Discovery Gaming Community

Quote:1. The Faction must be around for a minimum of 3 months, as an Unofficial Faction, before they can apply for Officialdom.

What does "must be around" mean? The players need to have played with that ID? Have been added to the tracker? Posted an unofficial faction write up? Actually played for how many hours on that tag during those 3 months?

Why make it 3 months unofficial then 3 months after application? Why not 1 month then 1 month, or 2 then 2?

I does look like you're just trying to make it more difficult. As in... you want people to try to make official factions less. Do we REALLY need that?

Why don't you give people better advice for making official faction instead? Like a code of conduct for members and leaders of the faction. Like outlines of what you want to see, and what you don't want to see.

I have the feeling this post will again be brushed off as "oh look karlotta wants to complain and complain and complain and complain".

No. I think answering these questions... like... really answering them... not some strawman version of them... will really help you, and discoveryGC.

EDIT: Also the whole write up of the linked post about faction creation is absolutely horribly written. It would really help everyone if someone... you dont even have to use what I already did here... made a 1 hour effort to make it more compact and understandable.

Quote: Why don't you give people better advice for making official faction instead? Like a code of conduct for members and leaders of the faction. Like outlines of what you want to see, and what you don't want to see.

That
Edit: Seriously, discovery have too long story with bunch of unwritten rules and expectations, too much links on mythical common sense, and terrible lack of guidelines for this.

nice post

(02-09-2020, 10:19 PM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]So, you now have to wait a total of 6 month to be official?

Lmao, best not even try to have a conversation with GMs, they just start ***** out rules a few hours after.

(02-09-2020, 10:57 PM)Backo Wrote: [ -> ]Boy am I glad I filed that GCA| officialdom request in time. (^:

EDIT: I do think this is a bad change though. It would demotivate people even further to bother going for officialdom.

(02-09-2020, 11:07 PM)Typrop Wrote: [ -> ]This more or less reads like an attempt to institute a bureaucratic barrier for faction officialdom requests simply so they don't have to be processed as often, in an environment where (comparitively) few factions are made. Six months is definitely too long, and the old system was more or less fine as-is.

I sometimes had a question about how fractions, being no one and not showing themselves in the game, have the right to try to become official almost immediately after their creation.

Seriously, one gets the impression that the fractions have become bargaining chips. 500 million is not such a huge amount, so everyone who is ready to trade 2 days at a maximum already has this money (namely, for this period it is easy to collect this amount). And when GMs do not affect the economy, but update the rules, the creators of the official factions are outraged about how everything is unfair and wrong.

That is, you refuse to make sure for 6 months that someone really needs your fraction, that it makes sense, that it is interesting to people. You are ready send to hell any preparation and any work on errors in exchange for applying for official status in the very first days without making sure that you have any sense. At the same time, you have neither the composition, nor the backbone that you could create online in the long run, nor just the final RP concept of your fraction. You are ready to give up self-development in exchange for the fact that you have 500 million.

I think that this change of rules can correct this situation by equating the official status as something to which we should strive, and not what we can buy.

(02-10-2020, 03:36 AM)Liberty.In Wrote: [ -> ]I sometimes had a question about how fractions, being no one and not showing themselves in the game, have the right to try to become official almost immediately after their creation.

They don't have the 'right' to become an official faction, they have the 'option' to put themselves into a trial to become one.
They don't just throw 500mil down and become official, just go ahead and look at the archive list and you can see, a graveyard of rejections.
You had the option to put yourself into a trial period, almost immediately.

(02-10-2020, 03:36 AM)Liberty.In Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously, one gets the impression that the fractions have become bargaining chips. 500 million is not such a huge amount, so everyone who is ready to trade 2 days at a maximum already has this money (namely, for this period it is easy to collect this amount). And when GMs do not affect the economy, but update the rules, the creators of the official factions are outraged about how everything is unfair and wrong.

Firstly, it would take about 3-5 hours to make 500mil if you were dedicated enough. But that's just a side-track.
Secondly, not everything the GMs do will be perfect, nor will it be adequate. The last few things I can remember causing a stirr is the Transport engagement change, which in itself forces certain role-play, and the rejection of MR Officialdom which has recently being necro'd.
And perhaps the OC ID change without giving anyone notice, but that seems more of an oversight.

