Apologies for this thread getting locked. No, I did not request a lock myself. The mod team simply just acted accordingly when things we 'going out of hand', which was a wise decision.
To my guys:
I appreciate you looking out for the faction but please just let HC deal with feedback, thank you. I've already issued a statement on skype, but I'll reinforce it here for good measure.
Excuse me? I don't really have a clue what you're on about but since your statement lacks any real feedback I'm just going to ignore it and move on.
Thank you for the compliment that I put a lot of effort into Core to make it a good faction - and pointing out that I do what a good faction leader should do! Thanks for the feedback
In all seriousness if you really don't have anything worthwhile to say don't bother. Yes, I put a lot of effort into my faction; got a problem with that?
Now back to dealing with
real feedback.
(07-01-2015, 04:37 PM)Swallow Wrote: [ -> ]From a point of view of a pilot who is far from politics I consider that encounters with Core| were the way they meant to be and I lack anything to complain about. I am also feeling thankful for another piece of activity in southern Omicrons.
Thanks for the feedback! It's good to know that the roleplay is getting through properly.
(07-01-2015, 05:13 PM)jammi Wrote: [ -> ]Bit confused about the BHG / ex-criminal controversy here.
It's not 'a few infocards' that mention it Mimir, it's a major characteristic of the NPC faction. It's brought up time and time again in news articles, the faction's infocard summary, their ID text and on base rumours.
Regardless of the work they've done since, a sizeable proportion/majority of the Guild's pilots are reformed convicts and criminals with a resultant stigma that follows the organisation around.
Can't argue with that I guess.
(07-02-2015, 01:22 PM)SpaceTime Wrote: [ -> ]Hello, I'd like to ask who were responsible for writing this revised history of the Core.
I did in cooperation with Core| HC, BHG| and assistance from Jammi to help iron out inconsistencies.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Heya, thanks for your patience. I've tried not to nitpick too much this time round
Quote:How: launching very small raids against Corsairs in the Edge Worlds.
What: taking elite bounty hunting contracts in the Omicrons against the Outcasts and the Corsairs.
Why: money.
If this is the core of Core (I made a funny!), shouldn't it be elaborated? Also, this certainly gives some problems: To hunt those bounties, you need capital ships first - to have capital ships, you need credits first.
It was the idea of the Core initially: collecting bounties against the hardest to kill targets in the edge worlds.
Actually originally according to lore they didn't have caps. In fact, technologically they are out matched by their enemies hence why pilots relied more on their own raw skill than the ships and equipment they used. You don't need capital ships to hunt bounties.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]If you want Core to "just" be a PMC, maybe you should write a story with one big client (eg. the old Liberty connection) funding the show and getting Core started.
Original lore of BHG Core was that they started by BHG leaders and were funded by money stockpiled by BHG over the centuries. I'm not going to debate the legitimacy of that. As I have said I have no plans for Core to be owned by a single house.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Moreover, if Core is a PMC and that's how you make a living and came into existence, you'll have wealthy patrons / Core would be in the pocket of whoever pays the contract - that's something you've left out as well, and a definite chink in Core's armor (as in, those Zoners you should could make a compelling complaint to Core's patrons, and in turn you'd be put in your place etc.). Specifics, specifics, specifics!
As stated BHG kicked everything off. Core makes a living by taking advantage of resources found within the edge worlds, both natural and alien. Having wealthy patrons fuel the Core war machine as you have stated feels too Ouroboros-like and kind of a cheat. Having a bunch of vague individuals throwing unlimited money at the Core would feel shoddy.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Removal of all hostile threats in the Edge Worlds and creation of a 'peaceful' empire under the rule of The Core. They want to grow strong and powerful, hopefully someday becoming a great nation.
