To clear things up before I start, I made this topic seperate from the 4.80 bugs thread so that we could discuss it more freely without flooding that thread. Also, I know it has been talked about before but now we (as the Discovery community) are at a junction where a player wipe is starting to seem inevitable. That's not to say that it is, that is still to be determined by the powers that be :0)
I've read a few opinions on the matter, varying from player to player but the general consensus is you guys want the wipe, plus compensation. Now, I have 8 characters, mostly all above level 60 with some very nice setups that took a long time to earn, find or decide on. I'm in the same boat as most of you here... and I'm willing to let it all go. Sure I'll lose 8 characters, but that'll help me focus on the characters I really did want to use.
First of all, there's the horrible lag. When it's intermittent it's not impossible to play normally, but fighting is somewhat problematic. However, yesterday I simply found it unplayable and I'm happy to do whatever it takes to rectify this. Then there's all the other tiny problems with Discovery that can't be changed while players still use their ships. A player wipe will allow Igiss absolute freedom to change Discovery for the better.
So, compensation? 2 million might be fine, it will save us a few hours battling through the lower ranks and get us on our feet. Personally, I don't even think that's necessary. I would love for either the profits on all trade runs lowered or cargo holds on the larger trade ships decreased to level out this mad rush for Large Trains and then Battleships / Cruisers. The Discovery economy is inflated and this is our chance to balance it out.
You do realise badger that your gonna get flamed for suggesting the cargo holds get reduced in size?
Personally I'd rather see the large trading ships lose their abilities to ignore NPC cruise disrupters and shrug off pretty much all NPC attacks (not including the nomads).
That way people would have to either go for high-risk profitable runs, where you've got a 50/50 (or less) chance of making it through the NPCs, or just do RP trade runs between the stations and bases of the 4 houses.
It would also mean escorts would have something to do when escorting traders, other then trying to keep up and trying to dodge the hundred plus cruise disrupters that get lobbed their way by the NPCs.
I agree with Marauder.
I suggest taking the class 9 shields off the large trading vehicles like transports/trains lower it to class 8, maybe even class 7. Maybe leave it on the Armored Transport, it should be a tough nut to crack.
I don't know... just a suggestion...
I think the cargo holds should stay, eventually adding a few transport vehicles of same/similar specs to the Large Train for variety...
As for the player wipe... Badger, you would agree with me that 2 mil is really a small compensation for my 'corporation' with 800+mil in cash and 15 ships (3 of them storages), most of them fully loaded with expensive and/or rare equipment most of the ships above level 65... But a player wipe ok if it's needed I'm saying I'd like a bigger compensation, at least a Large Train and money for first full cargo hold back to Manhattan or Houston.
Again... If I start from Zero, I can buy a large train in some 10 hrs play and be well on my feet doing passenger runs... I want to say - 2mil or 0mil... not that it matters too much.
Nightfall.
I understand a lot of players will feel cheated by small compensation or worse, none at all, but think of it like this- For one day, we'll all be on a level playing field, no-one running stockpiles of hundreds of codenamed weapons or thousands of units of cargo in untouchable Large Trains. A player wipe pretty much favours nobody, so we should all be affected just the same, regardless of whether you've built up 20 characters or just two.
Warning: Rant ahead.
On the issue of trains and my general dislike of them- I like the idea of reducing the shield classes on Large Trains, they need to be more vulnerable. That the first thing anybody's going to do is get their Train back and trade their way back to glory saddens me. Here's a little story for you about my first character on this server. I played it like I'd play on a vanilla server, only it took a lot longer to do the same things (ie: earn enough to buy a Dragon). Regardless I fought on, and eventually earned my first millions by doing loads of missions in Theta.
But I didn't care that it took ages compared to vanilla, it was a challenge. I had great fun blasting up the increased difficulty NPC's and dodging for my life when I ran into hostile Battleships, making pocket-money in deadly missions which sometimes barely covered the repair costs of my fighter. This was what set apart Discovery from everything else for me. In vanilla I could have a ship capable of killing the best ship on the server in over an hour. When I started Discovery, I couldn't even hope to beat a player Battleship without putting weeks into it.
So now that fighter is a neutral trader character, hoarding more money than I could possibly ever need. If I want a brand new vhf character, I can transfer everything I want in no time at all, or do a couple of trade runs and get even more. It's hollow. The time, effort and downright fun I had building that first character is gone, because you can effortlessly trade your way to the same rewards in a fraction of the time.
