(07-25-2017, 09:23 AM)sindroms Wrote: [ -> ]Have you guys figured out how to adjust the mechanics themselves so to make mining a group thing again, for high-value ore above 4k per unit? It is rather sad to see such a mechanic go to waste as POBs allow self-mining in the stead of large/daily mining operations.
Large Mining operations? If this were 8 years ago when we had 150 players at peak times, I could agree with you. As it is, the server rarely has more that 80 people on at peak times, and 1/5 of those are hanging out in Conn watching the players list, waiting for someone to pass by a system they control to switch characters and get an "interaction".
POBs do not "Self Mine". They take time to build and supply. It takes time mine and store. It then takes time to transport the mined material to its high sell point destination. All of which creates opportunities for ingame RolePlay to take place.
If you want to make "Group Mining" a thing again. Restrict the ability to mine Ore to freighter sized ships only. Having 2k+ sized Transports that can mine Ore is more of a problem for "Group Mining" than "Self Mining" POBs.
(07-25-2017, 09:31 AM)The Sovereign Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017, 09:23 AM)sindroms Wrote: [ -> ]Have you guys figured out how to adjust the mechanics themselves so to make mining a group thing again, for high-value ore above 4k per unit? It is rather sad to see such a mechanic go to waste as POBs allow self-mining in the stead of large/daily mining operations.
In the same grain as this, it would be really cool if when you mined the ore dropped in space, and people would have to tractor it. Yes, it makes stealing ore possible, and ore being destroyed would be what bird culture considers a dick move, but it would encourage escorts and rp around the mining, as it creates new ways to interact.
I think the thing with Ore floating in space, and why it was changed, was the fact that having Ore clouds floating around, caused an incredible amount of server lag. If I remember correctly.
The only change you get from that is people mashing the B key.
(07-25-2017, 10:00 AM)oZoneRanger Wrote: [ -> ]If you want to make "Group Mining" a thing again. Restrict the ability to mine Ore to freighter sized ships only. Having 2k+ sized Transports that can mine Ore is more of a problem for "Group Mining" than "Self Mining" POBs.
Quite the opposite. If you're doing a group mining op you shouldn't use anything bigger than a freighter for mining to begin with. Freighters mine much faster than a Hegemon/Kamome can, and it's much safer + cruises faster, directly resulting in profit with the amount of time saved. The only instance where a ship bigger than a freighter is viable for mining is if you're alone, be it for filling up a POB or hauling the ore yourself. As soon as you have another person (or more), one being in a freighter/light fighter (the Surveyor is by far the best mining ship in the game, but it requires the transport to be at the site already) and the other ones in large transports is much better.
(07-25-2017, 11:36 AM)Antonio Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2017, 10:00 AM)oZoneRanger Wrote: [ -> ]If you want to make "Group Mining" a thing again. Restrict the ability to mine Ore to freighter sized ships only. Having 2k+ sized Transports that can mine Ore is more of a problem for "Group Mining" than "Self Mining" POBs.
Quite the opposite. If you're doing a group mining op you shouldn't use anything bigger than a freighter for mining to begin with. Freighters mine much faster than a Hegemon/Kamome can, and it's much safer + cruises faster, directly resulting in profit with the amount of time saved. The only instance where a ship bigger than a freighter is viable for mining is if you're alone, be it for filling up a POB or hauling the ore yourself. As soon as you have another person (or more), one being in a freighter/light fighter (the Surveyor is by far the best mining ship in the game, but it requires the transport to be at the site already) and the other ones in large transports is much better.
Right...and most "Solo Mining" is done in Transports that can mine. Which is the "in" thing right now. Solo mine in 2k+Transport and transfer to a base, get a 5k load together, and change to an Advanced Stork and deliver the goods.
Transports that can "Solo Mine" at a decent rate are what is a danger to "Group Mining" more than having a PoB close by that you can transfer to. If you can go it alone, no need to co-operate with anyone.
That is what I think we are trying to get away from. That is why I suggested to, restrict the mining to freighters sized ships and below. Limiting Ore mining to smaller vessels makes the time needed to mine a 5k load of ore not worth the travel time involved, and thus, would push people to group up to mine.
Maybe reduce mining only for freighters and miner ships, maybe then smaller ship u have, then more rate u will gain (fihters are exluded ofc) -surveyor 2.5x -hegemon 1.0 +bonuses from ID u carry, ~~
IMG indie ID on Cobalt +2.5x so it will be 2.5x+2.5x=5x rate on this
IMG official ID on Cobalt +3x so it will be 3x+2.5x=5.5x rate on this
just as example
There are a few more specifics I noticed.
GMS cannot ship its aluminum ore anywhere. All buyers are hostile.
Bering and Texas as premium scrap sources create an undesirable redundancy. Again, with the players we have it's problematic if a mining operation has the option to move a system over to evade piracy. It also creates problems for pricing.
The same applies to Orkney and Tau-23 being Niobium sources, and Sigma-13 and 19 being Helium-3 sources.
Aquabat buying Helium-3 is problematic, as it is a short route in a very quiet part of space completely away from lanes and traffic (though to be fair this problem already exists).
Also now that I've had some more time, I'd like to make a more general comment on this.
Since it isn't really explained in the original post, I must ask what the reasoning for this fairly wide-ranging overhaul is?
Besides maybe a couple specific issues, I wasn't aware that there were major problems with the previous selection of buyers.
What I notice from these changes is that they significantly diversify ore buyers in the houses. As an example, Liberty has Manhattan, Denver, Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Detroit, and St. Albans, all buying various ores. This is highly problematic for piracy as there is no easily determinable standard route, and thus less of an opportunity to catch ore-bearing traffic. With the player numbers we have, I think that would be something to be desired.
I think it's preferable to have only two ore buyers per house to streamline traffic and facilitate piracy.
Another problem with changing buyers is that established roleplay may suffer. Groups may have had specific arrangements with previous buyers which now no longer purchase an ore.
While we already saw it that we had some brain failes there, we will change a few sellpoints. As I already said in another post, this sellpoints are not fix, this is like the early early alpha.
About the second part, I will bring it up to the economy chag.
Stay tune!
I will have to check the details of this, however I want to make one general remark:
I firmly believe that concentration on fewer systems of origin would make gameplay better, as it makes encounters more freuquent.
T29, T23 and Orkney now have mining fields. I think it would be better to design a system in which all the relevant mining groups have access. It would increase activity a lot.
S13 and S19 can be merged, imo.
Omicron mining systems would also be cool if they were concentrated in 1 spot.
I think you get my point.
With the current low population in Disco, concentration on fewer key-action hubs is a necessity, imo.
(07-25-2017, 06:32 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: [ -> ]I will have to check the details of this, however I want to make one general remark:
I firmly believe that concentration on fewer systems of origin would make gameplay better, as it makes encounters more freuquent.
T29, T23 and Orkney now have mining fields. I think it would be better to design a system in which all the relevant mining groups have access. It would increase activity a lot.
S13 and S19 can be merged, imo.
Omicron mining systems would also be cool if they were concentrated in 1 spot.
I think you get my point.
With the current low population in Disco, concentration on fewer key-action hubs is a necessity, imo.
Yeah, we are already discussing that, since we also had the idea to move specific fields in the same system to max the acitivity at that point. So miners and, traders seriously require protection when they are going to, start a mining operation.
Edit: Thanks to everyone who gave us his feedback so far.