(02-10-2020, 03:36 AM)Liberty.In Wrote: [ -> ]That is, you refuse to make sure for 6 months that someone really needs your fraction, that it makes sense, that it is interesting to people. You are ready send to hell any preparation and work on errors in exchange for applying for official status in the very first days without making sure that you have any sense. At the same time, you have neither the composition, nor the backbone that you could create online in the long run, nor just the final RP concept of your fraction. You are ready to give up self-development in exchange for the fact that you have 500 million.

Firstly, no one really needs any faction. To think like that, you're not completely understanding that this is a hobby and not a job. Factions are groups with an aim, they're not some mechanism in the Discovery machine used to churn out log time.

Secondly, if the faction is interesting, it will get three or more people. Enough to become official by the rules.

Thirdly, I worked on the background and lore for the Imp-Co about a week or more in advanced before I posted the info page. I'd presume the GMs take a look at new unofficial faction posts when they pop up and would be able to understand, even from a mere glance, the amount of effort gone into the creation of something. Further reading and they will discover its quality.

Fourthly, I assume you're referring to player-base, will-power and developed lore for "you have neither the composition, nor the backbone that you could create online in the long run, nor just the final RP concept of your fraction".
With this, you can easily tell and understand from a glance at two things. Firstly, a factions activity both in game and on the forums. And in regards to their activity on the forums, what there lore is and how developed it is. Most of this information you can gauge very quickly. And there is a trial period for it.

(02-10-2020, 03:36 AM)Liberty.In Wrote: [ -> ]I think that this change of rules can correct this situation by equating the official status as something to which we should strive, and not what we can buy.

The 'buying' is wholeheartedly one of the least egregious things about it.

I think that this change of rules... equate the official status as something to which we should strive...

Spot on!

SSDD - Same Stuff, Different DevMins

If you really only want the majority of the player base to be fodder, it would be better to just flat out say so.

(02-10-2020, 03:36 AM)Liberty.In Wrote: [ -> ]I sometimes had a question about how fractions, being no one and not showing themselves in the game, have the right to try to become official almost immediately after their creation.

Seriously, one gets the impression that the fractions have become bargaining chips. 500 million is not such a huge amount, so everyone who is ready to trade 2 days at a maximum already has this money (namely, for this period it is easy to collect this amount). And when GMs do not affect the economy, but update the rules, the creators of the official factions are outraged about how everything is unfair and wrong.

That is, you refuse to make sure for 6 months that someone really needs your fraction, that it makes sense, that it is interesting to people. You are ready send to hell any preparation and any work on errors in exchange for applying for official status in the very first days without making sure that you have any sense. At the same time, you have neither the composition, nor the backbone that you could create online in the long run, nor just the final RP concept of your fraction. You are ready to give up self-development in exchange for the fact that you have 500 million.

I think that this change of rules can correct this situation by equating the official status as something to which we should strive, and not what we can buy.

In short, being someone that doesn't lead official factions, I simply see this as an artificial time barrier in a game where certain groups simply don't have factions, (Cryer, Union Corse), and existing official factions are essentially activity farms. Consider this akin to heightened, almost arbitrary FDA standards. Lots of small restaurants come up, and they both have to compete with existing chains, coupled with strict regulations that can impose pretty heft monetary concerns on said restaurants. Things like ensuring that shelves are at least six inches above-ground, etc.

Eventually, they go out of business in the next two years, while the larger chains seem to do almost nothing. Sure, the quality of the larger chains' food has gone down, but it doesn't matter, because they're the only people you can really buy from anymore. Just like how certain official factions are those chains, and how this is comparable to increased regulations. It's more arbitrary than anything in an environment that needs either a good change-out of existing factions, or new ones to be cropping up. Definitely, I can understand the intent behind officialdom being something to strive for, but at the same time, you don't make something strive-worthy by appending a mostly pointless time gap.

