just don't be pirate obvious.
3 You are allowed to have a faction ID without a faction tag, with the same people in your faction
4 JTs might want to rename but they don't because their activity does not have such a heavy emphasis on discretion. Pirates on the other hand is a good idea to change names and appearances often to catch traders off guard.
5 Refer to 2

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Take precautions. Don't tell me that you're somehow able to find traders without even a bit of metagaming, because when the server is 50 players the chat list is the only method to find interaction.

Allow me to take your post and rewrite it as if I was a Jump trader, giving another Jump Trader some advice:

Jump Trader Wrote:Take precautions. Don't tell me that you're somehow able to detect pirates without even a bit of metagaming, because when the server is 50 players the chat list is the only method to avoid interaction.

When I'm in the mood to RP and am prepared to lose my cargo, I will avoid the chatlist. However when I'm trying to get over with a long boring trade route I will be more attentive and do everything in my power to prevent getting pirated, or blown up so that I don't have to spend extra 40 mins of my life recuperating my losses. And part of the pirate-trader RP is the lack of interaction in which the Trader successfully averts the pirate.
Those seeking interactions in the right places will find quality RP. Those who want to force everyone to conform to their standards will be heavily disappointed.

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Otherwise, maybe we should just remove the chat lists, maybe that will be good for activity since it will force everyone back into liberty. In an confined area as small as liberty, no one will need to jump trade.

Doubtable, people would still Jump Trade, or at least try to.
In any event, isn't the solution I suggest much simpler?

Oh wow you're just really against other players making spacemoney. The only way you'll be happy is if everyone wasted their time on making money the pirate way - which isn't really a reliable source of income but then everyone would share your strifes and suffer as much as you do. The solution you suggest is as simple as determining an accused's guilt by rolling dice or flipping coin. Simple yes but unworkable for obvious reasons, such as Jump Trading being a good way to make money, for expensive gear such as bs scanners armor and other advanced equipment, as well as base-building in remote regions.

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of dinosaurs reminiscing about the "good ol' days" think today's youngsters have it too easy because of all this technology. But this technology didn't just fall out of the sky, someone had to put in the effort to make it easy.

What. I'm not sure what you're trying to say, other than how Jump Trading makes trading easier than it should be.

Just like how airplanes make getting from continent to continent easier than it should be. Next time you cross the atlantic take a cargo ship in the interest of fairness and balance, after all why do you deserve better treatment than "waterback" immigrants?

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Wealth in Disco is largely pointless since the most expensive battleship combo can be obtained for around 1.5b, which is much less than the required startup cash for a barge jumping kit.

Your point?

Someone else earning lots of money has little impact on you. You don't lose a leg when someone else makes a spacebuck. Unless you have empirical evidence that Jump Trading harms the server interaction, there's no reason to ruin the JT's day because you think their life is too good. And remember its you who is proposing the change so the burden of proof is on you, not just anecdotal evidence but statistical evidence that JT on a whole is doing more harm than good.

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Yes JTing might be a pointless activity and those involved might be better off RPing, but its their choice what to do with their time on Disco, and if they want to make 9999999999999 credits to fuel their fleet its their choice. These Jump Traders have EARNT EVERY INCH of protection by taking all of the neccesary steps to avoid getting pirated.

So are we now glorifying those who work 'tirelessly' at trading, only to end up buying the necessary equipment to remove themselves from the RP environment as much as possible, so that they can then make tons of cash and promote their bad behaviour to other players around them?
I'd say that a bunch of organized lolwuts who are neither interested in RP nor wish to participate in the RP environment are not entitled to earn anything.

I have 7x5 chars on the server. Not a lot, but my chars cover a lot of Sirius so I visit whereever in Sirius if I wanted to, gives me options. And by making spacebucks I can buy more ships which gives me even more options and thus more interaction.
And again, you are mistaken. People who successfully make money are entitled to earn that money which they make. Besides as you said JTs don't have interactions so how could they promote their "bad behavior" if they don't interact with their promotees first?

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]If you really, really, really want to pirate them, TRY HARDER. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES, (inrp) infiltrate their organization

Let me quote Omi's post:

(07-07-2014, 12:56 PM)Omicega Wrote: [ -> ]Watching the Texas jump traders relog, like, fifteen different ships each yesterday kind of put this in perspective.

Your average jump trader is a Cyrillic-only Russian with no ability to comprehend either the server rules or basic English, and with a huge dose of contempt for anyone who would dare get in between them, their scrap, their barge, and the Valetta mooring point.

Thankfully money doesn't buy you skill, and three or so Scyllas can dismantle the Russian lolfleet of one Ranseur, two Stortas, five/six bombers, a few Salvagers, a Tridente, an LAC, an LABC, and two Liberty Gunboats without even breaking a sweat

There may be legitimate uses of jump trading, sure, but I'd wager that the vast majority is endless expanses of Dmitris and Vladimirs RUSing their way to their 500th CAU8 lolbs.

Do you really think such people would be interested in taking up such complex RP?

And in general, such RP is pointless and it only ends up in ooRP hatred and further metagaming for both sides. Tears for all.

