(11-11-2016, 11:05 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: [ -> ]I don't agree with some points here. Who is in the position to tell what is inRP and what not? If GRN| (official) loses five Valors in Magellan, is that suddenly considered as "never happened"? I think that's a cheap way of ignoring the results of one's own actions. We basically had a similar discussion on this topic already in another thread, five months ago, where you made the statement "it's just a blue". That's not always the case, and on this, I guess there will never be a unity in the community. Some will say "It's just a blue without consequences" while others will say "It's an RP server and every action, from giving a single shot at something up to destroying a capital ship of an official faction are taking place in this roleplay-environment", and I'm one that shares the latter opinion.
In-game player deaths never had any inRP consequences. Some rare cases excluded (where the person was either
admin-restricted or where the player itself chose to suffer inRP consequences upon death (hardcore characters and similar)), dying in a space combat simulator that is Freelancer is basically meaningless. Apart from an MD or an occasional bounty hunt post, nobody actually takes the death as inRP, this is not EVE where you lose your ship upon death every single time. By your logic, the Auxesian capital vessel that died in Manchester yesterday is supposed to be gone or disassembled? Of course not. Everyone knows that dying ingame barely reflects the existance of that character or ship in the future, and don't take it seriously. In fact, they expect to fight that same vessel tomorrow like yesterday didn't happen. It's how it's always been and it's how it'll always be unless the concept of the game changes drastically. So to put it bluntly - in 99% of scenarios yes, it is "just a blue", wheter or not you agree with it. You
can make it not be meaningless, but that depends entirely on the owner of the ship, although there's no rule or restriction forcing him/her into making it that way which is why almost nobody does it (apart from the exceptions mentioned above).
That's why it doesn't make sense. Turning something meaningless into something meaningful without people's consent. If I died on my Lynx and said "yeah sure, use my parts", then alright, but if you used those parts without my approval, I wouldn't be happy to say the least. It's for the better, because if there were consequences upon death people would always resort to full tryhard mode such as refusing to fight unless you're certain you won't die which would result in people ganking each other left and right, disregarding fun and everything else I already talked about in one of your threads, all to prevent becoming a blue. I'm happy Freelancer doesn't have the mentality of League or Dota in regards to that, and would like it to remain that way.
(11-11-2016, 11:05 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: [ -> ]Now that hasn't to be neccessarily good or bad, but it's different, and most people that answered to this concept thread during the day before my first response were basically right with "You can't make everyone happy." - That's basically with everything you do, be it on the forum or ingame. Some people will insist on some SRPs being unjustified or beyond reasonable logic, while others will say it's okay, because even with such a massive bunch of known lore, Freelancer is still in a far away future, in a dystopy, where people are thousands-of-blues-surviving-badasses or underdogs. There is so much interpretation, imagination, representation and so much lacking clarity about what is inRP and what not. People ask if IDs are inRP. People ask if Junkers can pirate in Omega-3. People have totally differen opinions on how many people work on a ships of different sizes. Look up the factions that actually wrote how many people usually operate a single gunboat, and then look at the model, how many windows or seats it has in the cockpit. There is so many things just open for interpretation for the players, and so it totally doesn't matter whether it's just a blue or more. I see nothing to gain from an argument about that, aside from toxic people joining and doing what they can the best.
Of course you can't make everyone happy. Being a balance dev I know that better than anyone
. You don't even have to bother with pleasing everyone because it's physically impossible. As for the SRP part, the reason why they're looked so down upon nowadays is because the SRP system has no check-ins (once you get it, you're set), regulation of such by the admin team is basically nonexistant (you'd get your SRP revoked if you weren't active + had quality roleplay back in the day) and the approval of the SRP itself is
significantly easier to acquire. The player count went down while the SRP count went up because everyone wants to be a special snowflake. Without going too much into detail, check Scourge's post regarding that. He hit the nail on the head.
(11-11-2016, 11:05 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: [ -> ]That's basically the point where I will definitely piss of people by saying "Everything you do ingame can be considered inRP, no matter if you're official or not", because everything can be picked up ingame and the forum and used as an opportunity to roleplay around it. So here I take the debris of any ships and gather them. That includes even guys that sundive/planetdive/self-mine close to me. It, however, will not contain debris caused during the Re-engaging times of events or NPC debris.
And that would pass if Freelancer worked like EVE, but it doesn't. It makes sense to do that for ships that literally died inRP, such as for example me writing a story about 4 Lynxes getting ambushed by the Bretonians and leaving scrap floating everywhere, where you come in and salvage it. It sadly doesn't work for actual player ships in-game, because player ships are
not an accurate representation of inRP (man)power of a faction. That's why you can keep salvaging them for the sake of your roleplay and do everything you want -until- the part where you want to give/sell them to another faction, providing you somehow managed to fully assemble a ship and make it functional, because that's where you mix up apples and oranges as I've stated in my previous post.
