Discovery Gaming Community

I noticed some feedback that trials could be discussed before implementation, so I figured I'd give it a shot. We'll also be talking about trials after implementation, and in fact, this series shall rotate between 4.90.2/Middle and 4.90.1/Initial. Time permitting, and providing that these discussions are indeed fruitful (consider this a trial of itself), this will be the first in a weekly series of eight trial discussions. Four for the next patch, and four for the previous one. To start it all off, I've chosen an easy(ish) one. Next week's topic will be on the impacts of the Removal of Omega-9 [4.90.1]. This current thread is not a feedback thread for that or any other trial; please keep it on topic.

Background: One of the main goals of 4.90 is to provide all seventy factions of the game meaningful storyline progression, which presents itself in at least one system or infocard change. This can be in Initial, Middle, or Final, and in addition to the main wars or other story events. It's not an easy feat, but since 4.90 planning began at the end of last summer, we've narrowed it down to five remaining factions without any concrete 4.90 plans.

The three relevant to this discussion thread are Universal Shipping, Incorporated (USI), Borderworlds Exports (Bowex), and Republican Shipping (RS/RepEx). As shipping corporations, they are among the hardest to develop plans for. They tend not to send invasive capital ships to war-torn systems or capture hostile bases. At most, they build new ones or potentially purchase another company's station. So, along these lines, we (being the story developers) have devised an idea for all three of them, but it's a little tenuous right now.

Trade generates wealth, so as the premier shipping corporations of their respective Houses, they could greatly increase their ease of access to foreign trade by building or purchasing a facility in another House. It would go something like this:

• Republican Shipping could build or purchase one in Bretonia or Liberty
  
• Universal Shipping could build or purchase one in Rheinland or Bretonia
  
• Borderworlds Exports could build or purchase one in Liberty or Rheinland
  

This plan could be visualized as a triangle between Bretonia, Liberty, and Rheinland. The problem is picking which House each corporation sets up shop in, then deciding upon a system, and finally figuring out if they're buying or constructing anew. We already have some ideas in mind, but are interested to hear what the community at large thinks.

Counterargument: multinational corporations might be considered by some as a threat that may infringe upon the sovereignty of the House's system which they have chosen to set up in, potentially diminishing their sense of control over the region in question, despite any beneficial economic implications of allowing it to happen. Further, there could be issues of unlawfuls (or other chased parties, enemies of the state, etc.) who are not rephacked to these facilities possibly using them to dock and evade capture, leading to much gnashing of teeth. Thus, the story planning developers ought to find another way to grant the aforementioned factions a means of progression.

Which way should the "triangle" flow, and why? Which systems/locations make the most sense to you, and why? Or why doesn't this plan work? No matter if you take up a stance for or against the overall idea, tell us why you came to that conclusion. Bonus points if you convincingly debate many sides (clockwise vs. counterclockwise triangle flow rotation; idea is good vs. idea is bad; preferred systems; etc.) of this in order to help everyone arrive at a more informed conclusion.

Interspace Commerce is a thing already.

I think Bowex should roll into Liberty more than rheinland as a gesture for Liberty's continued help against Gallia and trade more with Liberty, for mutual gains and indirectly bolstering Liberty's ranks. On the other hand, There is IC as SnakThree stated which is a Liberty based corp. So there is little to no need for USI to branch out of liberty at all. RS could test the waters with Bretonia first and then go to Liberty.

Alster (Republican Shipping) got lots of sympathy after the Gas Attack by the Unioners. Perhaps an infocard change to reflect the attack happened, the recovery, and the goodwill towards republican after the attack, would chain well as a change for Republican.

I do love the triangle trade idea. A universal shipping station in Rheinland would play into the anti-globalisation Rhetoric of Rheinland protectionist groups, as well. In the same way that they're repulsed by Bonn's management.

I think it would be better choice if Borderworlds Exports would build or purchase a base in Liberty, makes more sense

(01-27-2018, 06:00 PM)SnakThree Wrote: [ -> ]Interspace Commerce is a thing already.

As Snak3 laconically put it, there already are space stations that serve the purpose you are proposing, and they belong to IC.

The lore behind it is this:

Quote:As part of the Sirius Commerce Pact, Universal and other Libertonian companies cannot own any permanent bases within Kusari space outside of New Tokyo. So we rent space from IC on the Roppongi Station and use it as our transfer point for Construction Supplies and Jump Gate Parts for the project in Hokkaido.

Quote:Our office was planetside on New Tokyo before the Trade Lane Dispute of 521. At that time we were evicted from Kusari space. Financial transactions between the Liberty and Kusari governments during the 80-Years War led to an amendment in the Sirius Commerce Pact in 710 that allowed us to establish a base in New Tokyo. Roppongi was built shortly thereafter.

Quote:The tolls that Kusari and Rheinland had to pay us were not nearly the full amount that we had put up to fund their Jump Gates. The compromise reached in the Sirius Commerce Pact was not a compromise for our corporation, but unfortunately Liberty didn’t have the military clout to enforce the payment of Rheinland and Kusari’s debts to us.

The quotes are from vanilla infocards (FLInfocardIE: search commerce)

I would appreciate it if you wouldn't break vanilla lore more then it already is broken.

I can offer an alternative solution in order to increase the interest in the main shipping corporations but it's tangential to the subject of this thread, and i don't want to risk another ban for stating my opinions.

(01-27-2018, 05:53 PM)Teerin Wrote: [ -> ]Which way should the "triangle" flow, and why? Which systems/locations make the most sense to you, and why? Or why doesn't this plan work? No matter if you take up a stance for or against the overall idea, tell us why you came to that conclusion. Bonus points if you convincingly debate many sides (clockwise vs. counterclockwise triangle flow rotation; idea is good vs. idea is bad; preferred systems; etc.) of this in order to help everyone arrive at a more informed conclusion.

