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Full Version: Community Input: Omega-9 & Omega-11 Idea
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Running along the theory that there is benefit to be had in the act of assailing multiple avian animals, while utilizing a single or very few pieces of rock .... I have identified a few problems which align to a certain potential fix. We have brought this theory to the community to get your thoughts, since it affects a very broad selection of the player base. Please take note that this is a tentative idea, and we want productive input on it. This is not a place for fights, drama, or yelling about how this change will ruin everything.

Problem:
1 - People want to see change in Omega-11 (either pro-RM/DHC or pro-RH), as the system has been incredibly stagnant for some time now. Unfortunately, it's one of those dual-control systems where if Rheinland or the Hessians capture the other's base, activity likely goes kaput.
2 - People want to have space be more dangerous, which we have been working on, but could always do more. I've been working with our wonderful System Modifications Developers for the past several months on experimenting with numerous natural dangers.
3 - People want less "borderworlds" that the Houses have infringed upon, such as Hudson, Cortez, Magellan, Omega-3, and Omega-7.
4 - People want Omega-9 to be made more interesting, which we had tried with 4.89 Initial, but it seems that removing symmetrical properties wasn't enough. Fair point.
5 - People want Omega-9 to be made non existent because it is viewed as kind of a buffer system, which we have considered from time to time, and we have generally removed most others from this mod.
6 - Lore indicates that Omega-11's dying red giant star is already overdue for its own final nail ...

Solution:
A - Write Omega-11's doom into the lore (fixes 1, 3, & 6 above). Will happen in 4.89 Final or 4.90 Initial, depending on how long this discussion takes.
B - Place Omega-9 in its spot and with all its connections, sans the Stuttgart JG connection (fixes 5). It will retain the Stuttgart JH link, of course. Omega-5 would gain links to Cambridge and Omega-52 while it would lose its link to Omega-9, which may or may not see a slight redesign to accommodate a sixth jump hole properly.
C - Add our creative natural dangers to Omega-9 (fixes 2). The system will appear very differently than it is now
D - Add uncut diamond fields to Omega-9 (fixes 4). This will compensate for the loss of Omega-11's fields.

Potential Problems with the Solution: (identified by the other story developers when we discussed it yesterday)
I - DHC and RH both lose out, instead of gaining or maintaining. This could be solved by giving both factions a tiny base (to replace the base entries of Solarius and Freital), which they would have to roleplay around to build up. This could also be the source for some Admin-run events, but at the very least some player-driven ones.
II - People do not always enjoy massive changes to holdovers from Vanilla Freelancer in Discovery. However, I see this as a logical progression of Vanilla lore, just like California Minor being done soon.
III - In theory, Omega-11's sun could still not die for another few decades, not being the most exact science. I suppose this could be our back-out excuse if this idea isn't well received.
IV - Hessians, Coalition, the IMG, and others have already shown interest and (in some cases) put forth effort into claiming Omega-9 as it is now. I do not see this as changing much for them, except that in Omega-11's spot, it would be slightly harder for some factions (such as the IMG) to reach.
V - Space doesn't necessarily need to be made "more dangerous" - people just need to stop reporting each other to their allies as a means to get other factions mad at their rivals. Unfortunately, this isn't something I or any dev can fix, it has to be a community effort.


Please discuss or share the merits, pros, cons, kudos, problems, questions, concerns, comments, etc. about this proposition in a constructive manner. There is no immediate or pressing rush for a consensus, although if it is to make it in for 4.89 Final instead of 4.90 Initial, the decision should be made in roughly a fortnight from now.

Thanks for your time.
A slight retcon alternative for Omega 11.

According to an astronomy savvy friend of mine, O11's star is far too big regarding its infocard dimensions (it apparently exceeds even hyper giant classifications.) If the numbers where scalled back to the following:

Mass: 1.59 x 10e30
Diameter: 2.78 * 10e6 km

It would be back into the realm of a red giant with the added bonus of it not going supernova but collasping into a white dwarf while its exterior gets blown out to form a new nebula. Still potentially destructive but opens up some options.
(06-17-2017, 03:46 PM)Croft Wrote: [ -> ]A slight retcon alternative for Omega 11.

