Discovery Gaming Community

(05-24-2015, 11:14 PM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Did you ever find a fitting solution to the Manta-problem, or is it still Core's intention to steal the ships from BHG?

We have actually, though our intention was to never steal them; merely to provide an explanation why a faction that has split from BHG still uses 'BHG' ships.
BHG flies around in the stuff and looks damn good in it. It's advertisement. They're sponsored to use the tech.

APM stretches all the way back to 2008 - something which was RP'd by S/D / BHG|. So as Nyx said, the technology has always been built by APM. As I said, I never stole anything, merely renamed certain things here and there to ensure everything made sense.

Well ok let's be real here.

The ships are produced by APM, a BHG conglomorate. A BHG that branched out to also encompass BHG Core, a faction with a player-written backstory akin to the Zoner Guard but put in the mod at a different time when there were no quality requirements and it was all about jamming as much stuff into the mod as possible.

Now you are saying you are trying to fix Core, but again let's be real - it's a faction that makes no sense no matter how much work you put into writing the backstory. In your attempt to fix things, you've decided that Core and APM are intertwined.

APM controls Mantas, Core controls APM - in other words, Core controls Mantas. What if BHG decides to write a story that "makes more sense" where the boards of directors of APM are in fact from the BHG? Writing little crappy stories to grab power is just flower, but that's disco in a nutshell. People obsess over power and "rights" (do you remember, at first you didn't even want to discuss this at all because "BHG| isn't an official faction") and use poorly written stories and copy/paste spam mail style comms posts on the forum as justification. Why is it essential for you, or for Core for that matter, to acquire control over BHG's in-game assets? Would it be less fun to play Core if you didn't have that power?

The Manta is a fine ship with fine lore, a killing tool perfected in the hands of Bounty Hunters, a central faction in Vanilla with NPC's just about anywhere. The ship has some lore, and it's deadliness seems to be a result of skilled Bounty Hunters using the tools and perfecting it over the years.

You are taking some decent lore (and some ships that belong to a faction that is most definitely not nonsensical Core) hostage in your attempt to fix something that just cannot be fixed. You can at most make Core's story "not entirely bad", but please keep your paws off the Mantas. Core should have absolutely no influence on the BHG ship line, it's a silly faction with a silly starting point that just cannot be fixed or made just a tiny bit interesting. You can see it yourself, your gameplay always defaults to Omicron Space Thugs because there's no real depth in your faction or roles, sorry but that's how it is - you have very little to work with. It's Zoner Guard in better ships. If you really want to do the mod a service, ask to have Core removed from it rather than let Core cannibalize on a proper faction with real lore.

(05-24-2015, 11:33 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]APM stretches all the way back to 2008 - something which was RP'd by S/D / BHG|. So as Nyx said, the technology has always been built by APM. As I said, I never stole anything, merely renamed certain things here and there to ensure everything made sense.

Well, does it really make sense? Does it make more sense with your ownership of the ship line?

(05-25-2015, 07:25 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]The ships are produced by APM, a BHG conglomorate. A BHG that branched out to also encompass BHG Core, a faction with a player-written backstory akin to the Zoner Guard but put in the mod at a different time when there were no quality requirements and it was all about jamming as much stuff into the mod as possible.

If I'm brutally honest, yes. BHG Core was essentially a hobbyist faction as I stated before.

(05-25-2015, 07:25 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Now you are saying you are trying to fix Core, but again let's be real - it's a faction that makes no sense no matter how much work you put into writing the backstory. In your attempt to fix things, you've decided that Core and APM are intertwined.

APM controls Mantas, Core controls APM - in other words, Core controls Mantas. What if BHG decides to write a story that "makes more sense" where the boards of directors of APM are in fact from the BHG? Writing little crappy stories to grab power is just flower, but that's disco in a nutshell. People obsess over power and "rights" (do you remember, at first you didn't even want to discuss this at all because "BHG| isn't an official faction") and use poorly written stories and copy/paste spam mail style comms posts on the forum as justification. Why is it essential for you, or for Core for that matter, to acquire control over BHG's in-game assets? Would it be less fun to play Core if you didn't have that power?

Well before the faction did float on the outside however I've changed this so that the character development is not only easier but also more logical for myself. I disagree when you say there is no hope for The Core however, as the faction has impacted disco lore for years and continues to do. Maybe perhaps when it was introduced it did not, but it certainly has a place in the mod now.

Well if you want to break it down as much as possible: Yes, Core does control Mantas. And why does Core control Mantas? Because there's no BHG official faction. In terms of faction rights, we control the shipline. Of course that is subject to change but that is the hard truth right now and I couldn't refute it even if for some reason I tried. I haven't written any 'crappy' stories to 'grab power'. I've merely outlined the truth.

If BHG goes to make a story about APM and says BHG is from APM then I'm going to report them for powergaming. Because that's not only taking my lore, but established lore, and messing around with it. Near the end of BHG| APM shifted away from BHG ID towards being a faction that functioned with the Core ID and generally did or helped with Core related things. Heck, even the AP Manufacturing HQ is inside Omicron Rho with a Core IFF.

