(09-05-2016, 08:01 PM)Irwin Wrote: [ -> ].... Any new admin team should be chosen and selected by the community.
So the ones with the most, most vocial skype-friends that can rally up enough to convince others of their narrowed view are then to become Admins, so they can return the favour towards those that brought them in this spot the first place?
'Murica fk yea?
//Edit, as
has edited his post:
(09-05-2016, 08:01 PM)Irwin Wrote: [ -> ]...Any new admin team should be chosen and selected by the community, because I wouldn't trust this administration to boil eggs. Lord knows that previous iterations of the administration throughout the years, even the successful ones, have done an absolutely botched job of picking their successors, creating a self-perpetuating cycle of terrible admins. The community needs to be granted the ability to function as a check on the administration, otherwise we end up with an administration like the current one which gets away with numerous abuses and destructive behaviors which continue to cause the server to decline.
So the new Admins that had been voted into place by their skype-friends and those that were rallied up for support are kept in check how exactly? As long they fulfill the needs and desires of those that pushed them up the spot, and given the fact that our skype-warriors tend to appear out of nowhere once they're "needed", it'll just become a circle of even more abuse and one-sided decisions supporting the very vocal cliques within this so called community.
(09-05-2016, 08:01 PM)Irwin Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2016, 07:53 PM)Alley Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure if I understand your post correctly as it's not very clear, but are you suggesting getting rid of the (current?) administration and replacing it with nothing but a ruleset (or with a new admin team made of idk who) ?
At this point, any new administration is better than the rotten one we have now. Obviously we need admins to enforce the rules, but these one's go about doing that in the most destructive manner I've ever seen. Any new admin team should be chosen and selected by the community.
I'm not exactly sure asking the community to get in line behind a TS Squad made administration team will net you more trust than the current administration. You're essentially suggesting an administration forged from a popularity contest (or in our case, skypefriends) and it's a very, very predictable outcome when you know which group can right away muster minimum 30+ votes with ease. They can do more than assemble the jorm fleet at wish.
I mean I thought you had a bit better plan than that because I cannot see this performing any better than the current staff.
(09-05-2016, 08:01 PM)Irwin Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2016, 07:53 PM)Alley Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure if I understand your post correctly as it's not very clear, but are you suggesting getting rid of the (current?) administration and replacing it with nothing but a ruleset (or with a new admin team made of idk who) ?
At this point, any new administration is better than the rotten one we have now. Obviously we need admins to enforce the rules, but these one's go about doing that in the most destructive manner I've ever seen. Any new admin team should be chosen and selected by the community.
A semi-democratic system would be nice. A nice set of rules of who can be an admin. I'll start:
- Proven track record of inRP / ooRP behaviour
- Proven track record of level-headedness
- Outstanding communications skills
- Willingness to be transparent about decisions and ideas
- Never sanctioned, or if sanctioned showed that they actively worked to become better
- Active member of the community for a minimum amount of time?
I honestly don't think the entire team is rotten, I'm sure some of them can be salvaged if we give them a chance.
EDIT: Maybe a review process of the admins where proof-backed criticism can be offered; if there's simply too many problems, that admin is demoted.
(09-05-2016, 08:05 PM)Divine Wrote: [ -> ]'Murica fk yea?
I find this grossly offensive and I don't think the community should tolerate your absolutely vicious America bashing and racism. I will not apologize, nor should anyone apologize for their country of origin. For all of it's flaws, it's system of governance is still responsible for the tremendous success it has seen for centuries. I love my country, and am proud of the people who have borne it's flag, and the wonderfully positive impact it has made on the world. This is why I've chosen to serve my country's military and defend freedom and democracy around the world.
But yea, any American with patriotism is an absolute idiot right? People like me who serve in the military are just "MURICA" spouting gun toting fatasses, right? You're disgusting and your bigotry does not belong here Divine.
(09-05-2016, 08:16 PM)Irwin Wrote: [ -> ]I find this grossly offensive ....
The way you've addressed others in this thread gives you no right to be "grossly offended".
There is no need for too many words here.
Just take a look on the server, can you afford to lose the people you're driving off with this poor behavior? Why? Instead of being absolute with your decisions you need to learn to involve the human factor in the decisions to make and not just wave your green phallus at everything. The server ran because there was a balance between administrative staff and the rest of the community. It ran, it's in the past, because as you can see, it doesn't for some time now. Many members are disappointed in how things work these days and the server's population is being driven off because of that. It's not because they're on vacation, it's not because of school or work, that's just an excuse by the remaining members to be
about it, creating a false hope that things will change.
The server is being kept alive by people who donate money to keep it alive so they can play and have fun. If you drive away too many people, they will stop doing that and the server won't last long. Respect your people and they will respect you. Make things fun for those who play it, keep the bias to a minimum and the drama will go away, most of it atleast. There are still many players who contribute to this mod without being total dicks.
I know that you are busy, you have lives, jobs, no time for this stuff and as a result, things take a longer time to fix than expected. But why should that be affecting us that great? I know it's hard being a green but we, the community, expect from you to run this place decently. You've got the spot for a reason, if you can't do it then drop it so someone more capable will fill that spot.
