Discovery Gaming Community

This latest dilemma has piqued my interest, and I feel the need to provide my opinion, and suggest an alternative solution to the plan that has sparked issues.

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But first, a small aside (a completely personal opinion):

(07-29-2015, 02:11 PM)Mark_Brown Wrote: [ -> ]As a Sovereign State we're legally in RP allowed to do this as we're financially rich and we should use this to our better features.

Suppose we can do deals with local miners? Share the wealth? Choices are endless.

Bellck.

I have two issues with this statement.

The first one is that the Gas Miners Guild (or it's leadership, inrp, oorp?) defines itself as a "sovereign state". In my very personal opinion, the Gas Miners Guild is not recognized by anyone as a sovereign state, which I believe is one of the conditions that defines states in this day and age.

To make this point short, I'll use an example that describes my view. Kusari and GMG are like Mainland China and Taiwan. GMG is Taiwan, if anyone had doubts.

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The second part is this

(07-29-2015, 05:58 PM)Mark_Brown Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2015, 05:23 PM)Alley Wrote: [ -> ]GMG bid removed. Ontario is quite a far stretch from your territory.

Looks like a staff biased judgement here, as no rules are broken...

GMG plan has struck one of the design flaws of Freelancer lore, which is the established House protectionism lore that is present everywhere. Inside a house space, the only legal entities that are tolerated to have a static presence are: the house own lawful forces, the house own corporations, and select sirian companies that have lifted themselves from the "house corporate" tag.

Ever seen a Samura office or base in Rheinland? Or a Agiera factory in Bretonia? Why not? Why can't the corporations of a house (that are not State corporations) can't have business establishments outside of their house? It's one of the mysteries of the original Freelancer design. I guess in Disco case, it also links with sovereignty issues. Since a x faction has their allies and enemies, a x faction base outside of their environment will cause issues with the law and sovereignty of the house it is located. (Like IC allowing GC to dock on NT orbital base *wink wink*).

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A third separate issue is one that many have raised already, that is the GMG entering a new market outside of their lore, outside of their zone.

Buying a Pob won't grant you magically a mining bonus to platinum on GMG ID, and as Alley said, not even the Pob IFF will be changed. Second, it does intrude on native corporations business, and on the Republic of Liberty resources, something a sovereign nation wouldn't appreciate having another "sovereign state" messing around, if it was the case of GMG.

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Hence we come to my proposal (sorry for the delay). GMG is a Guild. A regional guild yes, but a guild that can work as a company, a corporation. Why not approach the plan that way?

Buy the Pob, establish a local branch company to manage it, hire local miners (or even a whole native company) to handle the mining and such, and have the GMG do the shipping back home if it's viable.

GMG handles the prices and market strategy, the branch company gives the front and deals with the locals, and the Liberty and independent miners do the work. GMG interests could still be played, and Liberty lore and internal diplomacy work, without having GMG itself expanding into an enclave halfway across Sirius.

Heck, more fuel for Xeno rage even. Getting some real foreigners in Liberty.

A small note as well. GMG does not have mining equipment for ores in space. It's not designed around ore mining, and I'd guess a lot of facilities aren't ready to take ore, process it, and resell it. GMG has planetside ore mining and space-side gas mining. The kamome is specially designed to harvest and contain gas, and GMG does not have a fleet of hegemons or other miners readily available.

(07-29-2015, 07:58 PM)Pinko Wrote: [ -> ]Here's my probably worthless 2 cents on the matter.

There's a reason why factions do what they do. It's pretty much black and white. ALG collects trashes, Junkers are Junkers, IMG mines outside of the houses where corporations can't reach them, USI is Space FedEx,

The factions do what they're supposed to do. I understand wanting to expand your roleplay, but your roleplay is the roleplay of your faction. The faction as a whole has a direction, a goal, and just does what it does. GMG mines gas and acts as a miniature house. That's what they do. They mind their business and sell H-fuel. Do they have foreign interests? Perhaps, but certain situations are a bit far-fetched.

Great concepts, misunderstandings and so forth.

I'm glad you brought up USI as (Space FedEx) its natural that you'll understand that a Shipping Corporation has incorporated a mining institution; http://discoverygc.com/wiki/Minnesota_Mi...g_%283M%29
Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing (3M)
MMM' USI bought it outright and are mining plutonium of course we'll scribble out the metagaming DSE ID miners they use at time but its done already in Alberta, with 2 of their stations.

So say USI can do it as an official faction and nobody turns an eye lid, however a mining guild like the GMG, after all these years of the same lore. What you're telling ms is that none of our technology has been upgraded since the beginning of freelancer and none of the GMG has ever advanced other than mining and selling Gas. We all know in the real world *RP* GMG would improve and expand. Isn't that's what's happening here?

I'm agreeing we've picked a large very long distant station away from our home, but why can't we use Kishiro or USI to fill our base with stock along side DSE indies? - Or are we still at the stoneage here?

-- See, things with freelancer was born in 13, if freelancer 2 adapted, things would improve and things would develop. Why because the game cannot develop we cannot develop new lore and increase foreign adoptions and increase business for ourselves?