That's why I want trains (and all large traders in fact) nerfed somehow, there's so much more to Discovery, we all seem to forget.
I've been talking about a player wipe with wolf the other day.
And as we are not sure if the lag is caused by the mod, i told him that we should first make a simulated wipe.
That is, moving the accounts to another folder instead of deleting them. That way, if the wipe does not fix the lag, we can restore the accounts back to original.
I haven't yet talked to Igiss about this matter, he has the last word on this.
As I try to get all my chars to support themselves, usually from scratch (though that depends on what it is), I can understand your reasons for wanting the large trading ship nerfed.
Maybe we should see about removing their cruise engines?
I mean, the transports, trains and liners are usually used in the house systems wheres theres loads of tradelanes.
Why do they need cruise engines?
The one thing thays really gonna annoy me is what can't be replaced, namely the stats on a character.
I've got something like 10,500 total kills on my phantom BS, no idea on how long it's been used, but it's well over the 200 hours mark on my nadesico character.
Oh well, I suppose it's a good way to clear the board and start again with just the characters needed.
It'd also be nice to have the characters I use regularly on the same account, instead of having to switch to get to the others.
Guys, let me explain something.
Part of the lag problem *HAS* to do with the train. we kinda figured this out cause anytime someone logs on with a large train (wheither it be pre 4.80 or not) the server lags like hell. I'm not sure WHAT on the Train causes this.. wheither it be the pods or something else. I don't think Igiss is gonna change any more on the Large Train, so lets not go all ape about it
When someone logs in with a capital ship pre 4.80 (Transport, or whatever), it lags like hell.
I talked to someone who also did a similar upgrade path to what we did (started at 4.78, then 4.79, then finally 4.80) and said he's seeing many of the same problems we did, and because he had like 15 players that play regularly, the other 20 were just show-ups that play every 5weeks, he did a player whipe and the lag disappeared.
Now for compensation.
This is entirely up to us, gentlemen. Please remember that editing a player in Ioncross is a very fickle thing. I do *NOT* want people running up to us begging for $$ so they can go buy their favorite ship again. I've started over on this erver, and it's not quite *THAT* hard to earn your first $2 mil in less than 6 hours. It's pretty easy, kids.
I'm not making any guarantees, nor any final decisions. We'll stimulate a player whipe to see how the server reacts. If it reacts within specifications, then the player whipe will happen.
If it doesn't, it's back to the drawing board. I want to make one thing clear. This is entirely up to us to decide on how to proceed. I understand a lot of us have 5+ characters and something like more than 2 Billion in credits total. This shows how much you game, and I'd be impressed if you have 15 characters and break the credit limit five times over.. but that's not going to change our minds about a player whipe or compensation. It works the same way across the board. I get reset. Korrd gets reset. Angel gets reset. *ALL* Of us.
Compensation is easy. We can reset the starting credits to whatever we deem necessary, and go from there. But please be aware it'll be a temporary solution, and won't last for more than 2, 4 weeks.
Hope this explains a few things more clearer...
Player wipe - no problem if it deals with lag and improves things
Large Train - k, ummm I rarely have the time to play freelancer as much, now some people like spending time trading, others don't. I'm in the don't. I prefer to spend more time in my fighting chars. Now there was an opinion about removing cruise engines and basically making it harder to trade. K, that's one opinion now here's mine, leave the train alone apart from making it affected by the cruise disruptors. Take away cruise, and people will have to spend a lot of time getting from A to B on routes with no tradelanes. I like the fact that I can do a medium length trade route get some cash and be able to support my other chars without having to spend a huge amount of my limited time by flying back and forth between A and B. Granted I can see why you would want it to take a significant amount of time to get a BS...its a BS it should be hard to get. But at the same time, keep in mind that some of us don't have hours of free time everyday.
I think that removing the cruise disruptor wouldnt be the best idea bc then instead of the pirates complaining that they cant get the traders the traders will complain that they cant get anytrading done bc they are too easy prey. As for the wipe well if it needs done then there is nothing we can do as for maybe giving us a good amount of credits to begin with as compensation for a while i think this is a good idea bc like a few other people school means i cant get om as often so for me anyway that would be a good solution.