According to an astronomy savvy friend of mine, O11's star is far too big regarding its infocard dimensions (it apparently exceeds even hyper giant classifications.) If the numbers where scalled back to the following:

Mass: 1.59 x 10e30
Diameter: 2.78 * 10e6 km

It would be back into the realm of a red giant with the added bonus of it not going supernova but collasping into a white dwarf while its exterior gets blown out to form a new nebula. Still potentially destructive but opens up some options.

That would look more realistic. I would imagine O-11 enveloped in a nebula.
If it Supernovas, there's no reason why we can't still go in there. Once the initial blastwave has passed (which would happen at near lightspeed), Sirian spaceships should be able to survive inside the leftover field for at least a while. It would, however, be dangerous, with unequal radiation spread throughout the system (some pockets could be totally lethal).

Sensors also probably wouldn't work. You could do it Chi style with regards to navigation.

It creates some really interesting possibilities. Supernovae remnants are beautiful (anything from radiant blues to reddish purples), whilst the star itself would form into a neutron star in the middle of the system. All kinds of possibilities become available, including dark matter propagation from the destroyed gate.

People could try to mine gas there.
This looks as if you're just replacing 11 with 9. I think that 11 is better than 9, so 9 can simply be removed. Or repurposed.
I like the idea of hidden systems you can discover. You could simply place some hidden jump holes in O-11 which are leading to unknown systems. These could contain: mining fields, nomad ruins, dangerous one-way shortcuts to other systems, or what ever. By that way you could turn O-9 into a hidden wild west system, with rich diamond deposits, whose one and only entrance is O-11 - (fixes problem 1, 2, 3, 4, & partially 5). O-15 - which i really liked a lot - could also be recycled into one of these systems.
Croft has the right idea with the sun being in its final stages, if you ask me here's what Should happen.

The Omegas have been, and still should be the most dangerous region of space. Yea there's the argument that the nomads systems should be dangerous, but given the other factions that live there in comparison to the radical factions and similar nomad presence in the Omegas, the Omegas are far far FAR more radical.

Omega-11 as croft said, should turn into a wasteland but STILL with diamond fields, the radiation from the pulsar/neutron start that COULD in theory go in the center of the nebula encompassing most of the system including the asteroid field, can be deadly. Maybe make the cloud much more dark, black even, with some fancy lighting or what not. Make the rocks within this hypothetical nebula large but not to dense, similar to Alberta. Then comes the question of "who would expand and who wouldn't" while I personally think the Hessians would capitalize on the catastrophe by moving more forces into the system to control the diamond fields, I doubt Daumann would want to let go. In my opinion, it's always made more sense to me for the Hessians to gun for Omega-11 more than Dresden (part of the reason I've never pushed for Dresden's complete capture) since its corporate territory and the Hessians (by lore) rival the corporations FAR more than the Military.

With this in mind the Hessians could gun down Solarious, which would force Daumann miners to move into the system to mine with no base in the system to fall back on, making the Omega system more lawless and dangerous and forcing miners to bring escorts. It wouldn't kill activity at all, they can still go mine in the system, they just wont have an absurdly close base to run to in the event a pirate shows up. Currently the system is dead and I never pursue piracy in Omega-11 because it's completely pointless. Freital is SO far from the mining field and Solarious that its totally pointless to attempt and pirate miners in the field. Take away solarious, you have a bit more of a dangerous scenario. If it still doesn't seem too fair for the miners, increase the value of the export, diamonds are, well, DIAMONDS. They're valuable to civilians because obviously they're a symbol of wealth/status in all houses, and civilian numbers are quite large in comparison to that of the military. Given Rheinland is neutral with every house currently, they have more buyers than any other house. So making the export value higher would make sense in theory. Up the export price for daumann AND Kruger to encourage mining in the system, make it more scenic, make the system more dangerous by removing solarious, you have a dangerous omega system still populated by lawfuls trying to make money, and an interesting scenario for pirates.

