Good day.
So in the past few days we have had two separate threads that are a result due to the lack of flexibility of 4.4 and how it interacts with situations of base sieges, large fights and other. Usually this was not much of an issue as the wording of the rule regarding attacking other players was portrayed as "result of some sort of roleplay", and it was a good enough catch for such situations.
Ever since the rules were redone, we are experiencing issues where the simplistic nature of a rule is stifling roleplay consequences or is making certain sanctions very problematic to process. Temporary no-fires and treaties should not be exempt from the game, unless those are the ones that make absolutely no sense.
The point of this thread is to gauge the Community's stance on situations where breaking 4.4 would be legitimate roleplay and how to possibly reword the rule so that it still retains its original purpose but is more lenient in certain situations. It should be noted that siege rules are on the list of being redone as well, but that is another topic, albeit related.
As usual, this thread will be highly moderated so please refrain from pointing fingers or sniping at one another. Contribute your suggestions regarding a fix and we will see if any of the suggestions can be merged with what we currently have in mind ourselves.
To be totally clear... you mean:
4.4 Every char must have only one type of ID equipped and they must play to that ID. In cases where these restrictions and allowances conflict with the server rules, the ID overrides the rules
In which case, can you be more specific as to what part here is needed to be fixing. The rule covers a LOT of things (also due to the admins trying to make the rules more 'simple' in writting but not really changing anything. Just wording).
But anyway , can you please be more specific and maybe give an example of something that went wrong?
Edit: welp i didnt see the sanction report was linked to this directly
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=145954
current rule wording:
Every char must have only one type of ID equipped and they must play to that ID. In cases where these restrictions and allowances conflict with the server rules, the ID overrides the rules
well to be honest it dosnt state anywhere there that there can be no temp treaties, but ok some ID says no allying with unlawfulls. however if lets say the LNS attacked the NC- while in bretonia space and while repelling a gallic attack then they would in fact be aiding the Gallics and killing the forces there to protect the bretonian and liberty allies, there for all of them would be subject to FR5 and considered hostile in all house space,
Second they where called to gether for a common purpose witch is to fend of the largest human threat to Sirius space witch is gallia, third fighting between them selves in bretonian space when all are friendly with bretonia is just stupid if im being blunt,
new rule wording:
Every char must have only one type of ID equipped and they must play to that ID. In cases where these restrictions and allowances conflict with the server rules, the ID overrides the rules unless supporting in game and forum RP state otherwise
This seems more fair and what actually happens otherwise how are the BAF and BPA allowed too, there ID clearly states not allowed to be allying with unlawfuls yet because of in game and forum RP they are now allowed to with the outcast and no change to there ID has been made to remove this line.
If the current rule is the way it is then every member of BPA and BAF who doesnt attack outcast in bretonian space should be warned as the 4.4 says, the ID rules over rids everything else
In regards to
this, all that is able to be said for the OC side is this: The line about allying with Bretonian lawfuls to fight Gallic Royal Navy is useless for the following reasons:
- As soon as another lawful besides a Bretonian one joins a fight, the Outcast is technically breaking ID rules. This cannot be avoided, this cannot be prevented, because it is a wording error in the ID that has been written by someone with insufficient foresight. The line simply cannot reasonably mean that there may be no other lawfuls present because otherwise, it would simply repeal itself. There is no way that there are no other lawfuls during a fight with the Gallic, especially not in Bretonia, especially not in Leeds, and in combination with the argument above, you cannot even do anything against another lawful joining and causing you to break ID lines even if you weren't when you started. If you interpret the line as strictly as displayed in the warning, it completely blocks this RP avenue for Outcasts.
- Outcasts have just as much of a valid reason to shoot the Gallic while allying with the Bretonians as the Crayterians do while being there with the Outcasts at the same time. Tell me, what is the logical reason behind this not being able to happen? The Outcasts are trying to get into Bretonia's pants, so why would they care if the Crayterians are there? If anything, it would be like an insult to them, since they cannot shoot the Outcasts without angering Bretonia in the process. It's a topsy-turvy wonderland in Bretonia where alliances are supposed to be unclear because all are vying for the grace of the Bretonian Crown.
