This thread will mainly be about how the Community feels about Corsairs in general and how the major negative views on us Corsair players have been created from the first place. I also like to bring up issues such as: Fairplay, outnumbering, outgunning and Bounty Hunters attacking Omicron Gamma.
As a Corsair player myself, I feel that its very hard to gain some respect regardless of how much you try to make things fair by asking your allies nicely to not join the fight with gunboats etc. when the enemies are say one bomber and one fighter. Though at the same time those that try to aim for fairplay amongst the Corsairs can't demand other players to do or not do, so in the end its up to the players that essentially fly these capital vessels.
I ask people who read this thread to not judge all Corsair players through actions of few (or possibly many since it seems there are many corsair capital players who disregard fairplay in all forms out there...)
There has been multiple occasions where people have PM'ed me in "OOC" stating how unfair we are for outnumbering/outgunning in such a huge scale. These complaints usually come from Bounty Hunters, but there have been players from other faction groups too. Now that this has been brought up I would also like to mention one thing, that I believe enemies of the Corsairs, especially bounty hunters must learn to accept as truth:
When you are destined to kill all Corsairs inside of Omicron Gamma, expect all of our forces to retaliate. One can't simply as a Bounty Hunter go into the very heart of the Corsair system and think that Corsairs will "cut him so slack" in the name of fairplay. On this issue I can see my allies point to take the enemy down with everything we got. Why should we as Corsairs, attack with two pilots and perhaps wait for them to die, so we can send in another two against the Bounty Hunter in order to preserve fair play? Whilst the Bounty Hunter stacks up his kill count to later only post shamelessly our deaths so he can get himself some cash and probably gaining more self-confidence at the same time. That is just Corsairs hurting themselves to be honest.
I would like to ask few question, since I'm pretty new around here and the general community:
- How did these negative views about Corsairs generally behavior begin? Was there a specific "enemy to the corsair" group spreading their bad experiences or was it through actions of specific Corsair players?
- Why does many assume that all Corsairs are frustrating, annoying, flies only capital ships, have no knowledge about roleplay and etc. all the bad traits of a player basically?
- Any solution to fix these problems?
Before answering these three questions, please read the whole post. Thank you for your time.
first question:
it is tied to the BHG view. as you might have noticed, the way others look upon the corsairs sometimes is very similar to how ppl look upon the BHG. - the BHG is the other faction that suffers from the actions of a few that are projected upon the whole.
in the special case of the corsairs ( in contrast to - lets say the outcasts ) - game mechanice force the BHG to go against the corsairs much more than against the outcasts. - for one, BHG are often forced to go through gamma ( as it was mentioned in numerous threads before - they cannot go through kusari, they can often not go through alaska, going through liberty - bretonia - the tau systems - alpha - nomad systems to get to their destination is outright silly.... which leaves the omicron-gamma route )
cuase they encounter each other so much, they spiral up in "cause this guy did it to me, we do it to them now" ( a dangerous and detrimental behaviour that is still executed in too many times ) - so some BHG outnumber few corsairs, the corsairs are angry, next time, BHG are outnumbered by corsairs, BHG are angry - soon everyone is angry and RP becomes a sideshow. ( in the end, most ppl are competitive and want to win. - how many players do you really see retreat from a battle to safe their precious RP life? - even serious RPers don t do it much )
second question:
look question 1. - there are as many bad corsairs as there are BHG, blood dragons, keepers, lib navy, gaians, phantoms, LPI, KNF, RM etc. - but after encountering the other more often, its always the negative encounters that are remembered - and those encounters will determine how you encounter the other one in the future. - it happens to everyone.
third question:
one solution "might" have been to offer an altenate route for BHGs to reach delta - but the ones that are actually only "passing through" are rather few. - respect of others RP can be learned, but its a trait you need to possess in RL - if you have no concenpt of "what you don t want others to do to you, you won t do to them" - there is little to learn.
once people "feel" badly treated in terms of fairplay, they will strike back. - and like many bullies in school, they will most certainly NOT choose the original cause for their anger, but choose a weaker target. - what comes around, goes around.
postscript:
abouut "when you invade our very homesystem, we strike with everything we got" - i suggest you read the current liberty navy threads. ( the one about how the navy dares to go after any attacker in overwhelming force )
cause - if a BHG flies into gamma in a hammerhead or a bomber, and he is greeted by 3 cruisers. - he will come back with 3 battlecruisers next time. - only .... next time, he ll only meet 2 corsair fighters.