As for Omega-9, its the same deal, throw a mining field close to the sun, disconnect the system from Cambridge to remove lawful influence, instead as ALL of the Omega leaders agreed, connect Cambridge to Omega-5. Make the clouds more scenic in the same sense as Omega-11 only with the collective yellow cloud with large low dense diamond rocks, ta-da. Leave the system without any faction holding any human base in the system, instead, put a wild base in the system so miners weather they're daumann/IMG/Hessian/SCRA have something to worry about on top of the Corsairs. People might make the argument that Omega-58 is enough, but any miner using the playerlist (which is literally every miner lets be honest here) will see the Wild coming from a mile away if they decide to log and make a run for it.

This imo, is the best case scenario, deleting Omega-11 or leaving it as it is will only further kill pirate miner interactions and leave the systems in a state of being cambrigdge mk2 or Stuttgart mk2.
Supernova? Sectoral Wild West? Diamond fever? Super secret jumpholes? Nebulae? Radiation? EXPLOSIONS?!
Oh, yes, please, do it that way, I can imagine the clusterbang that will happen out there.
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On subject of O-11:
I rather it not be gutted and maimed to make one system "interesting" for the sake of "progression" whatever that is.

Obviously as DHC lead, I'm not in favour of this idea. This isn't some small change like Cali Minor where it gets a reskin, no you're proposing (potentially) culling a system integral to not only (huge part of) DHC lore but also that of Kruger's and Red Hessians'.

Quote:D - Add uncut diamond fields to Omega-9 (fixes 4). This will compensate for the loss of Omega-11's fields.
No. Just, no. How about instead of that add one or two mining fields with the bonus shared across BMM, DHC, Kruger and IMG? Maybe that can create some more interesting scenarios where there is absolute lawlessness like piracy, corporate warfare, etc? That would fix this whole "Border Worlds have been infringed upon by houses" and "space isn't dangerous enough" narrative. That narrative itself, I'm not sure where it stems from, perhaps it's because 90% of the server pop sits in front of Manhattan? It's impossible to NOT run into a pirate whether it be indie or official while mining or hauling in the Omegas. As an example, during the last 3 organized mining ops we had in O-7 and O-11, we were greeted by a fleet of Hessians each time. That argument is void in my experience.

While I understand that this is just tentative and only a discussion at this point, overall it seems to me that we're looking to fix issues were none really exist, in case of O-11 anyway.
I pretty much agree with Wusker here, just a few points.

1.) Omega-9 is featureless, completely uninteresting. If mining fields are moved there, regardless of the exact fate of Omega-11, it will need a major redesign. In particular, it was very disappointing that Omega-9 essentially took the place of a system that actually was interesting, that being Omega-15.
That system had two cool stars, several stations, mysterious wrecks, planets....it was a fantastic example of a well-designed system. Why it was replaced by the honestly terrible design of O-9, I still don't know, but if it's to be important, it needs to be interesting.

2.) Killing off O-11 is not a good idea. It's one of the most iconic vanilla systems, it's the origin of the nomad infestation, its layout is like nothing else. If anything, it should be given a more important role in the Omegas, not a less important one. This is the fate that has befallen Omicron Theta, once the crucial meeting point of the Omegas, Sigmas, and Omicrons, now condemned to an obscure edge worlds filler system. Please don't do that to 11.

3.) Space is dangerous/Wild West/Shady Business, any variant of this proposition is instantly voided by a system being within House Lawful ZOI. Those two are not compatible. If the intention is to make a mining location in the "space is dangerous" region, it will have to be outside of Rheinland (or Bretonia) ZOI.

4.) Minor technicality, but diamond prices to Lyonnais are currently broken. The allegedly fastest route is as follows: Omega-55, Omicron Gamma, Omicron Xi, Omicron Beta, Omicron Alpha, Omicron Tau, Lorraine, Lyonnais. That's a lawful ore route that entirely avoids lanes, goes through both Hispanic capitals, and is incorrectly timed because the Lorraine minefield isn't accounted for. It needs fixing regardless of where the exact mining location ends up being.
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