(09-05-2016, 08:01 PM)Irwin Wrote: [ -> ]At this point, any new administration is better than the rotten one we have now.
Careful what you wish.
I've seen other communities collapse in a similar way. However, Disco is nowhere near as bad as any of them. This place is a freaking heaven compared to others. Even after all the mistakes. That said, be mindful, as in your conquest to better the community and "divorce" it from the administration, you might as well destroy it.
As far as staff recruitment is concerned, I must say, Disco is in a very interesting position. You can't run a forum wide vote, for obvious reasons, nor can you trust (I suppose) a vote within the staff itself only, for the same reasons. Either way, you're stuck.
However, there might be a way around this, but I don't think the staff's gonna like it very much.
Still thinking about the admin selection/removal process, it's obviously a possibility that it just ends up being a popularity contest. We have a huge forum team, all of them pretty experienced. Could it be possible the the admin selection process (only) be voted upon by the 4 teams (admins, devs, angels & moderators)?
That's a wider range of opinion, it would show the community that the admins aren't self appointed. There's a chance that some admins with differing ideas from the main group might be placed in that position, creating a diversity of opinions on that team (which, in my opinion is always great). It would also satisfy the problems of the Dev team has with the admins.
Elected admins won't work. You'll end up with Spazzy like someone in this thread already suggested. Case closed.
Just keep the team intact but recruit a seasoned PVP-type person. Someone who has in-depth knowledge of other aspects of the game than typing text in chat or forums, or organizing events. When Disco was at it's greatest it was Reavers and Mandos in the admin team. Carebears don't fully understand neither the game nor the community, no single individual does, but it's crucial to have different aspects and viewpoints represented. Otherwise it's pointless to act like a team to begin with. Majority vote can't guarantee that balance.
There are too many carebears, who in spite of their good intentions have caused a lot of harm for quite some time, and the community would probably be dumb enough to elect even more if the majority held that power.
From the outside looking in, here's my suggestion:
1. Admins go 'whoopsie, we made some mistakes collectively, let's stop pinning the blame on certain individuals and be friends now' to try and reconnect with the players without losing face totally
2. Admins recruit a PVP-type person into their ranks for a more balanced view on the game, perhaps someone who remembers Dieter Schprokets' inspirational and eternally true avatar from when he was an admin. It is really all about finding a balance
3. Snak3, Lyth, Chuba are unbanned, possibly more that I forgot (sry)
4. This thread is deleted as it's just inviting for trouble. Admins can deduce whatever they need to know from general discussion threads or complaints about sanctions. The easier it is to file complaints, the more complaints admins will get
5. People carry on with the perpetual cycle of shooting typing words in the in-game chat/whining on forums/ragequitting/returning
6. Admins can do their spring cleaning and re-think their purpose and effort in private in relative peace, pitchforks safely tucked away
Have fun!
(09-05-2016, 08:12 PM)Alley Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2016, 08:01 PM)Irwin Wrote: [ -> ] (09-05-2016, 07:53 PM)Alley Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure if I understand your post correctly as it's not very clear, but are you suggesting getting rid of the (current?) administration and replacing it with nothing but a ruleset (or with a new admin team made of idk who) ?
At this point, any new administration is better than the rotten one we have now. Obviously we need admins to enforce the rules, but these one's go about doing that in the most destructive manner I've ever seen. Any new admin team should be chosen and selected by the community.
I'm not exactly sure asking the community to get in line behind a TS Squad made administration team will net you more trust than the current administration. You're essentially suggesting an administration forged from a popularity contest (or in our case, skypefriends) and it's a very, very predictable outcome when you know which group can right away muster minimum 30+ votes with ease. They can do more than assemble the jorm fleet at wish.
I mean I thought you had a bit better plan than that because I cannot see this performing any better than the current staff.
A more comprehensive proposal is obviously necessary for the successful replacement of the server's administration, but it is fundamentally necessary that it should include a democratic check on the administration at some point in the process. The specifics of it I don't think I alone have the answer too, though if you are interested in contributing to a more comprehensive proposal I would be more than happy to discuss it with you or other members of this community.
But, an important thing to remember when you attempt to demonize
popularity contests is that people are popular in this community for a reason. People aren't popular members of the community when they fail to contribute to the server or improve people's experience in game. Believe it or not, they're popular for doing exactly the opposite. The current staff has even go so far as to create the facade of democracy by giving us the opportunity to vote for new members of the moderation team.
I say facade because
one of the people selected only received one vote. A vote they casted for themselves. When you circumvent democracy and the will of the community, you end up with the absolutely destructive administration team we have today.
, I guess I answered the question "Who voted for you?" that you refused to answer. I find it strange that you couldn't answer it yourself, as you're literally the only person in the community who could be bothered to muster up the effort to type up your name and vote for you. Accepted any position despite zero support from the community is incredibly disrespectful sir, and you should be ashamed that you prance around these forums and pretend to have the popular mandate in support of your actions.
However, were this discussion to take place any longer in this thread I think it would count as sufficient derailment, as this thread is for feedback and review of the
current administration.