[RM-MND]Hans.Eckhard has been sanctioned for:
Quote:3.9 Having more than 1 ID per Tag. Faction Tags Rules can be found Here.
Consequences:
You are currently using the RM tag with a Wild ID, as the above rule states this is not allowed and you do not possess any special exemption from it. Please pick a new name for the ship, it will remain in bastille until you have done so.
If you require evidence, you may request such via PM from a Staff member. Only the accused or an official faction leader of the accused person's faction may request such. Once you have the evidence, and if you wish to dispute it, you may post in the Sanction Thread below. Do not continue PM'ing a staff member, as that will result in your Appeal being denied. If you PM a staff or post in the sanction thread and you are not directly involved, you are consenting to be subjected to the reprisal of my choice which may involve in game repercussions up to a ban. Blaming members of your immediate family, neighbors, friends, pets, and assorted Orcs, Trolls and any other legendary creatures may result in the use of Admin Right #CTE 750AE
Guess as faction leader I might give my 2,5 cents on this.
This ship has been using this tag since the character was created over 7 years ago. Back then the [RM] leadership has been made aware of the plans to use this ship, ID and tag combination and approved it (even though it is close to their own tag), as it opens rather nice RP possibilities. Claming that there is no special exemption from it is a rather wierd thing to do in this case, as the ship and permission are much older than the rule you quote.
Also bear in mind that the tag is not used by the official [RM] faction and appart of starting with the [RM-, which indeed makes its activity count towards the [RM] faction in the tracker due to its mechanics, has no connection to this player faction.
This appears to make it as good as every other Indie-tag, or do you want to ban all independent players from using parts of faction tags, that could happen to appear on the faction tracker? If that is the case I would wish you good luck and a lot of fun in finding them all, as they work as prefix and suffix.
Considering that the tag in question is not a tag used by an official faction, the tag should be considered as an independent one. Thats why I do interpret a ship using a tag like this as an untagged official faction ship according to this:
* While your faction tag is needed for the activity tracker, some groups have members untagged, but flying with the Official Player Faction ID. This is acceptable, and not against the rules, but will not count towards your faction's activity. Keep in mind, this only applies to the tag. If you're tagged as/a member of an official faction, you're required to use that faction's ID.
So, would you enlighten me what the reasoning behind this sanction is? Because I honestly do not see the problem.
The [RM-MND] tag is not used by the official RM faction and has not been listed as one of their possible tags for many years. If the ship in question is indeed violating a rule, why did you sanction it now and not when this addition to the rules was added? The ship has been and is well known to players in Rheinland, so if it realyl would have been a problem, it likely would not have gone unnoticed until now.
Additional the player in question got the permission to use this specific tag from the [RM] leadership back then. The tag is likely not used by any other [RM] player these days, so why would you consider it to be an official tag belonging to the [RM] faction, if it is not used by them, while the only person using it was allowed to use it? A small additional hint here, the [RM]s official faction status lists [RM] as their official faction tag.
I would be very happy if you could unbastille the ship in question, as this sanction seems like the work of someone that (for whatever reason) just did not find a better way to ruin the fun of someone else.
Also if you have any evidence or further information on this, please forward it.
Hello, Jensen.
If we had the ability to process every rule infringement automatically, there would be no need for Admins. It is up to you as a player, even more so, as a faction leader to prevent these issues firsthand.
The faction tag that is used for the tracker is defined as "[RM" in the config file. Needless to say, this ship fits the description. In the past the administration team have sanctioned players for these sort of antics. RNC ships using LNS tags have been sanctioned due to the conflict of interests this might end up causing, along with abuse of the server mechanics such as the /fi command, where your hostile-to-rheinland ID would end up in groups it should not be in. Your use of this tag is also bordering powergaming, where you may try to force your roleplay consequences on a faction's tag. This is not going to be allowed.
If you are inclined to roleplay this as a spy, have the owner of the ship join the faction in question and talk to the leader of said faction to allow this sort of roleplay progression.
Until then, you - as anyone else, are bound by the rule quoted above.
This is indeed correct. But as outlined above I do not consider this to be any kind of rule breach, as such it appears to be my responsibility as a faction leader to point this out to you.
How exactly does a config file, which essentially is a tool to make administration easier, have more importance than the official faction status, which is the document defining things such as tags or IDs a faction is going to use? I fail to find any mentioning of said config file within the rules. There also is no reference that said config file is a reference I or my faction have to consider. As such it appears to be not binding to me.
If you can point me to any incidents where the ship in queston has abused the tag for anything malicious, such as joining groups to ruin someones day or abusing the tag to powergame, please do so and I will gladly consider this point. Otherwise I'd think that Admins should go by the 'unguilty until proven otherwise' kind of standard, unless things changed rather drastically?
The ship is, unlike the RNC/LNS example you mentioned, there to be an addition to the RP environment and not there to cause any OORP issues for players of factions opposing us. As mentioned previously, the ship has existed for quite some time. I am not aware that it has caused any of the above issues within that timeframe, while it certainly has contributed to the RP enviornment of the server in various ways, such as being one of the reasons for the Omega-3 conflict between Rheinland and Bretonia, which at least in my opinion was a rather funny thing for everyone involved.
So yet again, I kindly ask you to reconsider this sanction.