Obviously the bidding continues and we can pull out at any stage but I did it to raise a question. Can we change? or does the GMG live in the stone age still, yet Samura are building Jump gates.

The conversation must go on....

Bellck

If GMG wants to buy a base somewhere then GMG can buy a base somewhere. People can think about that what they will but I can't understand how such an absurdly small decision somehow causes massive oorp drama and why admins would even care about this.

Some of the people here should watching soaps if they crave drama this much. Maybe then those people can stop blowing every tiny thing out of proportion.

Maybe spend the time spend here on RPing instead while we're at it.

inb4 we see Bowex (or any other house corp) muscling in on GMG's turf by expanding into gas mining. Will we see GMG being fine with losing their raison d'être on which all their lore is based, or will we see a monumental QQ storm?

that may sound sarcastic, but its a serious question. remember, things flow both ways. other corp factions might decide to branch into gas mining and cut out the GMG middleman. What will you do then Bellck?

Note: raison d'être - French, literally 'reason for being'.

(07-29-2015, 10:50 PM)Mark_Brown Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2015, 07:58 PM)Pinko Wrote: [ -> ]Here's my probably worthless 2 cents on the matter.

There's a reason why factions do what they do. It's pretty much black and white. ALG collects trashes, Junkers are Junkers, IMG mines outside of the houses where corporations can't reach them, USI is Space FedEx,

The factions do what they're supposed to do. I understand wanting to expand your roleplay, but your roleplay is the roleplay of your faction. The faction as a whole has a direction, a goal, and just does what it does. GMG mines gas and acts as a miniature house. That's what they do. They mind their business and sell H-fuel. Do they have foreign interests? Perhaps, but certain situations are a bit far-fetched.

Great concepts, misunderstandings and so forth.

I'm glad you brought up USI as (Space FedEx) its natural that you'll understand that a Shipping Corporation has incorporated a mining institution; http://discoverygc.com/wiki/Minnesota_Mi...g_%283M%29
Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing (3M)
MMM' USI bought it outright and are mining plutonium of course we'll scribble out the metagaming DSE ID miners they use at time but its done already in Alberta, with 2 of their stations.

So say USI can do it as an official faction and nobody turns an eye lid, however a mining guild like the GMG, after all these years of the same lore. What you're telling ms is that none of our technology has been upgraded since the beginning of freelancer and none of the GMG has ever advanced other than mining and selling Gas. We all know in the real world *RP* GMG would improve and expand. Isn't that's what's happening here?

I'm agreeing we've picked a large very long distant station away from our home, but why can't we use Kishiro or USI to fill our base with stock along side DSE indies? - Or are we still at the stoneage here?

-- See, things with freelancer was born in 13, if freelancer 2 adapted, things would improve and things would develop. Why because the game cannot develop we cannot develop new lore and increase foreign adoptions and increase business for ourselves?

Obviously the bidding continues and we can pull out at any stage but I did it to raise a question. Can we change? or does the GMG live in the stone age still, yet Samura are building Jump gates.

The conversation must go on....

Bellck

Okay so obviously things would evolve and a company of GMG's size would branch out to seek more profits. BUT, this is a game ( : you have to remember there are other factions out there and we try to keep them all as active as another to make things seem realistic. By plowing kicking someone off of their turf, you could hurt gameplay. Plus there's RP stuff besides what I've said.

^ Simple as possible.

Oh and you can't change base names etc so it would look odd.

Quote:I'm glad you brought up USI as (Space FedEx) its natural that you'll understand that a Shipping Corporation has incorporated a mining institution; http://discoverygc.com/wiki/Minnesota_Mi...g_%283M%29
Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing (3M)
MMM' USI bought it outright and are mining plutonium of course we'll scribble out the metagaming DSE ID miners they use at time but its done already in Alberta, with 2 of their stations.

So say USI can do it as an official faction and nobody turns an eye lid, however a mining guild like the GMG, after all these years of the same lore. What you're telling ms is that none of our technology has been upgraded since the beginning of freelancer and none of the GMG has ever advanced other than mining and selling Gas. We all know in the real world *RP* GMG would improve and expand. Isn't that's what's happening here?

this may be but as you recall we also got in deep trouble for the 3M. as for Alberta bases DSE owns the bases still USI just was hired for the administration duties so that they may concentrate on mining. as a member of USI you'd know this and i think it's funny that GMG didn't show interest till USI did. this is my two cents on this as president

(07-29-2015, 10:50 PM)Mark_Brown Wrote: [ -> ]So say USI can do it as an official faction and nobody turns an eye lid, however a mining guild like the GMG, after all these years of the same lore. What you're telling ms is that none of our technology has been upgraded since the beginning of freelancer and none of the GMG has ever advanced other than mining and selling Gas. We all know in the real world *RP* GMG would improve and expand. Isn't that's what's happening here?

I'm agreeing we've picked a large very long distant station away from our home, but why can't we use Kishiro or USI to fill our base with stock along side DSE indies? - Or are we still at the stoneage here?

-- See, things with freelancer was born in 13, if freelancer 2 adapted, things would improve and things would develop. Why because the game cannot develop we cannot develop new lore and increase foreign adoptions and increase business for ourselves?

