I had an interesting conversation today and am pleased to report that it all happened in RP during a conversation with a group of HS ships, and their leader in particular (the something or other Belle)
It seems that they have staked out the Tau's as their Zone of Influence, as a Freelancer group working to stop smuggling.
Although the Freelancer ID that the group has equipped bars piracy, they claim that since they are attempting to claim blanket bounties on smugglers and Outcasts, that they can attack traders carrying Cardamine.
Furthermore, their ID allows them to attack unlawfuls, which a smuggler certainly qualifies as.
This argument surprised me, and quite frankly, I'm inclined to believe that it is actually correct.
This causes me to ask, however, why the Vigilante ID is at all necessary.
What do you all say?
It is quiet simple. As a Vigilante, you can blow up, Criminals, demant cargo from smugglers and hunt slavers wherever and whenever you want. But you can claim no bounties.
As a Freelancer, you can fulfill lawful and unlawful bounty contracts. Who says a bounty contract has to be about blowing someone up?
Take the ZAS for example: They demand that the Hunter/Freelancer demands the cargo to be dropped or delivered to the next lawful base first and only if the slaver doesn't comply, they are weapons free. They can do this, because the contract demands it.
If they demand your cargo and their contract demands this and they claim the bounty afterwards everything is fine.
If there is no contract, they can just shoot you, but not demand your cargo.
Hey there, I'm the person you are refering to, on the character HS.|Ender-Memphis.Belle. I'm curious as to the answer as well. I thought that what we were doing was fine due to the fact that we had been contracted to intercept and disrupt smuggling and slaving in the Tau's, but I hadn't considered the ID issue. It's not our Zone of Influence, per se, but a place where we have had multiple parties contract to us. The arguement of bounties and smugglers being unlawful stemmed from the chat we had, when you brought up IDs. Either way, it was a lot of fun.
' Wrote:It is quiet simple. As a Vigilante, you can blow up, Criminals, demant cargo from smugglers and hunt slavers wherever and whenever you want. But you can claim no bounties.
As a Freelancer, you can fulfill lawful and unlawful bounty contracts. Who says a bounty contract has to be about blowing someone up?
Take the ZAS for example: They demand that the Hunter/Freelancer demands the cargo to be dropped or delivered to the next lawful base first and only if the slaver doesn't comply, they are weapons free. They can do this, because the contract demands it.
If they demand your cargo and their contract demands this and they claim the bounty afterwards everything is fine.
If there is no contract, they can just shoot you, but not demand your cargo.
Thanks for the response! So is there anything that a Vigilante can do that a Freelancer can't, since the Freelancer ID allows them to hunt unlawfuls across Sirius?
Edit for Ender: Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you, but it does seem a bit complicated.
Vigilantes can blow up any unlawful or any smuggler who refuses to drop contraband.
Freelancers can do the same IF there's a proper bounty active in that system (Liberty bounties wouldn't apply in Coronado, for example, but a Corsair bounty against all cardamine smugglers anywhere would).
Someone with a Smuggler ID is not unlawful unless they're carrying contraband at the time, and it is illegal to place bounties on everyone with a Smuggler ID. They can be distrusted, but must be considered law-abiding citizens unless they're caught doing bad things or have been in the past (in which case there may be a specific bounty on that smuggler).
' Wrote:Thanks for the response! So is there anything that a Vigilante can do that a Freelancer can't, since the Freelancer ID allows them to hunt unlawfuls across Sirius?
I have no experience with Vigilantes, but i could imagine the following:
The Vigilante can demand your cargo if he doens't like it, he can blow you up, just because he doesn't like your ship/your ID and he does is for fun, because he doesn't get paid for it anyways, that is what makes him so dangerous for criminals.
The Freelancer can blow you up too if he likes, but if there is no bouty on you or your cargo (or they desn't know about it) most of them will simply ignore you, no money, no pewpew.
Summarized, the Vigilante is far mor dangerous and agressive than a freelancer, while the FL is just after the money, maybe you have even the possibility to buy you out?
' Wrote:Vigilantes can blow up any unlawful or any smuggler who refuses to drop contraband.
Freelancers can do the same IF there's a proper bounty active in that system (Liberty bounties wouldn't apply in Coronado, for example, but a Corsair bounty against all cardamine smugglers anywhere would).
Someone with a Smuggler ID is not unlawful unless they're carrying contraband at the time, and it is illegal to place bounties on everyone with a Smuggler ID. They can be distrusted, but must be considered law-abiding citizens unless they're caught doing bad things or have been in the past (in which case there may be a specific bounty on that smuggler).
Ah, alright, that's a good clarification, and it meshes with the way we had been operating. We were only stopping people that we scanned and were carrying the specific contraband we had been contracted to disrupt in the Tau's.
And exactly what is that Contract? Is it something you can prove on the forums with either screen shots of the contract being agreed upon, or is it something here on the forums that others can look at to be sure that your simply not making up an excuse to go PvP without proper RP. See where I am going with this? You say you have a contract, but unles you can prove it, you run the risk of some one screaming for a sanction if they don't like what you do to them.
' Wrote:And exactly what is that Contract? Is it something you can prove on the forums with either screen shots of the contract being agreed upon, or is it something here on the forums that others can look at to be sure that your simply not making up an excuse to go PvP without proper RP. See where I am going with this? You say you have a contract, but unles you can prove it, you run the risk of some one screaming for a sanction if they don't like what you do to them.
Pretty much, yeah. If you kill someone to collect on a bounty, you need proof that there is actually such a bounty.
I'd like to push this topic up as it has affected me as well.
The problem I have is not really that the Freelancers do it but rather that I do not know which Freelancers do it and whether they really were recruited to do this.
I discussed it with one of their group, RP and later OORP over PMs as we didn't really get to a conclusion. He (they) say that they have a contract but choose to not make it public.
My question is whether such a contract has to be made available to everyone on the forums (like the "normal" bounties) or whether it's ok for it to be secret (which would indeed make sense RP-wise).
The main problem is that everyone can claim that they are working under a contract and with it excuse unlawful behaviour. (After all, demanding traders to drop their cargo is unlawful behaviour, even if the cargo is contraband. - In the independent systems like the Border Worlds there is no contraband.)
That's the way I see it.