Hi, I will speak as the 2ic of RM here, Iber will post something aswell I guess. However the player behind that ship isn't a member of [RM] anymore, our leadership got changed a lot times since then. It is also creating a view that RM is part of Das Wilde when the player is in a group with |Aoi/Wilde. We don't want to harm any rp and fun behind it. Its simply confusing seeing a [RM-MND] tagged player on the playerlist being around with Wilde. However as I was told the RM-MND division was disbanded long ago. We would be pleased if the player behind it would not use [RM-MND] or any [RM] Tag which could be tracked back to us.
For activity tracking purposes and due to the RM-MND tag having been a thing the official tag of Rheinland Military is [RM.
I request the admin team to detag the ship(s) in question should the owner(s) oppose to this measure as they are no longer members of [RM].
Furthermore, Rheinland Military does not endorse this roleplay in any way shape or form as we have seen it be abused many times in the past before, especially towards newer players who are unaware of the nature of nomad infectees and interpret them as legitimate [RM], leading to faction right 2 abuse by the offending party, which we consider absolutely disgusting and of poor taste for any faction or player be it an official one or not. I believe I was not made aware of these ships existing as Wilde knows I oppose to them. We also consider this to be the same case as the RNC vs LNS example.
- RM lead.
The ship has been renamed to Wilde.Hans.Eckhard and placed on Ludendorf Base.
2 million credits have been deducted from the ship.
(11-11-2017, 10:53 PM)Yber Wrote: [ -> ]For activity tracking purposes and due to the RM-MND tag having been a thing the official tag of Rheinland Military is [RM.
I request the admin team to detag the ship(s) in question should the owner(s) oppose to this measure as they are no longer members of [RM].
Furthermore, Rheinland Military does not endorse this roleplay in any way shape or form as we have seen it be abused many times in the past before, especially towards newer players who are unaware of the nature of nomad infectees and interpret them as legitimate [RM], leading to faction right 2 abuse by the offending party, which we consider absolutely disgusting and of poor taste for any faction or player be it an official one or not. I believe I was not made aware of these ships existing as Wilde knows I oppose to them. We also consider this to be the same case as the RNC vs LNS example.
- RM lead.
Sorry Yber but it is not our problem, if your faction leadership changes without passing on information on things that have existed before your time on this server even started. Previous [RM] faction leaderships, be it Malexa, Lobster, Landers, Alec whoever else also led the faction in all that time, did know about it and did not have any issue with it, so pulling a stunt like this just because you dont know things, is something I'd consider as rather bad form or as you put it so nicely 'disgusting'.
Considering that it right now appears as if this sanction is either coming from you or your 2iC, I am not angry, I am just extremely disappointed in you guys as persons. Its rather sad that you were unable to just give us a short message asking about the ship and its history. You both know that I am leading the Wilde faction, you both also likely know the player behind the character.
Claiming that the player in question has abused a faction right is just messed up, as you just mentioned that you didnt even know the ship existed, so how would you be able to seriously judge any kind of 'abuse' coming from it? If you have any kind of evidence for this, then please forward it and I will talk to the player in question. If not, then I will just ignore this kind of accusation as 'disgusting'.
If you simply had asked about the ship and had mentioned that the tag is a problem, then we could just have talked about it and changed the tag. Doing it this way is something that is just showing me yet another facade of what is going really wrong around here, but yeah, I guess sanctionlancer is a great game to play. We will accept the Admin decision in this case, even though it is still something I do not consider to be a good solution.
On anther note and this one also goes to the Admins: I would strongly advise you to adapt your official faction status, if you consider to use [RM as your official faction tag. Right now this is, at least based on the documents relevant in the scope of the rules, not the case and I do not see how the [RM] would be any different from other factions, which do use the tag they have listed in their official faction status for all their ships and subgroups.
I accept the sanction, even though the character with its tag exists for more than seven years, I am so disgusted that discovery staff is resorting in such for me not understandable sanctions in times when there are so little players still playing the game, discouraging older people to keep playing here.
But to be honest the official RM faction could have contacted me and tell me that my character is harming their roleplay and that it might be causing conflicts with other factions, which was pretty encouraged in the past...
For my defense here is the statement of the RM leader back in the day when people tend to ask questions:
https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=55324
(02-20-2011, 01:02 PM)Sturmwind Wrote: [ -> ]Q6: What is all this? I thought the [RM-MND] were a Wild faction...?
Q6: That misassumption originates from the fact that a Wild member carries the [RM-MND] tag with our permit to enhance his role play. The person in question, Hans Eckhard, was an ex-MND operative who was lost during an Omega reconnaissance mission, admittedly succumbed to alien influence. No other [RM-MND] members are infested and they all carry a Marienachrichtendienst identification.
[RM-MND]Hans Eckhard was a real character created in 2009 and was infected in space as a spontageus in game encounter with Das Wilde players back in 2010. The character name was never changed. It was also one of the characters that supported the omega conflict between RM and BAF.
To be honest I enjoyed my time with the character as I could experience not to be metagamed by players that did not know about the character and treated me based on the name, roleplay and my behavior instead of seeing the activity Wilde. tag, what is the wet dream of every wild player.
As I remember when Lambda was leading he did infact pm you ingame and told you to rename.
Also if there was such a huge problem for you being told to rename, why didn't you simply contact the current leaders?
Linky