Well I think you should flesh out the specifics of this Empire, rather than say "Core wanted an Empire, so they went out and made themselves one, the end". Why? Inrp why would people join the Core cause and die for it, when everything is so extremely loosely defined? When people are said to die for peace, there's always an underlying specific nature to that peace - eg. the "peace" Western Europe fought for during WWII was a democratic US-aligned peace, rather than a nazi or communist peace, and there are plenty of other fault lines than just the political. In the practical world, peace always have associated connotations. It's never vague, even when unarticulated.
Secure the edge worlds for the greater good? Removal of the hostiles in the edge worlds that plague the houses? A 'true' counter to the Nomad threat that isn't as politically unpopular as The Order and also wants to improve sirian technology?
All the reasons are mentioned on the information page (at least).
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:The only lawful faction in the Edge Worlds with an Agenda that can potentially benefit the locals
I am fairly certain I can find some local Zoners that disagree...
Some who break the laws of the perhaps. But not all Zoners.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:The hierarchy structure of the organization as a whole was always BHG Council > BHG Core > BHG.
I'm not too sure about that - sure on Guildmaster level, some roleplay might have been had, but back in the day when membership of BHG| granted you membership of BHG Core, I had no sense of the hierarchy at all - the two factions were for all intents for most players seperate (even though membership overlapped 1:1). It's unthinkable that a BHG Core character back then would propose some notion of hierarchy towards the BHG, at least the way I experienced the two factions.
In fact, if you look at BHG lore (from which Core spun out of), one of the defining traits is the distinct lack of a hierarchy within the organization, save for a guild master that is more of an administrator than a leader of minions.
BHG poured all funding into Core - it was their focus and thus is held in a higher regard. BHG perhaps had a leader and then drones, BHG Core had its own organizational structure however and above them stood the council above the whole of the bounty hunters guild. For example council generally made decisions which would be not typically be in the interests of BHG, but would usually be within the interests of BHG Core. I.e BHG council gave Reavers AP-Line ships and equipment to use ad permitted them to use them to hunt BHG with if they felt the need but not against BHG Core because Reavers would hunt Order for BHG Core in the edge worlds.
Personally I have led both factions myself and been in BHG HC and know this well.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Though I've always felt that general attitudes across Sirius is that Bounty Hunters are the scummiest of the scummiest, partially (or maybe mostly?) due to them recruiting criminals into the faction.
If you look at how some of the most prolific bounty hunters have been roleplayed, they've been more or less the knights in shining armor. True, there's some ambiguity to the role, but in reality most players opt for a clean-cut hunter; which to me is absolutely fine, even though I of course play a scumbag. Either way, it's for BHG players to decide, and most definitely not for the Core...
Jammi has pointed out the reasons. However Mimir just because the lore describes that most are like that, does not mean that all players would be forced to RP in that way however. In factions which point directions into how those sorts of characters
could be roleplayed, there's still enough room for people to try something else. My original BHG| character was one such knight in shining armour, however he'd often find himself getting frustrated as people who interacted with him would assume he was a reformed criminal, or just a scummy bounty hunter.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Either way that would not benefit The Core by being dragged down by such reputation.
I also think it's problematic that you make defining assumptions on behalf of the BHG in this document. To my understanding, as an at times fairly avid BHG player, the Bounty Hunters Guild have an EXTREMELY upstanding reputation with many, many years of stellar service to the houses. Heck, they are preregistered on lawful boards - their reputation is so positive that they are allowed entry on the boards on face value alone.
Their reputation for hunting? Yes. But as individuals? Not so much. They're means to an end - houses and corps generally don't wish to get any closer than using them as tools.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]But that's to change because Lyth wants an empire and a ship line? There's some of these "oversights" in your document, and I think it is absolutely impassable as a legitimate piece of lore paper as long as they are there.
As I explained, not really. I haven't made any retconns or lore changes. The things in my lore are based off information I have researched.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Leave BHG and any and all assumptions regarding them totally out of this draft, that's not for Core to influence or manipulate at all.