Ah, the ol ************, I dig. I think the obvious thing, as you seem to be suggesting, is to ban Russians from the server. After all I've seen Ageira JTs RP quite well in fluent English, so if "Cyrillic-only Russian" is the problem then a Cryrillic ban seems to be in order. After all Vladmir can't complain if he doesn't know the language yes? And if Dimitri has a problem he could take it up with his local embassy, surely someone at the Moscow German/English/American embassy speaks English and can tell him "his kind is not welcome".

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]send cloaked scouts,

We've gone over this already, they just F1.

And I've gone over this as well, if they notice the chat list then rename, if they F1 when your in radar range and they can see you then report.

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]get intel

So do I add them on skype in order to find out everything about them? /sarcasm

Why not, there's no rule against that (i think), and if you're willing to go to oorp lengths to ruin the JD4 just so you could "encounter" them with your pirate gank fleet then I don't see how far fetched befriending them skype-wise is. Maybe you'll find that these guys like the occasional "disrupted jump"

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]do absolutely EVERYTHING in your power because bank robberies aren't spontaneous, the successful ones take hard planning and immense strategy to pull off. On the flip side, all the bank has to do is to construct a really thick walled metal vault, among other precautions.

We've been over this. Disco =/= Real life

Stop saying "we've been over this" when you never provided a conclusive argument that actually settles the debate. Disco's RP is largely coherent logical storytelling, and people often inspire RP by real life, trying to see if they can apply the same cause and effect of current real world events into a hypothetical space age, and sometimes the answer is yes. The bank robbery analogy in this case is imo appropriate as bank robbery is as difficult as pirating jump traders, while your casual trade lane encounter is more like a mugging in terms of relative significance.
So, who gets to decide when should the game be seriously RP-oriented and when it should be more gameplay oriented? Answer: the server rules, which enforce a basic level of RP. Even though some players like to think of an RPers as actors, the difference between us and actors is that we have a control over our characters destiny, and we don't neccesarily have to follow a script if we don't want to. Acting is a job for a reason, don't expect anything above the basic RP reqs of the server rules.
Disco is not RL but it takes a ton of cues from real life, and being even just a bit like real life is neccesary for the RP component to continue to function.

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]So basically you want traders to give the OP advantage to you, because somehow your cause is superior to their cause, and somehow them being OP means its ok for you to take away their unfair advantage and give yourself the unfair advantage, instead of proposing a solution that gives both sides an equal fighting chance.

I put that into a PvP context in systems such as NY where people keep constantly jumping out of combat, refilling, then coming back.
Regardless, it's not an unfair advantage. If they're about to jump, there's nothing I can do to stop them from getting away. It's like firing CDs at a transport in cruise but they have no effect, even though you're e-killed right next to them.
And this solution does give both sides an equal chance, by eliminating the imbalance. Traders can just hire escorts, like the older times.

And I provided the Warp Trails solution. BSG, the cylons tailed the humans jump drives. SW, Fett tailed the Falcon albeit through a tracking device. Trek, the crew are able to analyze warp trails to figure out the rough direction of a jumped ship. RL, ppl can see where you went through footprints. It's a cool mechanic that would not disappoint the hypothetical effort gone into programming it.
Also stop reminiscing about the "older times" and get with the times. The imbalance is there because you aren't seriously deluding yourself with a persecution complex into thinking that a fleet of traders can somehow take on a fleet of combatcentric warships - even with escorts (unless ofc you're just really crappy players).

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]I'm impartial to JTs, but I'm partial to cool features, and I'm partial against unthinking feature removal threads such as these.

If you're impartial to them, then there's no point in you posting here in a discussion about Jump traders. I used to think JDs are cool, and I still kind of do. But seeing them used in such bad ways quickly made me change my opinion.
It's like your one of those drug groupies, who never actually takes the drugs. They're always like "Yeah man, LSD is cool. Have I done it? Nah, never".

Appreciation of an entity does not necessitate personal experience with it. I think space-ships are cool, but just because I have an idea about the harsh realities of space travel or even the negative implications - does not make these ships any less cool. What does change my opinion is the people who can't coexist with something that doesn't really affect them, like ppl who oppose gay marriage or abortions or swearing even though they totally have the option to ignore it if they wanted to.
I'm not like a drug groupie who says "LSD is cool"
I'm the person that says "the positive effects of LSD is cool, can we at least try to keep it, and maybe find another way to limit the negative impacts or look upon this as an opportunity to enrich the LSD experience even more"
And in the case of a computer game, yes we totally can.

Quote:Here's thought on fighting against Jump-traders:

1. Cloaks - find the jump ship and attack it before the traders are there.
2. Do #1 but without Cloak if you don't have it.
3. Follow the traders back to the Jumpship and attack it before it can jump everyone - also helpful might be to repeatedly ram the ships so they cannot get into place to all be jumped at once.

I decided to copy/paste this in case it got lost in the "battle of wall of text" between Lyth and IIce

And if they F1 when you attack ...Screen shot and report them. BOOM! Bad jumpers get punished.