What I'm saying here is that the ID lines should not be able to override common sense. Thus I propose the wording of 4.4 to be changed to the following:
Proposed Rule Change Wrote:Every char must have one singular ID equipped and should not overstep the bounds of their ID allowances. In cases where these restrictions and allowances conflict with the reality of gameplay, consider what the reasonable course of action might be in regards to roleplay reality and is still within the boundaries of the server rules and act accordingly.
The easy answer is that people could lay off on gangbanging Gallic players for once and consider taking a pop at each other every once in a while. I'm well aware that in the specific incident that spawned this thread GRN| was in the middle of attacking a base, so you could argue that in this one case an exception could be thrown out there, but it's not like this is an isolated sort of incident.
This sort of banding together has been going on for years now, with Tau-23 and Leeds being the worst offenders (LN, LSF, BAF, BPA, KE, CR, OC, Mollys, Council, and an ID-violating Blood Dragon is the record from some time in 2014, as I recall), but while the GRN playerbase has declined the incessant hunger of every "good guy" player on the server to kick them in the balls hasn't diminished one tiny bit.
Nomads/Wild have had the same problem for the longest time as well, but it's mitigated by the massive amount of interfactional warfare that generally goes on in the Omicrons anyway - Order and Core are about as likely to go on with the gay "we must ally to defend humanity!!" schtick as they are to turn around and tear chunks out of each other. In Bretonia, this doesn't happen for RP reasons, and it never used to happen in the Taus because we were active enough back then to justify it. There hasn't been a proper Tau-23 fight in years, though, so at least that side of things is a relative non-issue now.
(12-03-2016, 11:49 PM)Omicega Wrote: [ -> ]The easy answer is that people could lay off on gangbanging Gallic players for once and consider taking a pop at each other every once in a while. I'm well aware that in the specific incident that spawned this thread GRN| was in the middle of attacking a base, so you could argue that in this one case an exception could be thrown out there, but it's not like this is an isolated sort of incident.
This sort of banding together has been going on for years now, with Tau-23 and Leeds being the worst offenders (LN, LSF, BAF, BPA, KE, CR, OC, Mollys, Council, and an ID-violating Blood Dragon is the record from some time in 2014, as I recall), but while the GRN playerbase has declined the incessant hunger of every "good guy" player on the server to kick them in the balls hasn't diminished one tiny bit.
Nomads/Wild have had the same problem for the longest time as well, but it's mitigated by the massive amount of interfactional warfare that generally goes on in the Omicrons anyway - Order and Core are about as likely to go on with the gay "we must ally to defend humanity!!" schtick as they are to turn around and tear chunks out of each other. In Bretonia, this doesn't happen for RP reasons, and it never used to happen in the Taus because we were active enough back then to justify it. There hasn't been a proper Tau-23 fight in years, though, so at least that side of things is a relative non-issue now.
Another thing is that the Gallics are portrayed as the antagonists. And guess what? Nomads/Wild are the antagonists of the game.
Omicrons are different in atmosphere though, where as the Core are more likely to backstab, as their attitude is more towards the dominance side, elitism, etc. They're more of a 'antagonist in the process'. Whilst it's possible that there are manipulative people who'd stick with the more powerful, there's always the fear of the more dominant one crushing them after they're done with the rest.
Also, yes, don't complain, the "Humanity vs them" thing will always happen to one extent or another. It's /human/ nature to join together in fear. As for the preference choice, that's up to the person.
Concerning the rules, I think the topic of "legality status of factions in House Space" should be touched upon, or additionally, an optional rule line where different species can team up together: eg, gammu AI v humans, human v nomads/infectees, etc.
[02:07:20] Divine: just add a fucking line that says that players can basically do whatever the fuck they want if they can deal with the consequences inRP
That would require the removal of the renameme command and the removal of forum and out of game anonymity.
So what?
//Edit:
Then drop in a namechange-item. Costs some pretty credits and needs to be posted on the forums to actually get your name changed. Was done this way before the rename-command.
//Edit:
Actually this'll allow players some vastly more freedom in their gameplay as even military characters for example could now extort others inRP by extortion etc. Once he gets reported to the authorities (aka the official faction) for his actions, they can take it up and throw out some FRs.
Of course that's a lot of work coming the way of the staff, but it gives back more variety inRP to the players. Used to be like that. Same with the tech-restrictions, which had been forced upon people bc it was deemed too backhandedly done by the factions/groups. Still was more enjoyable than it's now.
This is not really a solution to 4.4 but rather the removal thereof. And IDs for that matter.