Discovery Gaming Community

//edit: I might have a slight calculation error in it. Will have to check. The general message: it takes freaking long remains.

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It's a fact that building and destroying a POB is in no relation to each other.

Let's have some numbers here:

A base becomes useful at Core 2 and a real thing only at Core 3 or higher. Therefore you have to have for example:

Core 1: Shield (60.000) + 1 Storage Unit (95.000) + Core upgrade (420.000) = 575.000 units to have a shielded Core 1.
Core 2: 1 Storage Unit (95.000) + Defense unit (80.000) + Core upgrade (420.000) = 1.170.000 units for a small mining base
Core 3: 1 Storage Unit (95.000) + Defense unit (80.000) + Core upgrade (420.000) = 1.765.000 units for a useful mining base

Statistically, I would guess that most flights for POBs are 1,5 systems, or roughly 50-70 k for average POB positions, and a lot longer for sub-optimal positions. As there are some hard-to-get commodities in each build, I guess an average of 8 minutes per flight - which is likely rather an optimistic pick.

This Mining POB of 1,765.000 units would need 353 flights with a pure 5ker. Let's assume the average flight time is 8 minutes:

353 flights x 8 minutes = 2842 minutes = 47,1 of pure hours of flight time for a Core 3 base that can go on to Core 4.

These are pure building times!
There is no maintainance done yet.
A base needs 2 flights per day.

So, you invest a lot of time. A LOT.

And destroying (of a Core 2) takes how many Battleships? A few. Rather easily manageable for a determined group. Then a Core 2 base (that took 234 flights of a 5ker to build, and roughly therefore needed 1872 minutes or 31 hours to build. Without maintainance!) can be destroyed in less than 1 hour of shooting.

Even the Core 1 that you kill easily took around 15 straight flight hours to build (assuming you kill it before it gets the Core upgrade finished, which is when most Core 1s die).

I'll just mention the monetary side, but won't do calculations. Just one thing: If you want to do Core upgrades in a reasonable time, you have to offer interesting prices and this costs you around 500.000.000 per core upgrade. Of course you can do it on your own, but then you will never get anywhere in a reasonable time frame.

So... comparing the cost, and especially the time it takes to build, and the effort it takes to destroy it, I think everybody can see that the system is very much in favour of the attacker who loses 1 hour, perhaps 2 hours, in comparison to time spans between 10- and 30-fold.

Yes, we need a different system.
Either bases need to be MUCH easier to build (like... cut the hauling requirements by 2/3) or they have to be really hard to destroy, with a heavy cost and some real risk on the attackers' side.

How this can be done?
I do not know.
But I think some sober numbers help to show how badly the system is in favour of attackers.

Place HM's on them

(01-28-2017, 08:59 PM)Zayne Carrick Wrote: [ -> ]Introduction of special siege ship, which can be destroyed once and for all and costs a fortune might make things interesting and balanced.

That's Simple the best suggestion ive read about this matter since im in Disco. Kudos on this guy, i agree 100%

Attackers build a siege platform (PoB). Siege platform takes a given amount of time (and maybe supplies of some kind) to damage and eventually destroy an enemy PoB. Owners of the PoB can try to shoot down the siege platform, so the siegers will have to be ready to, and be capable of defending it.

Siege "platforms" would cost credits / materials, of course, making it so you don't want to just siege random crap. Although the cost should be proportional to the damage you need to be doing to destroy the enemy PoB. Getting rid of a pesky illegal Core 1 base in New York shouldn't cost the Liberty Navy a fortune every time.

So yeah, introducing some risk to the attacking side so the boring "taping your right mouse button down" grind can go away, and so base owners no longer have to be the only party actually risking assets/credits in a conflict.