It's essential for me because we need to use a shipline that doesn't make ourselves look dumb lol. We've split from BHG, but still use 'BHG' ships? It'd be laughable. Instead of completely breaking away or going for a new shipline or whatever I just renamed a few things to make it more in line with actual lore. It's not really about having any 'power' or anything silly like that. Merely, at the end of the day, I just want my faction to make sense.

(05-25-2015, 07:25 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]The Manta is a fine ship with fine lore, a killing tool perfected in the hands of Bounty Hunters, a central faction in Vanilla with NPC's just about anywhere. The ship has some lore, and it's deadliness seems to be a result of skilled Bounty Hunters using the tools and perfecting it over the years.

You are taking some decent lore (and some ships that belong to a faction that is most definitely not nonsensical Core) hostage in your attempt to fix something that just cannot be fixed. You can at most make Core's story "not entirely bad", but please keep your paws off the Mantas. Core should have absolutely no influence on the BHG ship line, it's a silly faction with a silly starting point that just cannot be fixed or made just a tiny bit interesting. You can see it yourself, your gameplay always defaults to Omicron Space Thugs because there's no real depth in your faction or roles, sorry but that's how it is - you have very little to work with. It's Zoner Guard in better ships. If you really want to do the mod a service, ask to have Core removed from it rather than let Core cannibalize on a proper faction with real lore.

And this is disco, whereby the Manta is fine killing tool for what is quite frankly right now a more active and more impact-ful faction than BHG. See how well we're doing: Core 14.02:30:55. There's not much sense talking about the past and comparing Vanilla to modern Disco. In some areas, especially this one, they're years apart with years of developed and fleshed out lore.

I really don't know where you are getting the accusations from that I am taking anything 'hostage' as this is already established lore. If you want someone to whine at, go whine at the old BHG| HC and even S/D. Merely all I have done is explain things and make them simpler. I made sure to not retconn anything, but to merely evolve the faction forward without back-tracking. I'm not going to 'keep my paws' off the Manta as it's been the main VHF of the Core faction for years, and if I need to make edits to make my faction make more sense then I will. It's not a hopeless endeavor to make the lore sensible, merely one which requires tweaking to perfection.
Even before me BHG Core had influence on the BHG ship line, more than BHG actually (BHG Core stood above BHG in the hierarchy, APM floated on the outside). You can keep your opinion, but I'm not giving up my faction right.
And please don't whine at me that my faction role defaults into merely blowing things up when I tried bloody hard myself to change things, only for some turd to whine about it and put in a player request, ruining everything. However things will get better in the Omicron update as my faction will expand with more roles than what it currently has now. I have no problem in continually orchestrating raids between the Omicron factions. The depth of my faction doesn't necessarily lies in it's ID based actions, but within it's actual RP. In fact Mimir, I could take what you say about any faction and say they're space thugs with no real depth off the basis of their own IDs and by stripping down what they do in game to it's most bare form. Laughably if you really want to call us the Zoner Guard with better ships then you yourself clearly have no idea who or what The Core are.

And no, I won't delete my faction from the mod. We're doing a good job in giving factions things to do in the Omicrons and Omegas (even if there are a few pitfalls sometimes though I try to correct them whenever possible!) and reviving those regions like never before. Furthermore interest for The Core hasn't been this big in a loooooong time. At the dawn of when I started the faction, we could've pretty much have become a closed faction since we had zero indies. Nowadays I'm seeing indies springing up all over the place - that shows I'm doing something right, hmmmm?

(05-25-2015, 07:25 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Well, does it really make sense? Does it make more sense with your ownership of the ship line?

For now at least it does, and when a BHG faction gets official they can share the faction right with me. With the inception of the faction I was hoping someone would make a BHG faction and get it to officialdom promptly so that I'd have a BHG faction to work with. As it seems BHG| had no interest in getting itself in gear and every other BHG ID'd group died or got nowhere. Crazily, a Core faction got to officialdom first.

Mimir if you're really that discontent with Core using AP-Line ships, why don't you go and make me a new LF, HF , VHF, Guns, Gunboat and Gunship? I mean I could work with a separate shipline if we were given one out of the sky, not that we really need one or want one though.

Continuing on another subject, if I had actually kept The (BHG) Core the way it was, inRP and by lore BHG Core would have dominance over BHG. BHG would answer to my faction, and would have to put up with any RP I did even if it conflicted with their own interests (i.e Reavers with Reavers being chill with BHG Core but hunting regular BHG with them).

By splitting the factions in the way I've done, I've tried to ensure that BHG has maximum independence and can rule/roleplay itself, without having to answer to another faction.

(05-25-2015, 10:13 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: [ -> ]Continuing on another subject, if I had actually kept The (BHG) Core the way it was, inRP and by lore BHG Core would have dominance over BHG.

Uhhh, no...

Lyth pls.