No more jumpdrives that drag along nearby ships. Make carriers the only ships that are able jump, give them one gunboat docking slot and about 10 snub docking slots, and not enough cargo space to make trading profitable. Right now carriers or more or less battleships, which is kind of meh.

I dont get why we call Carriers, carriers. They are basically the same as a dreadnought. Why not make them into what they are? A carrier? Strip all weapons from it and make it vulnerable. Then add more Docking Bays, Armor, Cloak and Jumping capabilities. This way its doing its Job. Carry ships, cloak up, and jump into the battle.

Now this other idea may not be possible but its worth at least saying.
What if we had another equipment that could be mounted on any ship that Limits the cargo hold of that said ship. Without it the ship can not be sucked into the jump.
You could call it, Jump Stabalizer?

Something like that.

Nope.

Not going to work


Why dont we leave this alone?

Doing that will kill disco even more

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]They are part of the RP environment, called ambient life.

Ambient means something is there, but you just don't interact with it at your own liking. You can see it, but you don't wish to interact with it.
With Jump traders you can't see them. You don't get the choice of interacting or not because they either jump away or log off the minute you enter a system.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]You don't go around the street talking to every random passer by, you treat them as background and they treat you as background.

If I wish, I could start a conversation with the passerby, introduce myself. I could also punch him in the stomach, just because I feel like it. Although he doesn't have any personal significance to me, he's still there and I can still interact with him.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]You try talking to a random pedestrian and there's a good chance they will intentionally avoid you.

At least there was an encounter and interaction in the process. And if I want, although it's sinister, I can force him to interact with me.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]1 Because you are the agressor.

"Screw you, you're playing this role and you don't get options as to how you wish to roleplay. You have to follow a strict guideline if you wish to play your character. No freedom allowed"
I repeat, why are JTs allowed this luxury and aggressors are not?

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]2 A group as in grouped in the chatlist. Use TS if you have to, just don't be pirate obvious.

Not everyone has access to this. And you can't demand that people use a third party program for such a small activity.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]3 You are allowed to have a faction ID without a faction tag, with the same people in your faction

Factions such as JM are not allowed this luxury. But looking at the bigger picture, why can I show off my factions notoriety and do this activity when tagged? Yet again, I repeat myself, why aren't the aggressors allowed to be flexible with their roleplay, whereas the JTs can?

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]4 JTs might want to rename but they don't because their activity does not have such a heavy emphasis on discretion. Pirates on the other hand is a good idea to change names and appearances often to catch traders off guard.

Refer to what I said above. And you forget, it's not always about pirates. Lawfuls can be involved to if they wish to catch a foreign capital, or an illegal barge.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]When I'm in the mood to RP and am prepared to lose my cargo, I will avoid the chatlist. However when I'm trying to get over with a long boring trade route I will be more attentive and do everything in my power to prevent getting pirated, or blown up so that I don't have to spend extra 40 mins of my life recuperating my losses. And part of the pirate-trader RP is the lack of interaction in which the Trader successfully averts the pirate.
Those seeking interactions in the right places will find quality RP. Those who want to force everyone to conform to their standards will be heavily disappointed.

You don't get the choice, because as you said:

(07-07-2014, 02:13 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]1) Space is dangerous
2) Space ain't fair. Your pirate knows that, and so should you.

And if you can't handle it, log off. Read a book or watch a movie instead of doing something that ends up with your name in the sanction notices forum.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Oh wow you're just really against other players making spacemoney. The only way you'll be happy is if everyone wasted their time on making money the pirate way - which isn't really a reliable source of income but then everyone would share your strifes and suffer as much as you do.

Nope, I'm not against it at all. I actually make all my money via piracy: It gives me interactions with other players, it's fun and it's profitable if you know what you're doing. I actually find it better than trading, both in fun and profit.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]The solution you suggest is as simple as determining an accused's guilt by rolling dice or flipping coin.

No, I am not.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Simple yes but unworkable for obvious reasons, such as Jump Trading being a good way to make money, for expensive gear such as bs scanners armor and other advanced equipment,

OR
Make money and actually offer interactions for other players in the process, rather than spending all day with you and the same few people all day jumping your cargo back and force to make lots of money at the cost of RP on an RP server

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]as well as base-building in remote regions.

If you want to build your base in a remote region, you should take into account how the supplies aren't easily deliverable.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Just like how airplanes make getting from continent to continent easier than it should be. Next time you cross the atlantic take a cargo ship in the interest of fairness and balance, after all why do you deserve better treatment than "waterback" immigrants?

(yawn) another pointless IRL comparison to a sci-fi video game.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Someone else earning lots of money has little impact on you.

Precisely. This is a server built on interactions, such technologies SHOULD have a large, positive and noticeable impact on interactions and server activity. Yet, it does not. It simply allows a few people to stay closed in their own activity bubble without interaction with others for the whole day whilst making enough cash for a week of trade runs over and over again.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]You don't lose a leg when someone else makes a spacebuck.

No, I don't. But it reduces server interactions, which is the exact thing that is killing the server.
Sure, cancer starts out small, but then it spreads. And once it's taken over the majority of the body, then it's fatal.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Unless you have empirical evidence that Jump Trading harms the server interaction, there's no reason to ruin the JT's day because you think their life is too good. And remember its you who is proposing the change so the burden of proof is on you, not just anecdotal evidence but statistical evidence that JT on a whole is doing more harm than good.

