Discovery Gaming Community

WARNING - this thread is not meant to be about Nebula Complex siege. If you want to discuss this (and very likely start flame war about it), go away and make your own thread. Also, fyi I wasn´t part of that siege.

Alright, now to the issue - about hour or two ago there was base siege in Kyushu where RM ships took place after they were asked for help by Kusari (see here). After some time siege was "dismissed" by one of admins through console which said

Quote:CONSOLE: Lots of out of ZOI ships in Kyushu. We suggest going home before you get moved.

I´m not going to make any opinions about Kyushu siege. But it raised one question - if properly RPed agreements can override IDs or not. I´m not speaking much about Kyushu siege because this was extreme case with one inviting message to very far part of Kusari and we can say this really was questionable inRP (to move massive Rheinland fleet far far far away into Kusari).

But there are others. More than year ago Rheinland and Kusari which are known friendlies/almost allies negotiated and signed Co-operative treaty (see here) where they allowed each other to patrol first closest system of each other - Honshu and Frankfurt - and enforce local laws here and generally help each there mutually. There were also some proposals for doing the same for police, making "cross-border police system" to help each other as well.

My question mainly to admins but also open for dicussion is - can properly RPed agreements override ID ZOI restrictions or not? Or only with admin approval? Or the rules are strictly "what is not on ID is not allowed"? And if yes, can official factions ask for change of their ID (and it would be nice if faster than one time each update to reflect the change...)?

Because for example mentioned military cooperation treaty exists for more than year, it is even included in laws of both houses and was used more than once. If somebody will be shot by RM in Honshu or by KNF in Frankfurt and he will report it, will there be punishments for this? Because formally it is engaging outside ZOI as IDs say that respective ZOI of both is "systems directly bordering Rheinland" which Honshu is not and "systems directly bordering Kusari" which Frankfurt is not as well (ZOI of both ends in Sigma-13 by ID).

I strongly believe that so long as proper roleplay behind it, ZoI violations should be fine within the bounds of said roleplay.

The rules should exist to promote gameplay, content, and creativity. There are situations that call for such a rule to exist, for example the stupidity of seeing corsair caps raiding Liberty. However, proper roleplay should bring about changes to ZoIs, not the other way around with ZoIs restricting roleplay.

(10-30-2014, 08:40 PM)Lobster Wrote: [ -> ]I strongly believe that so long as proper roleplay behind it, ZoI violations should be fine within the bounds of said roleplay.

The rules should exist to promote gameplay, content, and creativity. There are situations that call for such a rule to exist, for example the stupidity of seeing corsair caps raiding Liberty. However, proper roleplay should bring about changes to ZoIs, not the other way around with ZoIs restricting roleplay.

In your case it would have promoted destruction, not creativity.

I'm for it, but I don't expect it to be simple. We'd need to define "properly role-played". I'm not for making it an official faction-only perk.

(10-30-2014, 08:41 PM)Thunderer Wrote: [ -> ]I'm for it, but I don't expect it to be simple. We'd need to define "properly role-played". I'm not for making it an official faction-only perk.

So basically it would be a SRP request for a ZoI change , involving some specified ID´s and / or faction TAg´s for a predefined timespan ?

Sounds good, actually.
That way there would be possibility to check it from Admin side, there would be a certain amount of RP minnimum involved, and it would act as a money sink.

2 cents

Admin approved events where ZoI rules doesn't exist for designated factions is the easiest solution.

Gives chances for all parties to attack and defend bases or just have chaotic engagement that crashes the server.

We had a discussion on it at the time of its first approval. The items where it says "Rh allowed to patrol Honshu and enforce Kusari law" and "Ku allowed to patrol Frankfurt and enforce Rheinland law" are no valid as per both IDs, since its out of their ZoI. The only option where a rheinland ship can fight in honshu, or a kusari ship fight in frankfurt, is when the engagement starts inside their ZoI (probably sig13). If the engagement started before, and then there was a pursuit to the next system, then that is perfectly fine as far as I understand the server rules.

(10-30-2014, 08:50 PM)david.starr Wrote: [ -> ]We had a discussion on it at the time of its first approval. The items where it says "Rh allowed to patrol Honshu and enforce Kusari law" and "Ku allowed to patrol Frankfurt and enforce Rheinland law" are no valid as per both IDs, since its out of their ZoI. The only option where a rheinland ship can fight in honshu, or a kusari ship fight in frankfurt, is when the engagement starts inside their ZoI (probably sig13). If the engagement started before, and then there was a pursuit to the next system, then that is perfectly fine as far as I understand the server rules.

From what I feel, this illustrates the issue very well.

A rule that restricts logical and thought out player interactions and roleplay is a rule that needs to be changed.

If you suspect that you are going to break server ID rule through your actions, and you feel your RP warrants it, go ahead and post in Players Request what you have in mind. The admins will consider the request.

All in the community have the right to expect players to abide by the restrictions of their IDs. When players make exceptions, without permission, it creates chaos and upset.

Garrett seems to have answered the question, but I'll pose a quick question to those who might disagree with his reasoning.

Who gets to decide what is/isn't "proper RP" or "logical and well thought out RP"?

If it is the admins, then doing an SRP request is already the channel for that. If it's not the admins, then only official factions? We've seen how that works out before for some things: Bret/Rheinland "War." If it's any person on the server, then almost any action could be taken by anyone (ie: Zoner cap being supported by Liberty and Rheinland caps in Omicrons because all of the captains are brothers or something). That's not a great example, but I'm sure you can come up with your own of how this could go wrong.