Obviously the bidding continues and we can pull out at any stage but I did it to raise a question. Can we change? or does the GMG live in the stone age still, yet Samura are building Jump gates.

The conversation must go on....

Bellck

What I find weird on possible purchase of Swellendam by GMG| is that like two months ago you were not interested (at least it seemed so) in buying Otemachi POB which is in Okinawa, was in auction and GMG| didn´t have any POB at that time. Then, month ago, you were unable to fulfill even your inRP role of gas exporter when you complained in this post to owner of POB in Okinawa that the base is full and you can´t store more gas there so he should find some haulers to carry it out. I was really surprised when I saw that because I always thought that this is why GMG has Kujira transports - to export their gas to customers themself, not by hiring other corps for that job. But I said to myself "okay, maybe they want to focus on mining and patrolling only because they are not interested in trading".

Now you suddenly want to expand to far distant territory, run and supply POB there and be involved in ore mining business. What means a lot of trading (especially when we speak about such grind as POB supplying). It will also create weird situation when GMG| won´t have their own POB near mining location for selling their own raw gas/ore (like many mining factions have) but will own POB which will be quite unrelated to their main business.

(07-29-2015, 11:25 PM)Cashew Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2015, 07:58 PM)Pinko Wrote: [ -> ]Here's my probably worthless 2 cents on the matter.

There's a reason why factions do what they do. It's pretty much black and white. ALG collects trashes, Junkers are Junkers, IMG mines outside of the houses where corporations can't reach them, USI is Space FedEx,

The factions do what they're supposed to do. I understand wanting to expand your roleplay, but your roleplay is the roleplay of your faction. The faction as a whole has a direction, a goal, and just does what it does. GMG mines gas and acts as a miniature house. That's what they do. They mind their business and sell H-fuel. Do they have foreign interests? Perhaps, but certain situations are a bit far-fetched.

Okay so obviously things would evolve and a company of GMG's size would branch out to seek more profits. BUT, this is a game ( : you have to remember there are other factions out there and we try to keep them all as active as another to make things seem realistic. By plowing kicking someone off of their turf, you could hurt gameplay. Plus there's RP stuff besides what I've said.

^ Simple as possible.

Oh and you can't change base names etc so it would look odd.

I quite agree, not against the rules but could hurt other factions RP, but this is why I wanted to RP with USI Kishiro and even Boxex because of the area it is in and other companies so we don't (Kick them off the map)

The conversation must go on....

(07-30-2015, 08:31 AM)Laura C. Wrote: [ -> ]What I find weird on possible purchase of Swellendam by GMG| is that like two months ago you were not interested (at least it seemed so) in buying Otemachi POB which is in Okinawa, was in auction and GMG| didn´t have any POB at that time. Then, month ago, you were unable to fulfill even your inRP role of gas exporter when you complained in this post to owner of POB in Okinawa that the base is full and you can´t store more gas there so he should find some haulers to carry it out. I was really surprised when I saw that because I always thought that this is why GMG has Kujira transports - to export their gas to customers themself, not by hiring other corps for that job. But I said to myself "okay, maybe they want to focus on mining and patrolling only because they are not interested in trading".

Now you suddenly want to expand to far distant territory, run and supply POB there and be involved in ore mining business. What means a lot of trading (especially when we speak about such grind as POB supplying). It will also create weird situation when GMG| won´t have their own POB near mining location for selling their own raw gas/ore (like many mining factions have) but will own POB which will be quite unrelated to their main business.

I do have a problem with this post, as we did have first dibs with Otemachi Station, however it was at the point where GMG| was re-growing and we had no funds available to purchase the base, however at the present day, we do work with "Danny Boy" the owner. On keeping the daily materials stocked, if said station was to become available again we would be the first to buy, as the station is in our territory. Should it ever come a problem, GMG is strong enough to pull it down.

You also mentioned " Then, month ago, you were unable to fulfill even your inRP role of gas exporter" This is incorrect, as we have daily shipments of Helium-3 to give indie players a chance to mine and gain cash, that's why Shuri Station (Stone Brothers ownership) created the base with GMG| and I signed it over to them. Free of charge. *Your welcome to look that up*
However we wanted to push transport factions i.e Kishiro who aren't as active any more a chance to thrive. Call it game play building or keeping the server alive....

You also mentioned that we want to be involved in ore mining, no. We have no interesting in mining the ore ourselves, only to have a station that may carry our fuels and other commodites to sell like an open freeport across the sirius sector. If DSE wish to sell the ore at our stations they may, but why would they like USI said, they've got two stations made for themselves? Why come to GMG?

- Having a POB down in Liberty is not unrelated to business "we fuel sirius" means exactly that, we're the high force of Liberty's finest fuel economy, and we have every right to show this, we could also purchase, mox and other fuels and become a "reseller" of all fuels and resources in Liberty, ore is not our issue nor a worry of ours, we're letting dse do what dse does best.

In fact, it may be wise for GMG to refuse sale or purchase of Platinum Ore in this station to prove this. Cause that's what everyone's coming to here...

The story continues...

Bellck