This (very long - sorry!) post is all about the way we RP Combat. It contains some suggestions for how we could improve things to make things a lot more realistic and fun for more players.
My own viewpoint is as a player who loves to roleplay(RP), who is a below-average player-versus-player (PVP) combat jockey who would like to improve in both.
My main problem is that I just cannot maintain the suspension of disbelief necessary to operate effectively here. What I mean by that is the way things are done is simply not believable. When taking part in them I lose all the enjoyment, immersion and value of the game experience. To illustrate what I mean by that feeling: Say you are watching a seriously good film/tv episode and you are really absorbed in the story, the plot, the action and suddenly, at the bottom of the screen the fecking TV channel pops up a sign saying
"Next programme is The Simpsons". By this simple interruption, you are immediately transported from that place of enjoyment back to the mundane world. The magic is gone. Ruined by the morons that decide your need to be told what is on next is more important than what you are watching right now.
In Discovery, this also happens.
Example 1: A mixed bag of Gaian vessels (Gunboat and some Bombers and Fighters) enter Leeds space. They are there to cause trouble. They stand away from Leeds planet and wait for the BAF/MM/Indy Bret forces to arrive. A lone BAF officer begins talking to them to buy time for reinforcements. A couple of BAF pilots arrive and one or two others. Then there is a single combat between the BAF senior officer and a Gaian, with both sides just watching. This strikes me as being utterly ridiculous.
Example 2: A single KNF fighter is spotted in Tau 31. Turns out he is an Ace pilot. Groups of BAF fighters go there to take him on, which they do one by one. He shoots them all down in turn, about 8 in all. This is patently absurd.
There is no military doctrine which says that opponents must be fought fairly. In fact it is considered stupid. If you have the advantage of numbers and/or firepower then you USE it. We appear to be using the combat system of World War I fighter pilots, of gentlemanly jousts, which lasted only a few weeks and then was dropped. As we are, the system favours individual elite pilots, NOT the vast majority of ordinary players.
Example 3: A mercenary decides to accept a KNF contract on BAF personnel. He sees a group of BAF in a system, jumps in and challenges the BAF leader, an Admiral, to a fight, so he can collect the bounty. Do you seriously think that a) a real-life Admiral would fight a joust with a mercenary who was trying to bounty him? b) the troops under his command wouldn't swarm the merc and blow him to bits?
This is NOT role play, because it is so stupid that it could not happen in any realistic scenario. It is just play. A set of actions that control the way this computer game is played. In realising this, the sense of immersion in the game is lost. I can no longer suspend my disbelief. I am no longer flying my ship, I am looking at my computer screen and preparing to log off.
Please note that all these examples are real. They have happened. I was there.
What I propose we try, is that we revise some of the RP behaviour. Of course, arranged combats/battles/RP events remain controlled separately. What I mean is in general play:-
House military units must train to fight and fly in groups. If a single attacker decides to attack a House military vessel, he must expect to be attacked by every other military unit around. Why not? Surely only an idiot would charge in to attack a flight of military ships alone?
Unlawful ships are free to fight as they wish. Any solo lawful pilot attacking a bunch of them is also being suicidal. A single BAF pilot will be blasted by the attacking Gaian fleet if he gets in their way.
I believe these simple changes will benefit us all.
A solo KNF fighter flying around Leeds, if spotted by a wing of BAF fighters, will be hounded and destroyed by them, not taken on in single combat by each in turn.
A single BAF officer will have to withdraw from Leeds, calling for reinforcements and warning civilian traffic, in the face of a group of Gaian vessels coming in to attack and destroy all they can see. Of course, he could
gallantly go in and make an attack on them but he must expect to be pulverised! Proper, realistic military behaviour would be to back off and observe while waiting for reinforcements, then return when the odds are in
your favour.
Two or more ace merc fighters could go in to claim bounties on House military ships by joining up to take on a wing of military fighters. Kudos for 2 v 4, 2 v 6, 2 v 8 victories could be earned. Thus we can all still see who the top fighters are without the drudgery of endless 1v1 fights that we get bored watching and then, when our turn comes, go in to fight knowing we are outclassed. The net effect of the current system is that the elite pilots get more RP AND more PVP than the rest of us.
Any pirate wanting to operate alone will have to avoid heavily policed systems and go fishing further afield. If he is in, say New York, he must expect to be 'ganked' by Navy/Police ships. Such systems could only
realistically be attacked by a fleet of Pirate ships.