*Sigh*
It also puts big powerful toys in the hands of newbies before they're ready to use them within the rules.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]And again, you are mistaken. People who successfully make money are entitled to earn that money which they make. Besides as you said JTs don't have interactions so how could they promote their "bad behavior" if they don't interact with their promotees first?

The people they bring with them into the jump trading encourage poor behaviour. Omi's post is proof of such, and I had another bad interaction earlier today too.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Ah, the ol ************, I dig. I think the obvious thing, as you seem to be suggesting, is to ban Russians from the server. After all I've seen Ageira JTs RP quite well in fluent English,

What Ageria JTs? Which is exactly the point. The people who do this are never seen, never heard of. There's no RP about them anywhere. They've removed themselves from the activity of the server and are focused on doing nothing but making money.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]so if "Cyrillic-only Russian" is the problem then a Cryrillic ban seems to be in order. After all Vladmir can't complain if he doesn't know the language yes? And if Dimitri has a problem he could take it up with his local embassy, surely someone at the Moscow German/English/American embassy speaks English and can tell him "his kind is not welcome".

The Admins were tempted to ban the entirety of Russia at one point, due to their behaviour.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]And I've gone over this as well, if they notice the chat list then rename, if they F1 when your in radar range and they can see you then report.

And I've gone over this again too. They just log off as soon as you enter the system.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Why not, there's no rule against that (i think), and if you're willing to go to oorp lengths to ruin the JD4 just so you could "encounter" them with your pirate gank fleet then I don't see how far fetched befriending them skype-wise is. Maybe you'll find that these guys like the occasional "disrupted jump"

What.
Are you seriously implying I should stoop to such low levels of ooRP and metagame in order to gain an interaction? That's the complete opposite of RP.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Stop saying "we've been over this" when you never provided a conclusive argument that actually settles the debate.

There's no need to. You can't compare a game to real life. Especially one where there's Jump drives, Jump gates, tradelanes, spaceships, aliens etc...

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Disco's RP is largely coherent logical storytelling

Not exactly. Your point is understood, however it implies that the human race right now is on the verge of Jump drives.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]and people often inspire RP by real life, trying to see if they can apply the same cause and effect of current real world events into a hypothetical space age, and sometimes the answer is yes.

I guess so, but as I said before, not exactly. It only takes a minor influence, but then applies the sci-fi setting to make it something that fits into Freelancer/Discovery.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]The bank robbery analogy in this case is imo appropriate as bank robbery is as difficult as pirating jump traders, while your casual trade lane encounter is more like a mugging in terms of relative significance.

I wish that was the case, however a bank can't just teleport away once it sees the robbers enter the county/state border.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]So, who gets to decide when should the game be seriously RP-oriented and when it should be more gameplay oriented? Answer: the server rules, which enforce a basic level of RP. Even though some players like to think of an RPers as actors, the difference between us and actors is that we have a control over our characters destiny, and we don't neccesarily have to follow a script if we don't want to. Acting is a job for a reason, don't expect anything above the basic RP reqs of the server rules.

The thing is, the Jump traders are the actors that never act with anyone. They're not even seen by the viewers of the movie/play (the players).

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Disco is not RL but it takes a ton of cues from real life, and being even just a bit like real life is neccesary for the RP component to continue to function.

Only to a point. Once that point is met, it stops. Hence why there's a difference between Disco realism and RL/21st century realism.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]And I provided the Warp Trails solution. BSG, the cylons tailed the humans jump drives. SW, Fett tailed the Falcon albeit through a tracking device. Trek, the crew are able to analyze warp trails to figure out the rough direction of a jumped ship. RL, ppl can see where you went through footprints. It's a cool mechanic that would not disappoint the hypothetical effort gone into programming it.

But you know, just try the simpler option. It's less of a headache for the devs, and is more guaranteed to solve the problem

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Also stop reminiscing about the "older times" and get with the times. The imbalance is there because you aren't seriously deluding yourself with a persecution complex into thinking that a fleet of traders can somehow take on a fleet of combatcentric warships - even with escorts (unless ofc you're just really crappy players).

Get with the times? Get with the times of what lol.
Low standards of RP?
People who don't care to follow the rules?
People who don't actually contribute to the RP environment?
Features of the server becoming staler with each passing day?

Disco needs change. I'm not saying I'm some sort of messiah who's going to save it with his genius suggestions, but I just want to try as much as I can to turn this mod into something much more.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Appreciation of an entity does not necessitate personal experience with it. I think space-ships are cool, but just because I have an idea about the harsh realities of space travel or even the negative implications - does not make these ships any less cool.

Guns are cool. They can still do harm though.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]What does change my opinion is the people who can't coexist with something that doesn't really affect them, like ppl who oppose gay marriage or abortions or swearing even though they totally have the option to ignore it if they wanted to.

Whilst I won't offer my opinion on the two things you've mentioned above, in this context Jump Trading does affect the server as a whole. You can simply read the posts further back in the thread to see why.