In Vanilla, sweet Mantas were the property of the BHG, now they are the property of Core. If someone somewhere along the lines didn't write some crappy story, then how did this come about? Magic, like the rest of Core lore?

I'm discontent with the fact that you are taking some decent established lore that's been there since Vanilla, and you change it to suit your megalomaniac needs. Sorry, but Core is a useless faction with no other purpose than create conflicts in the Omicrons, and there's already factions designated for that since Vanilla. Core is fluff, the mod is better off without it - at least when you overreach and use your faction to get your hands on things that you shouldn't or try to extort/terrorise everyone in the Omicrons, as if Core somehow represents some sort of power. Look at this thread, even your friends say Core is pretty gay. Don't drag the Manta down with you!

Quote: if I had actually kept The (BHG) Core the way it was, inRP and by lore BHG Core would have dominance over BHG. BHG would answer to my faction, and would have to put up with any RP I did even if it conflicted with their own interests (i.e Reavers with Reavers being chill with BHG Core but hunting regular BHG with them).

That might not be quite true. I sense a slight misconception of what the BHG actually is. - Here is a fitting example.

The BHG is what Outreach is in the Battle-Tech universe. For those that do not know that ... Outreach is primarily a network that collects all bounty and mercenary contracts galaxy-wide and makes them available in ONE place instead of having to browse thousands of individually placed bounties on various local networks.

The benefits are obvious - it is easier to compare and MUCH faster to use. Outreach also caters to the sponsors in a way that it rates individual Hunters and groups on a STANDARIZED scale.

This is what the BHG is - a network. The BHG members are allowed to use this network - and sponsors are encouraged to use it over non-affiliated mercenaries because

- the rating allows them a more objective review of who they hire
- they gain a sort of insurence. - If a BHG member screws up ... he gets a bad rating, hence lowering the chances for him to get a good contract in the future. If a mercenary screws up ... he just hides in obscurity.

Each member of the BHG pays a fee to the network. Additionally to the fee, BHG members also provide the network with vital information like jumpholes, nebula navigation etc. .

But the thing is....


The BHG is nothing but an assistant for INDIVIDUAL hunters ( for that matter - also teams of hunters of course ). Those teams or individual hunters do not take orders from the BHG - nor are they bound by any restrictions. It is in their self interest to play by the BHG rules because

- the benefits of doing so far outweighs the repercussions of screwing up - and the benefits that the network provides are just too good compared to not having access.

If you say "the Core owns the BHG" ( which is kind of wrong - cause if anything it is the other way round ) - the most the Core could do to the BHG is to manipulate the network - and what good is it to meddle with your own cash cow.

(05-31-2015, 10:21 AM)Jinx Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote: if I had actually kept The (BHG) Core the way it was, inRP and by lore BHG Core would have dominance over BHG. BHG would answer to my faction, and would have to put up with any RP I did even if it conflicted with their own interests (i.e Reavers with Reavers being chill with BHG Core but hunting regular BHG with them).

That might not be quite true. I sense a slight misconception of what the BHG actually is. - Here is a fitting example.

The BHG is what Outreach is in the Battle-Tech universe. For those that do not know that ... Outreach is primarily a network that collects all bounty and mercenary contracts galaxy-wide and makes them available in ONE place instead of having to browse thousands of individually placed bounties on various local networks.

The benefits are obvious - it is easier to compare and MUCH faster to use. Outreach also caters to the sponsors in a way that it rates individual Hunters and groups on a STANDARIZED scale.

This is what the BHG is - a network. The BHG members are allowed to use this network - and sponsors are encouraged to use it over non-affiliated mercenaries because

- the rating allows them a more objective review of who they hire
- they gain a sort of insurence. - If a BHG member screws up ... he gets a bad rating, hence lowering the chances for him to get a good contract in the future. If a mercenary screws up ... he just hides in obscurity.

Each member of the BHG pays a fee to the network. Additionally to the fee, BHG members also provide the network with vital information like jumpholes, nebula navigation etc. .

But the thing is....


The BHG is nothing but an assistant for INDIVIDUAL hunters ( for that matter - also teams of hunters of course ). Those teams or individual hunters do not take orders from the BHG - nor are they bound by any restrictions. It is in their self interest to play by the BHG rules because

- the benefits of doing so far outweighs the repercussions of screwing up - and the benefits that the network provides are just too good compared to not having access.

If you say "the Core owns the BHG" ( which is kind of wrong - cause if anything it is the other way round ) - the most the Core could do to the BHG is to manipulate the network - and what good is it to meddle with your own cash cow.

I think your using of outreach as a comparison example is a bit off. What you probably want to compare the BHG to is the 'Mercenary Review and Bonding Commission' which operated on Outreach and Galatea as the clearing house for mercs and contracts. Outreach itself was the planet, and belonged solely to the Wolf's Dragoons.

The way BHG seems, from what ive read, is that it is indeed like the MRBC. the whole BHG/BHG Core thing never particularly sat right to me, whereas the full separation now does which allows the BHG to be more fitting to a broad, loosely defined contracting organization.