I guess the reason why bounty hunters are annoyed about Gamma and fairplay is, that they see themselves as changing the face of the Bounty Hunters Guild. In the past, Gamma was constantly raided by bounty hunter capital ships, who were hunting anyone and anything just for the kill messages. These bounty hunters were met by either: a) overwhelming force, capital ships, bombers, fighters, or b)an inadequete force which quickly gets pulverised.
So now, when these bounty hunters in fighters/bombers go into Omicron Gamma, they think they are doing the right thing: sending fighters, a manageable force. However, corsairs still meet them with fleets of capital ships, just like in the old days.
Note: that was generalised and does not represent the actions and attitudes of all corsairs/bounty hunters. Just some who I have noticed and don't wish to name.
I also find many bad (in terms of our server) players gravitate to the Corsair faction. Pvpers from non-roleplaying servers, pirates who just want to grief players, and pvp clans all seem to get corsair ships, weapons and/or IDs. I believe it's related to Vanilla freelancer, where the Eagle was in Omicron Theta, and Gamma was a common meeting place / nomad hunting location. It is also related to the effectiveness of corsair equipment, and their free-ranging ID. Their equipment is quite good - their capital ships and bombers are very good- and they have a large range of enemies to use it upon. They have enemies all over Sirius, and can go many locations (apart from the Taus and Liberty, it seems).
Edit: I agree with Jinx's points.
in terms of equipment and ships - the outcasts are much better than the corsairs ( and they got as many pvpers ) - but when it comes to "defending their home" - the outcasts have less problems.
gamma is frequented by passers by and attacking forces - gamma is a system that is used to get somewhere apart from gamma.
alpha however is a dead end system ( sort of at least ) - you don t get ppl that go there without the intention to really go to alpha.
for BHGs its less attractive cause its far off ( compared to gamma )
from this point of view - corsairs are attackers AND defenders. - outcasts are primarily attackers. BHG are attackerrs ( cause they got nothing to defend )
in terms of piracy - i don t really know how much the outcasts do it. - but the corsiars are quite active all around the sigmas / omegas / omicrons ( sometimes ) - which in turn can lead to more interaction = more confrontation.
only what I can say against sairs (not all of course) is their shipchoice... they have whole shipline except SHF but too much of them (for example in OPG more than 1/2 members) use nonsair ships... mostly ravens talons.
my question is why? ftpwn?
I suppose there's a few issues I've witnessed coming out of Crete. Nomad turrets on gunboats, Raven Talons coming out the ears and other such mundane issues in regards to lol equipment setups. But that's not terribly unique to their faction specifically.
I suppose my disdain comes from the general atmosphere one finds in Gamma. When I was operating my Corsair pirate, easily my favorite character ever, there was nothing that I would want to do less than linger within three systems of a Corsair base, let alone Crete orbit. The lol atmosphere was absolutely appalling without any real effort made to stifle the flow. From indie to official faction member the relentless outpouring of ooc blather was enough to make the teeth hurt.
But that's why I refer to Gamma as New Jersey. It's like New York but smaller and dirtier.
Truth be told my wank in that regard is in poor form, if you're not willing to work towards being part of the solution griping about the problem is about as useful as wax shoes, but that ranks towards the top of my 'Sair complaints.
First off, in my experience it seems to be the Corsairs who did all the complaining in the past and not the BHG. Every time some nubs launched one of their "raids" on Gamma in a fleet of lollercruisers, the forums got a new thread. I wouldn't call that "complaining" though, more of raising a concern. It was making the game a real pain for people.
While I see the RP sense behind giving anyone entering your home system a solid thrashing, I would make every effort to make sure anyone doing so got, well, if not an equal fight, then at least a chance to RP and odds that might be hard rather than impossible. I know this isn't always possible to achieve. But when someone comes in a fighter, don't send a GB after him straight away.
I've been in one fight in Gamma in a bomber, and that was when I was caught trying to leave. I got, and to be fair, expected a trouncing. I've been outnumbered and outgunned equally massively in Theta, Kappa and Delta as well as the Omegas.