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not like a drug groupie who says "LSD is cool"
I'm the person that says "the positive effects of LSD is cool, can we at least try to keep it, and maybe find another way to limit the negative impacts or look upon this as an opportunity to enrich the LSD experience even more"
And in the case of a computer game, yes we totally can.

You missed my point. You can say LSD is cool as much as you like and that it does this or does that. If you haven't tried it though, you can't really form an opinion on the matter.

(07-08-2014, 09:32 PM)Freeroamer Wrote: [ -> ]Nope.

Not going to work


Why dont we leave this alone?

Doing that will kill disco even more

I find your opinion fairly biased, considering you were in RS. And RS are the worst example of jump traders.


And as a question to both Freeroamer and to all of you, what does this suggestion kill that can't simply be replaced by normal trading?

To the notion of making Carriers weaponless - what Military warship is completely weaponless? Ridiculous notion and suggestion. Now, maybe an argument can be made for less weapons, or maybe no heavy weapon slots whatsoever, but not weaponless.

That is all.

This thread has devolved into some form of microscope-focusing, nit-picking, failing-utterly-to-even-attempt-to-see-the-other-guy's-point-of-view, farce of an argument.
Everyone lost this argument too, because it fragmented so badly as to be hardly worth bothering to read past page 9, 10 if you're unstable to begin win.
Let's just admit there is no consensus, and there are as many ways to play Disco as there are players (Maybe more...) and move on?
Cause there's gonna be no clear decision from this, just more thinly veiled insults and jabs at people who already clearly don't like each other.
(For Saronsen, this is everyone, 'cause he don't like noone)

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]They are part of the RP environment, called ambient life.

Ambient means something is there, but you just don't interact with it at your own liking. You can see it, but you don't wish to interact with it.
With Jump traders you can't see them. You don't get the choice of interacting or not because they either jump away or log off the minute you enter a system.

I could say the same thing about JTs won't just interact with you at your own liking. The thing you seem to be confused is that all the players come here to serve your personal entertainment - traders exist for the SOLE PURPOSE of being pirated, and cops exist for the SOLE PURPOSE of providing a cat and mouse game afterwards. Unfortunately for you, we are not NPCs and we don't play to lose, unlike NPCs. You want to successfully pirate then go play SP or do NPC cargo piracy. They exist for the sole purpose of your entertainment. We PLAYERS, ie. HUMAN BEINGS on the other hand exist for the purpose of OUR OWN entertainment, and we will not give you YOUR entertainment when it is mutually exclusive to OUR OWN enjoyment of the game.
IF say they logged off then at least you delayed them from making a profit with your presence. And that is the extent of your influence. In the rare times when I'm aware enough to spot a pirate at a choke point, I log off immediately as part of damage control. Smart people don't take risks. Smart people take the steps to minimize risk, as you expressed yourself jump trading isn't de-facto riskless, JTs have to make the effort to go 40k off plane and be constantly aware of their system environment.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]You don't go around the street talking to every random passer by, you treat them as background and they treat you as background.

If I wish, I could start a conversation with the passerby, introduce myself. I could also punch him in the stomach, just because I feel like it. Although he doesn't have any personal significance to me, he's still there and I can still interact with him.
At least there was an encounter and interaction in the process. And if I want, although it's sinister, I can force him to interact with me.

You force that interact then you get the consequence of lawsuit, jail time, rehab etc.
You force an interaction with JTs and you get the consequence of never being fast enough to catch them before they F1 or jump away. THESE ARE THE CONSEQUENCES.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]1 Because you are the agressor.

"Screw you, you're playing this role and you don't get options as to how you wish to roleplay. You have to follow a strict guideline if you wish to play your character. No freedom allowed"
I repeat, why are JTs allowed this luxury and aggressors are not?

Jump Traders don't go around shooting up pirates and ruining their day.
You know, "tactics" is a thing, ofc I don't expect you to understand.
My RNC could also complain that Texas raids restrict my playstyle, that I'm forced to go through the process of cloaking and stalking in an effort to make a kill because I am forced to use the element of surprise as the weaker force.
PUT YOUR ACTIONS IN RP CONTEXT, dude.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]2 A group as in grouped in the chatlist. Use TS if you have to, just don't be pirate obvious.

Not everyone has access to this. And you can't demand that people use a third party program for such a small activity.

You're right, I can't demand that people use a 3rd party program in order to better coordinate their efforts in a more efficient and tactful manner. BUT, YOU can't demand that Jump Traders knowingly put themselves at unnecessary risk just for the sake of "encounter", when they are perfectly in their rights to avoid it.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]3 You are allowed to have a faction ID without a faction tag, with the same people in your faction

Factions such as JM are not allowed this luxury. But looking at the bigger picture, why can I show off my factions notoriety and do this activity when tagged? Yet again, I repeat myself, why aren't the aggressors allowed to be flexible with their roleplay, whereas the JTs can?