Hence why after the split is explained, I leave them alone in our lore.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:On the outside we like to act as noble Paladins of justice who work towards the greater good, but inside we're far more cruel and cold in our methodology
Those Zoners you've been pewing probably disagree on your views on "the greater good". Flesh out this greater good, what is it that Core wants exactly, rather than use bland and vague terms. Again what is this greater good exactly, when it requires Core to have hidden agendas when it comes to methodology?
The Zoners we have been pewing are those who commit crimes against The Core. Such occurrences are minor however, and shooting Zoners is far from a regular activity. The greater good is already explained: We're fighting the nomad threat, and furthermore we wish to create peace in the Edge Worlds. That (in the opinion of Core) can only be done via strict enforcement of laws. Core doesn't need to explain it's hidden agendas to those they protect.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Understandable, it is somewhat like walking in a room full of mousetraps when writing something like this, however I assure you Impy and I have been working together on this.
No offense, but it's a terrible idea to have a work-like relationship with your friends, you don't get that needed balance because other interests are at play.
Would you rather have it that the leaders of both factions hate each other beyond the normal limits of ooRP hatred? Do not worry, Impy does acknowledge the other interests at play here.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]I think you should open it up more to the general public or not choose to cooperate with a faction leader who, and again pardon my bluntness, mostly have served as an obstacle to the BHG| since a bunch of players tried to revitalize the faction and he said he was the leader (even though there were seasoned BHG| vets in there). The amount of pushing and shoving we had to do to even get a faction page thrown up on the forum, and to open recruitment - which I am still not entirely sure has opened. I wouldn't say Impy's mandate is all that justified, to be frank
No comment.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]but you yourself forced us to just roll with everything because you - as you said - don't care about stealing Mantas when there's no official BHG faction to stop you. I'm not assured.
I said that I wanted to see an active BHG faction that would actually go somewhere instead of dying in several weeks. I wouldn't see the point in spending such effort trying to create something with a group that would just fade out before the roleplay would go anywhere. After a veeeeeeeery long time, BHG| finally seems to have some steam and it's worthwhile for me to cooperate.
Also, as I keep saying a million times, I am not stealing Mantas. I don't care about
people who keep saying that I am stealing Mantas, because that is not what I am doing. My goal is to simply make the shipline have the same sort of genericness that the Civ and Borderworlds lines have, but however giving them faction-level control by Core/BHG via FR6.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you. It's in the offset, Lyth. Do you remember your first response when I opened the Dance of the Mantas on skype, about the void of a BHG official faction and the position it put Core in? That worries me a lot, because I think you were being absolutely honest, even though you did back-pedal a little later.
To put it simply I would not wait for an indefinite period of time for a faction to spring up whilst there would still be holes within the background of Core in terms of the split and ships. I could have just made my own BHG faction as I have lead one before, however I feel that would not have gone down so nicely with the community. Furthermore it'd be too much like the old command structure of BHG|, minus the tag.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Look at your faction description. It is solely about dividing assets. We understand that Core and APM is one and the same, and that APM holds the rights over Mantas and such. What we don't know is who Core are, and what they really want. Your focus has - from start to end - been on the assets, not on developing the faction and making it come to life. Everything is described top-down: APM did this, leadership did that, Empire ensued.
I don't see that in the Synopsis or the Overview. In terms of the History section, that's simply to inform readers of the background of the faction.
As I have stated, I plan to write lore which details everything Core does since the split as it's good to catalog your own history. Although...
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]If you were serious, you would have gone about it the other way: What goes through the mind of an average Joe when he signs up for the Core? Why would he want to? What does the world look like through his eyes, and what influence did those views have on the decision to join the Core? What alternative does Core ofter to the current day Omicrons? What is the Core utopia that people are willing to die for?