(11-11-2016, 11:05 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: [ -> ]To answer your concern, however: What do you think will a freelancing group of people do with quasi-stolen technology? They are vultures, like Junkers, and that kind of inRP-work simply contains the theft of debris - as the debris where someones belonging before. That doesn't leave many opportunities open, don't you think? Option one would be contacting the owner/faction and make a deal for returning the stuff. That's what happened with Auxesia. And to be frank, I don't care whether the reasoning behind that decision was more because of inRP or because of ooRP concerns of having other people playing around with one's toys. As long as an inRP action causes inRP results, that's totally okay. Will GRN| be mad about stolen Lynxes? Yes, inRP in any case. OoRP? Welp, it's not like anyone should care about that kind of attitude. It's a game. You may can lead a faction, but the stuff isn't your stuff. There is only so much you can limit ingame, and one shouldn't limit everything. If Scyllas were still limited to SRPs, Lolberty wouldn't have much to do ingame.
Getting scrap of Lynxes that died inRP would give you a perfect and valid reason to do that (my 4 Lynx example above). Getting scrap of player Lynxes who became a blue would not. Even if player ships were inRP assets there's an entirely different problem here, which is why are Junkers/Freelancing salvagers being allowed to scrap military equipment and vessels (after a large battle), as if the said militaries don't have their own salvaging units for that. Especially Gallia who doesn't tolerate Sirians one bit. Junkers are salvagers, largest ones at that, but what kind of scrap do they salvage? Scrap no one else wants, apart from your usual debris fields where Junkers often have bases, they scrap ships and equipment after battles. What ships and equipment exactly? Leftovers of leftovers that others (let's keep using GRN for simplicity) didn't bother collecting until the end, but Junkers still find profit in. I hate giving real life examples but to try and explain it further - you don't see your local salvage service scrapping military tech that they spent/lost in a military excercise. No, military has their own people and vessels specifically tasked for that. What your local salvage service does do is scrap old cars, trucks and expendables from people's houses (washing machines, fridges), etc. I can understand it being a thing for small skirmishes (again, 4 Lynx example), but in large fights I fail to see the logic.
(11-11-2016, 11:05 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: [ -> ]However! Just as a fair reminder here: People don't need to use my concept's offer to get a ship of a foreign faction. I only offer a ramp of explanation here. You don't need to SRP a Freelancer Lynx. A backstory to it would be nice, yes, but it doesn't have to be.
Don't you think everyone would do that kind of roleplay to get tech of other factions if it was that easy? On top of everything stated above, players die
much more than actual inRP ships, which makes that type of salvaging significantly easier. If it really was that easy, you'd have everyone flying everyone's tech simply based on player deaths and not actual inRP deaths, which is wrong.
(11-11-2016, 11:05 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: [ -> ]Now that I think about it, I'm curious how many people in Aoi have authentic RP-explanations of the ships their use. I know there are undoubtly some of them, but I'm curious if all of them are supported with a background. I'm talking only about the ships, not the characters, as many characters have dots, colons and exclamation marks in their names.
Not sure what you're trying to prove here, but no faction has an explanation for each and every ship they get. If they did, we'd spend our (limited) time writing roleplay stories on forums forever and never get the time to actually play the game. I for one don't have time for that and would rather log in-game and do stuff there rather than write repetitive roleplay nobody cares about. Yes, it would get repetitive. I'll use Aoi as an example since you've mentioned it. It would get repetitive in a sense that most of the ships we use are being constructed on Heaven's Gate (Chimaeras and Umibozus), so those immediately get the same treatment of "I simply took a ship constructed there that nobody else is using and started flying it". Other, unavailable ships, would either be brought in before infection or would be ambushed and disabled from people flying them. After 2-3 stories of ambushing a fighter and taking off the ship that would also get pretty repetitive. That's why it's only worth roleplaying acquiring bigger ships, which after I took over is what we exactly did as
wrote
here. Anything else was already a property of Aoi before I joined (a Kudessie, Kusari gunboat, 2 Dragon gunboats, GRN gunboat and a KUBC), so I can't say much about that matter, but I'm sure it's digged somewhere deep in the forums. Similar things can be applied for most factions, and for them it'd also get repetitive eventually. Also, if they -did- roleplay for every single ship we'd reach unrealistic numbers, such as Liberty having over 150 unique Liberty Dreadnought logins or over 200 unique LABC logins only
in the past week. By that logic Liberty would be twice as strong as Gallia, which is not the case, because yet again player ships are
not an accurate representation of inRP (man)power of a faction. Funnily enough, Aoi actually does keep the numbers logical to an extent, which is why we don't have 20 gunboats and 10 cruisers but rather roleplay every single big ship we get our hands on, even though it's not expected nor a mandatory nor logical (the Navy example again).