Then don't pirate jump traders while carrying your faction tag. Besides, that isn't the only way to show off noteriety, you could eg after successfully pirating JTs, say "the JM send their greetings".
Suppose Russian SU27s flew over US airspace, carrying nukes with a heading towards washington in their shiny Russian IFFs and no attempt at stealth. You suppose the US military will notice that noteriety and do something about it yes? Maybe shoot down the SU27s, or put Obama and his family into a secure bomb shelter, or get him on a transport to leave washington? They won't just sit there and let you bomb the president in the interest of "encounter".

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]4 JTs might want to rename but they don't because their activity does not have such a heavy emphasis on discretion. Pirates on the other hand is a good idea to change names and appearances often to catch traders off guard.

Refer to what I said above. And you forget, it's not always about pirates. Lawfuls can be involved to if they wish to catch a foreign capital, or an illegal barge.

Lawfuls have to be tactful as well. Obvious narc is obvious. Obvious narc doesn't get the drug bust.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]When I'm in the mood to RP and am prepared to lose my cargo, I will avoid the chatlist. However when I'm trying to get over with a long boring trade route I will be more attentive and do everything in my power to prevent getting pirated, or blown up so that I don't have to spend extra 40 mins of my life recuperating my losses. And part of the pirate-trader RP is the lack of interaction in which the Trader successfully averts the pirate.
Those seeking interactions in the right places will find quality RP. Those who want to force everyone to conform to their standards will be heavily disappointed.

You don't get the choice, because as you said:

(07-07-2014, 02:13 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]1) Space is dangerous
2) Space ain't fair. Your pirate knows that, and so should you.

And if you can't handle it, log off. Read a book or watch a movie instead of doing something that ends up with your name in the sanction notices forum.

At the moment its you who can't handle the unfairness of space, which is why you're trying to tip the game in your balance.
ps. Are you threatening me with a sanction? LOL.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Oh wow you're just really against other players making spacemoney. The only way you'll be happy is if everyone wasted their time on making money the pirate way - which isn't really a reliable source of income but then everyone would share your strifes and suffer as much as you do.

Nope, I'm not against it at all. I actually make all my money via piracy: It gives me interactions with other players, it's fun and it's profitable if you know what you're doing. I actually find it better than trading, both in fun and profit.

Then what's the problem. Surely Jump traders are largely the minority. If a mugger can't handle the national bank then he should stick to the streets, which are plentiful of pedestrians.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]The solution you suggest is as simple as determining an accused's guilt by rolling dice or flipping coin.

No, I am not.

How do you solve the homeless problem? Kill the homeless! Sure we could try social reform and attempt to provide aid and job oppurtunities for the homeless, maybe get some of them off their drug habit, but that costs money and time so isn't the guillotine much simpler?

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Simple yes but unworkable for obvious reasons, such as Jump Trading being a good way to make money, for expensive gear such as bs scanners armor and other advanced equipment,

OR
Make money and actually offer interactions for other players in the process, rather than spending all day with you and the same few people all day jumping your cargo back and force to make lots of money at the cost of RP on an RP server

That's the RIAA mindset right there. Your LACK OF GAIN =/= your LOSS.
Besides from the way it seems you don't give a crap about RP. RP, even if confined to within a group is still RP. Just because YOU don't see it doesn't mean it ain't there.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]as well as base-building in remote regions.

If you want to build your base in a remote region, you should take into account how the supplies aren't easily deliverable.

I could say the same thing about JT piracy.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Just like how airplanes make getting from continent to continent easier than it should be. Next time you cross the atlantic take a cargo ship in the interest of fairness and balance, after all why do you deserve better treatment than "waterback" immigrants?

(yawn) another pointless IRL comparison to a sci-fi video game.

You don't see the relevance then go back and read:

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 03:55 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of dinosaurs reminiscing about the "good ol' days" think today's youngsters have it too easy because of all this technology. But this technology didn't just fall out of the sky, someone had to put in the effort to make it easy.

What. I'm not sure what you're trying to say, other than how Jump Trading makes trading easier than it should be.

specfically the part where you say

(07-08-2014, 04:57 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]Jump Trading makes trading easier than it should be.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Someone else earning lots of money has little impact on you.

Precisely. This is a server built on interactions, such technologies SHOULD have a large, positive and noticeable impact on interactions and server activity. Yet, it does not. It simply allows a few people to stay closed in their own activity bubble without interaction with others for the whole day whilst making enough cash for a week of trade runs over and over again.

Activity within an isolated activity bubble is still activity. Maybe you're just really, really lonely despite all your JM friends. Do you guys not RP in your own group chat where noone else can see?

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]You don't lose a leg when someone else makes a spacebuck.

No, I don't. But it reduces server interactions, which is the exact thing that is killing the server.
Sure, cancer starts out small, but then it spreads. And once it's taken over the majority of the body, then it's fatal.

No, the loss of activity is killing the server. Jump trading is activity, it is helping the server.
Don't compare JTs to cancer because there is insufficient correlation between the two. I'd like to remind you of the various final nail threads where everything was as some point blamed for being cancer of disco.
A repairman sees the chink in the armor as another job where he tries to return it to around 90% its original shape by hammering it back to its old shape. An innovator sees the chink in the armor as an opportunity to improve the armor design as a whole.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]*Sigh*
It also puts big powerful toys in the hands of newbies before they're ready to use them within the rules.