Good point. I do have plans on writing a short story about the recruitment process of The Core (so as you said the individuals reasons for joining etc.). Even still with that in mind, I could insert that into the lore at some point (though I think it'd be more fun to write a separate story
)
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I'd much prefered a story about the filth and corruption in the Omicrons; an anti-thesis to the Zoner story of freedom from House tyranny. The other side of the coin where lawlessness rules; where Outcasts and Corsairs fraternize on Zoner installations, where ethically questionable research is conducted, and where selfishness and greed is the norm. A story about how Core are hyper-vigilantes on a moral crusade - a story in which they are noble paladins on a quest for order in the Omicron chaos when viewed from one angle, and brutal and oppressive fascists when viewed from another.
That's kind of meant to be what it's suppose to be. They're sort of trying to inject house methodology into a lawless area of Sirius - place where groups such as the Zoners go to in order to leave that methodology.
Whilst imo I like to think that I had achieved that in the
information thread, could you perhaps offer any specific suggestions as to how I can make it more clear?
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]Elaborate on that contrast, put it into words directly. Maybe even create some totalitarian symbols and flesh out an ideology a little bit - not something overly intricate, just some things to support the story. I'd like a story linked much more to character drama, rather than static things like who has ownership of the Manta. There's a lot of different directions you could take the story in.
S-Symbolism?
Actually I did make a whole load of symbols. I was planning to jump to RPing the 'startup-house' part of The Core, though I put that on hold to work on other aspects of the faction. I'll work on more propaganda-like things and pushing out the ideology more. There's actually The Core News Service, though I kind of meant for that to be a lot softer in regards to propaganda in order to not fully scare the civilian populace.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]This story is totally void of anything vibrant or "living", it's a super static story that is structured completely around the (BHG!) assets.
Now why do that if you weren't interested in having the rights to the Manta? Is this really the "best" angle to tell the Core story from?
As stated by the reasons above, I disagree. As stated by other reasons above, beyond the history I can do more to write a more fluid and modern story.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]To further add to it, the "oversights" you make on behalf of the BHG aids the Core agenda (what a surprise).
Not really. I've split them because I want both factions to have their own independence where neither has to further the agenda of the other. It was a cheat that BHG Core could use BHG as a crutch to cover their economical, military and logistical holes.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]You try to put a hierarchical structure in place with Core on top as if that's how it's always been,
That is how it's always been. BHG Core are the elite pilots, they reccive higher paychecks. All the funds from BHG got poured into BHG Core as the BHG Council was mostly concerned with it's operations in the Edge Worlds. When BHG Core lacked recruits they'd even just casually draw in some more straight from the BHG and throw them continuously at their enemies to win via sheer manpower.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]the way you portray the BHG reputation,
It's a suitable reason for wanting to split.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]and that it is crucial to you that APM and Core are so closely intertwined that by all intents and purposes
Let me put it this way:
APM supplied BHG with ships. That's mostly all they did as per lore.
APM supplied Core with ships, help them develop new technologies in the Edge Worlds, supplied their bases (although I guess you could say the same for regular BHG bases however arguably getting supplies to BHG Core bases would be far more important) and even helped them terraform a planet. APM-Core relationship is much closer than it is for APM-BHG.
To me personally, I don't want people running amok with a piece of lore that is related to both factions.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]the Manta is a Core ship rather than a BHG ship. Your entire write-up is about how that ship tech cell belongs to you, and not much else.
The Manta isn't a Core ship. I'm not trying to steal the ship away from BHG, or delete the current tech cell and rename it to Core tech. I'm trying to tweak the shipline lore to what it should be so that there can be logical conclusions drawn as to how BHG and Core share the same ships.
(07-01-2015, 10:31 AM)Mímir Wrote: [ -> ]If you weren't interested in power and just wanted to make a really cool faction, I am certain you would do it differently.
No, right now I am trying to make a 'really cool' faction. If I wanted to have nothing but power I would forcefully try to grab as much of BHG's assets from it as possible. I would entirely negate the existence of BHG in all that I do and not give them any chance of helping administrate the shipline or to have any say in it. Going back to an earlier point I made, if I wanted power all to myself the logical conclusion would have been to just make my own BHG faction.
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