(02-10-2020, 04:02 AM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]They don't have the 'right' to become an official faction, they have the 'option' to put themselves into a trial to become one.

They are given this option too early.

(02-10-2020, 04:02 AM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]They don't just throw 500mil down and become official, just go ahead and look at the archive list and you can see, a graveyard of rejections.
You had the option to put yourself into a trial period, almost immediately.

How does this change all of the above?

(02-10-2020, 04:02 AM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]Firstly, it would take about 3-5 hours to make 500mil if you were dedicated enough. But that's just a side-track.

How does this change all of the above? (x2)

(02-10-2020, 04:02 AM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]Firstly, no one really needs any faction. To think like that, you're not completely understanding that this is a hobby and not a job.

How does this change all of the above? (x3)
I will explain what I mean: the creation and development of the faction must be approached seriously. Even if this is a hobby, then this hobby should be of high quality.

Official status is a title, an achievement. This is, damn it, an occasion for all players to follow you and take an example from you. People, putting the tag of the official faction on their ship, shoult be proud of it.

(02-10-2020, 04:02 AM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]Secondly, not everything the GMs do will be perfect, nor will it be adequate. The last few things I can remember causing a stirr is the Transport engagement change, which in itself forces certain role-play, and the rejection of MR Officialdom which has recently being necro'd.
And perhaps the OC ID change without giving anyone notice, but that seems more of an oversight.

Secondly, if the faction is interesting, it will get three or more people. Enough to become official by the rules.

Here I agree with you.

(02-10-2020, 04:02 AM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]Thirdly, I worked on the background and lore for the Imp-Co about a week or more in advanced before I posted the info page.

I did EOS as a faction for about a month, probably. I mean the background, S.E.I.N. and all the rest. I had to re-read the concept of The Council a dozen times in forums, on Wiki and DSCore.

(02-10-2020, 04:02 AM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]Fourthly, I assume you're referring to player-base, will-power and developed lore for "you have neither the composition, nor the backbone that you could create online in the long run, nor just the final RP concept of your fraction".

No, I mean the composition that went along with you creating the faction, its development, was able to attach to you and understand what will follow you even into the hell.

(02-10-2020, 04:02 AM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]The 'buying' is wholeheartedly one of the least egregious things about it.

But still this is happening.

(02-10-2020, 04:29 AM)Liberty.In Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-10-2020, 04:02 AM)The Only Hokan Wrote: [ -> ]Firstly, no one really needs any faction. To think like that, you're not completely understanding that this is a hobby and not a job.

How does this change all of the above? (x3)
I will explain what I mean: the creation and development of the faction must be approached seriously. Even if this is a hobby, then this hobby should be of high quality.

If this is a hobby, it by definition is not supposed to be of high quality. People playing here do not owe anything to anyone. The community too rigorous on "quality" factions is already infamous enough for discussing how "bad" new factions are solely because of their not advanced bbcode or anything else. Quite often such factions are made by newcomers which are immediately put off by such a harsh elitist treatment of the others. In addition, "quality" is a relative concept and what is a "no-go piece of garbage" for one person can be "neat doable simple concept" for the others.

(02-10-2020, 04:29 AM)Liberty.In Wrote: [ -> ]Official status is a title, an achievement. This is, damn it, an occasion for all players to follow you and take an example from you. People, putting the tag of the official faction on their ship, shoult be proud of it.

As of now, the status of OF doesn't give any real benefits to be proud of. Unless you go for a specific RP that transcends the basic faction lore (like revolution faction, or completely new faction) - you don't really need OF to enjoy playing the game. Many vets here have said it before, and I agree with them - that staying unofficial is the way to go as it is burden- and drama-free play, where you can easily change the faction concept without any requests, you can RP whatever you want within the scope of the rules without caring about the backlash, etc. Look at GMS - they are constantly in top activity and they have never been official, nor even applied for OF. Ofc, they are traders and are supposed to have high activity - but their activity is even higher than of OF trading factions which just proves that perks of OF are not really beneficial. As for "pride" - I absolutely have no idea how being OF makes you proud, unless you belong to those elitist who consider unofficial factions "trash".