Since 1 black guy is a criminal, therefore ALL blacks should go to jail, and the blacks have no one to blame but themselves.
These guys also jump trade. I say we're even stevens.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]And again, you are mistaken. People who successfully make money are entitled to earn that money which they make. Besides as you said JTs don't have interactions so how could they promote their "bad behavior" if they don't interact with their promotees first?

The people they bring with them into the jump trading encourage poor behaviour. Omi's post is proof of such, and I had another bad interaction earlier today too.

Then stop going there. If you don't like offensive jokes then don't go to a offensive comedian.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Ah, the ol ************, I dig. I think the obvious thing, as you seem to be suggesting, is to ban Russians from the server. After all I've seen Ageira JTs RP quite well in fluent English,

What Ageria JTs? Which is exactly the point. The people who do this are never seen, never heard of. There's no RP about them anywhere. They've removed themselves from the activity of the server and are focused on doing nothing but making money.

"What JMs? My RNC who permanently resides on planet hamburg never encounters a JM. JMs must not be having any interactions then. "
"But, but the kudos threads and the rp threads and the chat list???"
"Well you're not having any interactions with me, therefore you are removed from the server."
Do you see how retarded this line of reasoning is. Just because they don't contribute to YOU doesn't mean they don't contribute to the SERVER

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]so if "Cyrillic-only Russian" is the problem then a Cryrillic ban seems to be in order. After all Vladmir can't complain if he doesn't know the language yes? And if Dimitri has a problem he could take it up with his local embassy, surely someone at the Moscow German/English/American embassy speaks English and can tell him "his kind is not welcome".

The Admins were tempted to ban the entirety of Russia at one point, due to their behaviour.

Then ban the Russians if you genuinely think that discrimination is the answer. IN FACT, why not make the server passworded and require all entrants to submit their english SAT scores or writing degrees eh? Let's close off the server to only the worthy, yeh? Surely THAT will boost server activity.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]And I've gone over this as well, if they notice the chat list then rename, if they F1 when your in radar range and they can see you then report.

And I've gone over this again too. They just log off as soon as you enter the system.

Then don't enter the system as "you".

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Why not, there's no rule against that (i think), and if you're willing to go to oorp lengths to ruin the JD4 just so you could "encounter" them with your pirate gank fleet then I don't see how far fetched befriending them skype-wise is. Maybe you'll find that these guys like the occasional "disrupted jump"

What.
Are you seriously implying I should stoop to such low levels of ooRP and metagame in order to gain an interaction? That's the complete opposite of RP.

Yes. That is exactly what you are doing. I'm not just implying it, I'm directly stating it.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Stop saying "we've been over this" when you never provided a conclusive argument that actually settles the debate.

There's no need to. You can't compare a game to real life. Especially one where there's Jump drives, Jump gates, tradelanes, spaceships, aliens etc...

Argument is all logic. If you're unwilling or unable to apply logic to a hypothetical context then there really is no point for a debate is there? Every change requires a reason. You fail to provide that reason then the change will fail to go through.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Disco's RP is largely coherent logical storytelling

Not exactly. Your point is understood, however it implies that the human race right now is on the verge of Jump drives.

No I'm just applying the logic within the lore parameters, the willful suspension of disbelief. However your thread involves aspects that do not necessitate suspension of disbelief.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]and people often inspire RP by real life, trying to see if they can apply the same cause and effect of current real world events into a hypothetical space age, and sometimes the answer is yes.

I guess so, but as I said before, not exactly. It only takes a minor influence, but then applies the sci-fi setting to make it something that fits into Freelancer/Discovery.

How do you know what the future is going to be like? I suspect nobody can accurately forsee what 50 years from now will be like. In that respect, Disco and FL is modern concepts packaged into a space-age setting.
It is my personal belief that human-on-human violence will be greatly reduced in the future but that's just me, and I'm willing to suspend that belief in order to play the war aspects of this game.
If you can't apply actions and consequences to a RP game then I'm sorry but you can't RP and should get off this server. Roleplay involves taking on the perspective of a certain role and enacting the various actions and reactions involved in that role.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]The bank robbery analogy in this case is imo appropriate as bank robbery is as difficult as pirating jump traders, while your casual trade lane encounter is more like a mugging in terms of relative significance.

I wish that was the case, however a bank can't just teleport away once it sees the robbers enter the county/state border.

A bank can go into lockdown if they deem it neccesary. They could even call in the national guard and that would pretty much make the bank impenetrable, UNLESS your robbers play it real smart.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]So, who gets to decide when should the game be seriously RP-oriented and when it should be more gameplay oriented? Answer: the server rules, which enforce a basic level of RP. Even though some players like to think of an RPers as actors, the difference between us and actors is that we have a control over our characters destiny, and we don't neccesarily have to follow a script if we don't want to. Acting is a job for a reason, don't expect anything above the basic RP reqs of the server rules.

The thing is, the Jump traders are the actors that never act with anyone. They're not even seen by the viewers of the movie/play (the players).