Make PoBs an official faction only thing. Each official faction should have a right to have such an installation in a place prior discussed with a member of the devs or the administation in order to make sure the placement makes RP sense and afterwards, it should be pretty hard to destroy, but not impossible (equivalent to the current Core 5 PoB). The idea behind this proposal is making these bases a place where official factions can decide to place a station of their faction in lore without needing to completely rely on dev decisions. They need to be supplied and so on, with the exception of Nomad/Wild bases.

(01-29-2017, 01:53 AM)Haste Wrote: [ -> ]Attackers build a siege platform (PoB). Siege platform takes a given amount of time (and maybe supplies of some kind) to damage and eventually destroy an enemy PoB. Owners of the PoB can try to shoot down the siege platform, so the siegers will have to be ready to, and be capable of defending it.

Siege "platforms" would cost credits / materials, of course, making it so you don't want to just siege random crap. Although the cost should be proportional to the damage you need to be doing to destroy the enemy PoB. Getting rid of a pesky illegal Core 1 base in New York shouldn't cost the Liberty Navy a fortune every time.

So yeah, introducing some risk to the attacking side so the boring "taping your right mouse button down" grind can go away, and so base owners no longer have to be the only party actually risking assets/credits in a conflict.

I like this idea.

I like Haste's proposal. The attackers must defend their platforms, and the defenders have to destroy them within a certain time, so the odds for both seem fair.

(01-29-2017, 02:06 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-29-2017, 01:53 AM)Haste Wrote: [ -> ]Attackers build a siege platform (PoB). Siege platform takes a given amount of time (and maybe supplies of some kind) to damage and eventually destroy an enemy PoB. Owners of the PoB can try to shoot down the siege platform, so the siegers will have to be ready to, and be capable of defending it.

Siege "platforms" would cost credits / materials, of course, making it so you don't want to just siege random crap. Although the cost should be proportional to the damage you need to be doing to destroy the enemy PoB. Getting rid of a pesky illegal Core 1 base in New York shouldn't cost the Liberty Navy a fortune every time.

So yeah, introducing some risk to the attacking side so the boring "taping your right mouse button down" grind can go away, and so base owners no longer have to be the only party actually risking assets/credits in a conflict.

I like this idea.

This is a good idea actually. I hope it gets implemented.

(01-28-2017, 08:01 PM)Croft Wrote: [ -> ]For simplicity's sake an attackers fee would probably be more managable, maybe half to 2/3rds the base's cost including modules?

(01-29-2017, 02:04 AM)Foxglove Wrote: [ -> ]Make PoBs an official faction only thing. Each official faction should have a right to have such an installation in a place prior discussed with a member of the devs or the administation in order to make sure the placement makes RP sense and afterwards, it should be pretty hard to destroy, but not impossible (equivalent to the current Core 5 PoB). The idea behind this proposal is making these bases a place where official factions can decide to place a station of their faction in lore without needing to completely rely on dev decisions. They need to be supplied and so on, with the exception of Nomad/Wild bases.

Both of these options I am in favor of

(01-29-2017, 02:04 AM)Foxglove Wrote: [ -> ]Make PoBs an official faction only thing. Each official faction should have a right to have such an installation in a place prior discussed with a member of the devs or the administation in order to make sure the placement makes RP sense and afterwards, it should be pretty hard to destroy, but not impossible (equivalent to the current Core 5 PoB). The idea behind this proposal is making these bases a place where official factions can decide to place a station of their faction in lore without needing to completely rely on dev decisions. They need to be supplied and so on, with the exception of Nomad/Wild bases.

Only issue with this is for newer players. Remember when i was new and official factions were not anything i knew about, but a few others i ran into we formed a group of our own and built a base because we found it an interesting thing in this game. (Oh cool we can build our own place!) Not to mention those who like the idea of owning their own base might not be interesting in joining an official faction to do so, plus even if they did an official faction already may have a base or more and not like the idea of another rookie building their own. (Mainly because they would want or expect help in supplies and or building etc. Or the faction they are may not have an official faction to join. Haste's seems like a better idea, population is low so need to remember to keep things not too out of reach for some who might be new to this.