If the Navy of any House turn up in a system, the unlawfuls need to seriously consider leaving, or ganging up if they want to fight. Military forces need to be as uncompromising as terrorist ones if we want our players to be able to suspend their disbelief long enough to really enjoy the Discovery experience.
So, could we try this?
I await your thoughts...
Quote:This is NOT role play, because it is so stupid that it could not happen in any realistic scenario. It is just play. A set of actions that control the way this computer game is played. In realising this, the sense of immersion in the game is lost. I can no longer suspend my disbelief. I am no longer flying my ship, I am looking at my computer screen and preparing to log off.
Just because it isn't your idea of what Role Play is...
Doesn't mean it isn't roleplay.
Or, as happened just a few hours ago, a single Hacker GS (Which was doing absolutely nothing illegal, by the way, merely flying around talking with people about deep and profound-type-things) was beset by a gunboat, about five or six fighters, a bomber, a few more fighters, and a cruiser that pulled off at some point or another.
It turned into a running fight through the Badlands (from the Manhat-Fort Bush lane, to Norfolk, down the lane, into the Badlands near West Point, and then back to Buffalo-ish) during which the gunship swatted down three fighters, evaded the cruiser, chased off the bomber, was joined by a Sabre, and then proceeded to dismantle a few more ships.
It was bloody fun, and it could have easily gone extremely badly for the gunship.
I agree with you SLIGHTLY.
I feel like a bit of an idiot when ive got a couple of navy ships with me, one of them engaging a lone rogue, then I have to sit there 'waiting my turn'. It doesn't feel very RP even though I try to sprinkle some around here and there in chat. It doesn't help much. I feel very unimersed playing disco admitidly:(
Also, PVP can get quite repetitive, just the same ol' 1 on 1. I want to try 2 on 6, 5 on 3...that would make pvp way funner.
The trick here is to send enough forces that you remain superior whilst not using so many that it becomes overkill.
If its 2 or 3 on one and you're sitting there waiting your turn, do something else like a patrol or something. There's bound to be other things to do, especially in Liberty.
Umm...yeah, so next time when I'm in Leeds, alone (because there simply are no gaians online) should I expect to be BAF swarmed? Like 6 BAF ships, one of them probably Kent or something ridiculous like that, then I bet some MMs would join...oh yes, I can imagine the fun of it.
Quote:I await your thoughts...
See below.
Quote:There is no military doctrine which says that opponents must be fought fairly.
No, but for the sake of fun, we should fight fairly. If everyone would share your opinion, I'd be killed all the time by swarm of OCs, GC, Dragons or BAF. Of course, if you know that the enemy is like...totally better then you and your mates, you can swarm him/her and he will have fun as well because he'll kill you all anyway. Also, keep in mind that this is
not a simulator, it's basically arcade shooter. You can't compare Freelancer to real military.
Quote:This is NOT role play, because it is so stupid that it could not happen in any realistic scenario.
See above. Freelancer is far from the rumored real life.
Quote:Do you seriously think that a) an <strike>real-life</strike> Admiral would fight a joust with a mercenary who was trying to bounty him? b) the troops under his command wouldn't swarm the merc and blow him to bits?
Fix'd to make it easier.
I think that if the admiral is inRP like totally proud and arrogant, why not to accept the challenge? Show his subordinates how the real fight looks like!
Additionally, in Kusari, we have our
honor and no true samurai would intentionally want to overpower the enemy!
Quote:If a single attacker decides to attack a House military vessel, he must expect to be attacked by every other military unit around. Why not? Surely only an idiot would charge in to attack a flight of military ships alone?
That is like totally true.
IF the outlaw is the aggressor.
Quote:A single BAF pilot will be blasted by the attacking Gaian fleet if he gets in their way.
Let me know if you meet one. And if I was in that fleet you be damn sure they wouldn't gank you to death.
Quote:A solo KNF fighter flying around Leeds, if spotted by a wing of BAF fighters, will be hounded and destroyed by them, not taken on in single combat by each in turn.
That is something different, KNF and BAF are at war and Kusari is already in Leeds. No nice behavior from BAF side expected for a KNF creature then.
Quote:A single BAF officer will have to withdraw from Leeds, calling for reinforcements and warning civilian traffic, in the face of a group of Gaian vessels coming in to attack and destroy all they can see. Of course, he could gallantly go in and make an attack (....)