They are seem by the viewers of themselves. The only perspective that matters is their own. I play this game for my own enjoyment, not solely for the entertainment of others.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Disco is not RL but it takes a ton of cues from real life, and being even just a bit like real life is neccesary for the RP component to continue to function.

Only to a point. Once that point is met, it stops. Hence why there's a difference between Disco realism and RL/21st century realism.

Logic is universal and applies everywhere. Just because disco is in a fantasy setting does not mean it looses all sense of logic.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]And I provided the Warp Trails solution. BSG, the cylons tailed the humans jump drives. SW, Fett tailed the Falcon albeit through a tracking device. Trek, the crew are able to analyze warp trails to figure out the rough direction of a jumped ship. RL, ppl can see where you went through footprints. It's a cool mechanic that would not disappoint the hypothetical effort gone into programming it.

But you know, just try the simpler option. It's less of a headache for the devs, and is more guaranteed to solve the problem

You know, we could try the simpler option of removing the pirates and that would be as much of a solution as yours, which is to say not at all. Simple is worthless if it doesn't fully resolve the issue.
How do you solve the problem of the jumping feature not being available to transports that are much smaller than your average battleship?

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Also stop reminiscing about the "older times" and get with the times. The imbalance is there because you aren't seriously deluding yourself with a persecution complex into thinking that a fleet of traders can somehow take on a fleet of combatcentric warships - even with escorts (unless ofc you're just really crappy players).

Get with the times? Get with the times of what lol.
Low standards of RP?
People who don't care to follow the rules?
People who don't actually contribute to the RP environment?
Features of the server becoming staler with each passing day?

Check disco's Product lifecycle.
low standards of RP are OK because we are not real actors and we didn't come here to get yelled at by a whiny director. Here's a deal, pay me some actor $$$ (as in real money), and I guarantee that I will put in 100% quality RP.
People who don't follow rules report them. People who follow the rules have every right to do what they do.
A society should not judge people based on their contribution, this thatcherite idealism discriminates based on perceived worth, without respecting the sanctity of basic player's rights. I didn't come here to work. Besides, if you think the server is degrading then check the kudos thread. Observe the ratio of isolated positive incidents to isolated negative incidents.
Funny thing you should mention features of the server becoming staler because your suggestion of removing JTs is just going to make it more so. If the server doesn't have interesting new features then its easy for people to lose interest especially in such an old game. Warp trails can inject new life into certain aspects of gameplay. You suggestions will just send players to the slaughterhouse and make sure they never come back again.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]Disco needs change. I'm not saying I'm some sort of messiah who's going to save it with his genius suggestions, but I just want to try as much as I can to turn this mod into something much more.

How is removal of a feature turning the mod into something more?
Adding a new mechanic is what will ACTUALLY turn the mod into something more.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]Appreciation of an entity does not necessitate personal experience with it. I think space-ships are cool, but just because I have an idea about the harsh realities of space travel or even the negative implications - does not make these ships any less cool.

Guns are cool. They can still do harm though.

Then let's just delete Disco, since it makes you QQ so much.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]What does change my opinion is the people who can't coexist with something that doesn't really affect them, like ppl who oppose gay marriage or abortions or swearing even though they totally have the option to ignore it if they wanted to.

Whilst I won't offer my opinion on the two things you've mentioned above, in this context Jump Trading does affect the server as a whole. You can simply read the posts further back in the thread to see why.

"jump traders are bad because they aren't doing anything for me"
Here's food for thought, think of how removal of jump trading affects the server as a whole. Think real hard.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 06:27 PM)lIceColon Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not like a drug groupie who says "LSD is cool"
I'm the person that says "the positive effects of LSD is cool, can we at least try to keep it, and maybe find another way to limit the negative impacts or look upon this as an opportunity to enrich the LSD experience even more"
And in the case of a computer game, yes we totally can.

You missed my point. You can say LSD is cool as much as you like and that it does this or does that. If you haven't tried it though, you can't really form an opinion on the matter.

orly.
actually, any person can , based on his knowledge and existing evidence and the validity of said evidence, make an educated judgement of something he is detached from.
What you're saying is that "how do you know getting your penis cut off is bad if you haven't even tried it yet? You can't really form an opinion on the matter" when in fact based in existing information on the sensitivity of the groin, the pleasures of sex and stuff on ghost limbs etc provide ample information on the matter, so I can say for certain I don't want my wee-wee chopped off despite never having experienced it.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2014, 09:32 PM)Freeroamer Wrote: [ -> ]Nope.

Not going to work


Why dont we leave this alone?

Doing that will kill disco even more

I find your opinion fairly biased, considering you were in RS. And RS are the worst example of jump traders.

And since Somalia pirates are black, therefore blacks are the worst humans, and we should ignore whatever blacks have to say.

(07-08-2014, 11:39 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]And as a question to both Freeroamer and to all of you, what does this suggestion kill that can't simply be replaced by normal trading?

time, effort, and spending our time on the important stuff.
People who enjoy the trader-pirate RP will still take to the lanes. People who just want to get the moneymaking bit over with will choose the most efficient method of doing so.