Frankly I <strike>think</strike> know some Corsairs have it in for many of us, possibly on a personal level. Sadly these chaps are not of the official factions, so there aren't feedback threads where I can tell them what I think of their manner of playing. Plus their English isn't the best.
My reasons for being wary of Corsairs I meet in game are down to experience. I know well enough to not treat all Corsairs equally. But it's hard to remain gregarious when you experience
1) six to one odds
2) RP being "enaging"
3) being told "leave the system" which comes to two words more than was said by the entire gang before the fight.
4) getting attacked by a dreadnought when you are in a GB
5) when above fool realises it is a trap and he gets killed by three smaller ships, to then be accused ooc in system chat of intentional ramming with threats of admin action
6) being accused of never fighting fair having killed a opponent in a three versus two bomber/fighter fight
7) when you try to stop a fight by saying "Stop" so you can offer an outnumbered opponent a chance to withdraw, to have the fool ignore the request to stop
8) odds of, I'm not kidding, eight to one - in a Manta
None of these were in Gamma. This is all in the last week of playing in the Omicrons and Omegas. I was reluctant allowing our faction to start playing there, and I can see why now. But these are the actions of players, not Corsairs. Players make this game what it is.
Quote:When you are destined to kill all Corsairs inside of Omicron Gamma, expect all of our forces to retaliate. One can't simply as a Bounty Hunter go into the very heart of the Corsair system and think that Corsairs will "cut him so slack" in the name of fairplay. On this issue I can see my allies point to take the enemy down with everything we got. Why should we as Corsairs, attack with two pilots and perhaps wait for them to die, so we can send in another two against the Bounty Hunter in order to preserve fair play? Whilst the Bounty Hunter stacks up his kill count to later only post shamelessly our deaths so he can get himself some cash and probably gaining more self-confidence at the same time. That is just Corsairs hurting themselves to be honest.
If I may direct your attention to New York, or any "capital" of a House for that matter. I try to make things as even as possible in a fight, but the House should always have the advantage. eg: Liberty would have the slight advantage over Outcasts in Liberty territory, Corsairs would have the slight advantage in Omicron Gamma etc. However, this doesn't mean that a Corsair Dreadnought, Cruiser and bomber should chase one little Bounty Hunter fight in Gamma *Reminisces*.
Why always corsairs ?!?
Did you ever try to rush alpha with your hunters ? (I suppose you know the Core got a bounty on them too)
Personally, I did. And the results aren't better.
If you find alpha with no battlecaps (destroyers and bigger) in a complete hour for more than 4 people in space, let me know cause I NEVER saw it.
Well, what it apply to corsairs apply to outcasts as well.
Quote:However, this doesn't mean that a Corsair Dreadnought, Cruiser and bomber should chase one little Bounty Hunter fight in Gamma *Reminisces*.
Last time we did that mistake, that was against a horde of CAU mk 8 + 6 missile turret laggy gunships... Don't mind it will be reiterated. Even me having an hunter, I expect to get the dreadnoughts on my tail.
If you attack the corsair home system, prepare to get a huge fleet on you.
Now some tips : stay in the clouds (you will get supports from the npcs) and try to make some groups.
Aye, Grimly, but the thread is about Corsairs and is started by a Corsair player. He asks these questions:
- How did these negative views about Corsairs generally behavior begin? Was there a specific "enemy to the corsair" group spreading their bad experiences or was it through actions of specific Corsair players?
Experience, which is then spread by word of mouth, and is eventually exaggerated and finally generalised to apply to all Corsairs.
- Why does many assume that all Corsairs are frustrating, annoying, flies only capital ships, have no knowledge about roleplay and etc. all the bad traits of a player basically?
There's a difference between an "assumption" and a "opinion". An assumption is a pretty silly way to think about things. Opinions tend to be absed on experience.
Because some of them, imho, are bad players. Some. Not all. Some. That's true of any faction. Except the BPA obviously. Go Bretonia!
- Any solution to fix these problems?
Draw attention to what you think is bad play in the hope that others share your opinion and may try to play the way you think they should. Set a good example. Tell nubtards to stop being nubtards. Be direct.
Plainly put, the Outcasts don't generally have this reputation, mainly because the BHG are forced to fight Corsairs more often. All IDs are open to abuse.