I don't know anyone who'd do that, but if he/she did that, he might (inRP) want to have a promotion or something for a heroic victory.
Quote:Two or more ace merc fighters could go in to claim bounties on House military ships by joining up to take on a wing of military fighters.
See above. If you know the fight would be like totally hopeless, it's perfectly OK to outnumber the enemy.
Quote:I await your thoughts...
See above.
Edit: Dab I see you there, silently posting. Don't kill me, I didn't mean to be evil:P
This is another case of fairplay over roleplay.
a lot of us dont enjoy the aspect of trying to take on odds of one on three or more.
Personally, i enjoy it, provided i'm in an agile ship.
Sticking to the trend of using BAF as an example..
If we used your version of 'how we should act' (which we'll judge, thank you), every single enemy of ours would end up fighting ten Templars. Not a very fun thing for two Gaians, is it? How long do you think those two Gaians are gonna play Gaians if they get 5:1 odds everytime? Not very long. What happens? They stop playing, we have less people to RP with and fight. What happens? We get less active as there is less to do. What happens? No more BAF. No more Gaians. No more anybody except a few silent traders going on about their business. Eventually someone notices the lack of BAF and goes out to pirate those traders. Others tag along over time. Eventually they get out of control and the BAF start logging on swarms again to take them out. Fights ensue, pirates die to overwhelming numbers. Pirates stop pirating. BAF stop having pirates to kill, BAF stops flying. Rinse and repeat.
Do you want us to go through that cycle? No? Then we can't just shoot everyone we encounter with everything we have everytime.
Now I agree with some of your things. 8 BAF and a single KNF, fighting one and one everytime until he takes them out is stupid. If he's a skilled opponent, BAF should use enough ships to keep the advantage. But not all 8 of them. It should be challenging for that KNF to win, as his enemy has numerical superiority.. But it shouldn't have so many people on that single opponent that there is no fun at all and he can't do anything except die. We'd just get another cycle of the above-mentioned situation.
Wow, for all the people that disagreed with him here I'm surprised that BAF admiral would take on a gaian 1vs1 but I had 3 of them + FL gunboat + Junker Pirate transport and an indie police bretonia gunboat on me while I was in Ankii.
It's amazing how same rule is applied to my pirate transport, where only Hessians and Joker are guys that will not poke me so hard, and others will stack as much as 4 bombers on my ship to drown me.
You know what's most amazing? I think that's the right way to do it. I don't mind being in situation I can't win from time to time.
I don't see how a rogue vs 3 LN is overkill. If they're all fighter class, I think rogue just asked for it. Just as I asked for it when I came to Dublin with Kishiro, just as I asked for it when I came to take down a kruger miner and found 3 bombers, and just as that merc asked for when he came to collect a bounty.
I see 8 vs 1 as an overkill. Or maybe gunboat and a fighter against a fighter. But why aren't 3 pirates on one trader an overkill then as well?
I dont want to say that your way is wrong, it is certainly commendable, but if I have a pirate blocking my trade run. I don't see how 3 lawful officers at him are overkill.
But then again this is my opinion only, and not the one I would like everyone to use. Perhaps its bit hardcore. Perhaps you people see fun differently than I do. I just gave out my opinion and how freelancer usually happens for me.
I was in a similar situation as example #1 a couple weeks ago. 3 other Gaian's and I were out in Leeds looking for a little trouble and there were in fact some BAF within the system. We were already advancing in on our prey, something the senior officer had noticed early and I got a pm that his two recruits were repping and beginning their chars. Quickly changing tactics, one of us had prior RP with the officer and they made the encounter into a personal one. It lead into a personal duel and we watched, it was going quite well for both ships then the server dropped.....But anyways. I do agree to an extent what you are saying and also lean in the direction of "RP combat" but I take into consideration case by case situations. Keep in mind too that this is a game where everyone comes to have a good time, if "RP combat" is the term that will be used to mask an unfair practice of gathering into a group of 7 for the purpose of crushing enemies of 3 or less you'll find unwelcome reactions to that practice. There is a fine line between Rp combat and ganking, it's not always apparent, and it may depend entirely on the mood of the recipient that day. My suggestion, keep in mind who your facing. If it looks like you can do it with 5 and you got 7 call off 2 of the ships avoid unnecessary waste of power and resources.