From what I can gather from the OP which may or may not give the complete picture, there are several levels of ideas expressed here, some of which seem good and productive, some of which seem bad and counter-productive, some of which I have no opinion on.

(01-27-2018, 05:53 PM)Teerin Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed some feedback that trials could be discussed before implementation, so I figured I'd give it a shot. We'll also be talking about trials after implementation, and in fact, this series shall rotate between 4.90.2/Middle and 4.90.1/Initial. Time permitting, and providing that these discussions are indeed fruitful (consider this a trial of itself), this will be the first in a weekly series of eight trial discussions. Four for the next patch, and four for the previous one.

Overall, it's very good that you ask the community about something in the open, and not just official faction leaders behind closed doors. The two will most likely give you radically differing perspectives, and I wouldn't be surprised if even the same person will sound different behind closed doors and in the open. But although you opened the OP by explaining the basic idea of this approach, I suspect it's not really what you want to discuss here, so I recommend additionally opening a "Developer Feedback" thread similar to the "Admin Feedback" one, where a wider range of subjects can be addressed.

(01-27-2018, 05:53 PM)Teerin Wrote: [ -> ]Background: One of the main goals of 4.90 is to provide all seventy factions of the game meaningful storyline progression, which presents itself in at least one system or infocard change. This can be in Initial, Middle, or Final, and in addition to the main wars or other story events. It's not an easy feat, but since 4.90 planning began at the end of last summer, we've narrowed it down to five remaining factions without any concrete 4.90 plans.

Maybe I misunderstand, but this sounds like you're pushing for developments in every single faction not because it was requested, not because a particular development was deemed necessary, not because you had good ideas that you wanted to implement, but simply for the sake of making developments in every single faction. Given the multiple mentions of "overwhelming work load" when declining to do something that even devs agree is urgently needed, literally looking to find more things to do which no one asked for and which you didn't identify as necessary yourselves seems like an incredibly counter-productive approach. Especially since, as I believe, it's common knowledge that there are things that need to be urgently done (which I won't mention here because they're other topics).

(01-27-2018, 05:53 PM)Teerin Wrote: [ -> ]The three relevant to this discussion thread are Universal Shipping, Incorporated (USI), Borderworlds Exports (Bowex), and Republican Shipping (RS/RepEx). As shipping corporations, they are among the hardest to develop plans for. They tend not to send invasive capital ships to war-torn systems or capture hostile bases. At most, they build new ones or potentially purchase another company's station. So, along these lines, we (being the story developers) have devised an idea for all three of them, but it's a little tenuous right now.

Trade generates wealth, so as the premier shipping corporations of their respective Houses, they could greatly increase their ease of access to foreign trade by building or purchasing a facility in another House. It would go something like this:

• Republican Shipping could build or purchase one in Bretonia or Liberty
  
• Universal Shipping could build or purchase one in Rheinland or Bretonia
  
• Borderworlds Exports could build or purchase one in Liberty or Rheinland
  

This plan could be visualized as a triangle between Bretonia, Liberty, and Rheinland. The problem is picking which House each corporation sets up shop in, then deciding upon a system, and finally figuring out if they're buying or constructing anew. We already have some ideas in mind, but are interested to hear what the community at large thinks.

Counterargument: multinational corporations might be considered by some as a threat that may infringe upon the sovereignty of the House's system which they have chosen to set up in, potentially diminishing their sense of control over the region in question, despite any beneficial economic implications of allowing it to happen. Further, there could be issues of unlawfuls (or other chased parties, enemies of the state, etc.) who are not rephacked to these facilities possibly using them to dock and evade capture, leading to much gnashing of teeth. Thus, the story planning developers ought to find another way to grant the aforementioned factions a means of progression.

To develop those three factions, I would recommend against affiliation changes of current bases and also against new bases, in order to prevent further complicating the mod and the negative consequences that follow (more work, more drama, more things to be re-balanced when something is changed). What I'd like to see are improvements in the models of old vanilla bases, especially in capital systems, which stagnated for 20+ years while huge bases and settlements popped up in previously unexplored areas. That would also provide eye-candy to impress people with at an early stage of their stay.

The trade prices should be adjusted to make munitions and pharmaceuticals from Liberty to Bretonia, refugees from Bretonia to Liberty and Rheinland, and food or synth paste from Rheinland to Bretonia more profitable (or more profitable compared to other goods) than they are now (although i must admit I havent traded goods in a long time). It appears as if there's too much profit in shipping booze, which some people might find funny, but which isn't immersive considering the dire political situation in some areas of Sirius. The trade routes should lead along the main lanes and past the respective capital planets of the houses.

In general, game play and actual ingame immersion should be prioritized over storyline progression for the sake of storyline progression, whether it's pushed by faction leaders or not.

I was wondering if the dev team is still willing to do these kinds of discussions, because the original idea of having these was a good, even if the specific topic proposed here didn't reap much enthusiasm. How about making another discussion on the topic "Ways to improve general gameplay"?

Way too broad, but yes, engaging with the community is still something we are very much interested in doing. I'm way more open to discussing gameplay related things than story related things generally speaking, because people tend to stonewall a lot less on the gameplay side of the fence. I've just been really, really busy lately. I can try to do something Sunday, just need to pick a topic. Got a few that have been rolling around in my head for awhile now anyway.

CD Slot distribution on ship classes would be a nice topic since everything from LF to battlecruiser has the SAME ability to CD.