Please, note bold parts to notice a conflict.
4.2 says: "... Guard IDd players are free to ... destroy any players who enter their respective guard systems. "
5.3 says: "... 5.3 Characters that are level 29 and below may only be attacked if at least one of the following conditions is met: ...", with following list of conditions which is lacking any mention of Guard systems or Guard IDd players.
I suggest: add one more condition to the list of 5.3 conditions (about player with level less than 30 being in Guard system), OR add exception to 4.2, excluding less-than-30 players from being destroyed. Whichever one is intended to be the case, that is (honestly, i have no idea).
6.4 names few official player factions, far from all. In case i am misinfirmed, my apologies, but my current believe is that players can't get *any* guard ID, unless they are part of official player faction. Yet current form of rule 6.4 actually allows them to do it. Order Guard battleship owned by someone who never ever spoke with any Order players, for example, would be bad thing to happen. I guess.
' Wrote:Please, note bold parts to notice a conflict.
4.2 says: "... Guard IDd players are free to ... destroy any players who enter their respective guard systems. "
5.3 says: "... 5.3 Characters that are level 29 and below may only be attacked if at least one of the following conditions is met: ...", with following list of conditions which is lacking any mention of Guard systems or Guard IDd players.
I suggest: add one more condition to the list of 5.3 conditions (about player with level less than 30 being in Guard system), OR add exception to 4.2, excluding less-than-30 players from being destroyed. Whichever one is intended to be the case, that is (honestly, i have no idea).
6.4 names few official player factions, far from all. In case i am misinfirmed, my apologies, but my current believe is that players can't get *any* guard ID, unless they are part of official player faction. Yet current form of rule 6.4 actually allows them to do it. Order Guard battleship owned by someone who never ever spoke with any Order players, for example, would be bad thing to happen. I guess.
Well 6.4 overrides 5.3
Anyone can get a guard ID so yup, there are lots and lots and lots of Osirises roaming around blasting everything that comes into Minor.
' Wrote:Well 6.4 overrides 5.3
Anyone can get a guard ID so yup, there are lots and lots and lots of Osirises roaming around blasting everything that comes into Minor.
6.4 is not related to 5.3, man. Not related in terms of any "inconsistencies" between the two, that is. 6.4 is one issue (inconsistence) in itself, and "4.2 vs 5.3" is completely another issue (another inconsistence). Of course, it's all just "imho" and nothing more. I just decided not to make two topics to save forum space. So it's two issues in one topic here.
If anyone can get a Guard ID (except ones currently forbidden-without-joining-player-faction by 6.4), then what *non-guard* IDs of same factions are for? I mean, if one can get "Order Guard ID" by just going and buying it, then what "Order ID" is for? Strange...
' Wrote:If anyone can get a Guard ID (except ones currently forbidden-without-joining-player-faction by 6.4), then what *non-guard* IDs of same factions are for? I mean, if one can get "Order Guard ID" by just going and buying it, then what "Order ID" is for? Strange...
The Guard reps are a lot harder to sort out than the regular ones. Pretty much anyone can get the regular ones by accident. It takes dedication to get the rep together for the Guard ones, which reflects their improved capabilities.
In this case, the <L30, Civilian player has no business being in a guard system. I can understand recruit ID'd players sometimes entering a guard system to get their ship set up (most of the times the guard NPC faction is still hostile though, so it'd not work). But a pure civvy can be booted from a guard system at will - First demand the vessel to leave, on refusal, use hot plasma.
5.3 needs an additional exception, thus.
' Wrote:Please, note bold parts to notice a conflict.
4.2 says: "... Guard IDd players are free to ... destroy any players who enter their respective guard systems. "
5.3 says: "... 5.3 Characters that are level 29 and below may only be attacked if at least one of the following conditions is met: ...", with following list of conditions which is lacking any mention of Guard systems or Guard IDd players.
I suggest: add one more condition to the list of 5.3 conditions (about player with level less than 30 being in Guard system), OR add exception to 4.2, excluding less-than-30 players from being destroyed. Whichever one is intended to be the case, that is (honestly, i have no idea).
6.4 names few official player factions, far from all. In case i am misinfirmed, my apologies, but my current believe is that players can't get *any* guard ID, unless they are part of official player faction. Yet current form of rule 6.4 actually allows them to do it. Order Guard battleship owned by someone who never ever spoke with any Order players, for example, would be bad thing to happen. I guess.
it is redundant.
if you are below level 30, and you enter a guard system that you are hostile to.... kaboom. the ships that yuo cann afford at that level are generally pretty flimsy, so they die before anything happens.
if you can afford armour upgrades, then you are higher than level thirty
All that logic about player under 30 which you guys posted is surely true in case it's indeed new player. However, afaik, rules are meant to sort out any and all situations, if possible. Including someone building a character with required rep, then buying cheap yet effective ship/shield/whatevers, and /givecash'ing away rest of available funds. Heck, one can even put really good RP behind such a "trick", something about being robbed, or being addict to casinos until his cash is all gone, and then buying cheap ship and things and starting to wonder the galaxy in hope to find his luck.
Even if above is not the issue, i believe rules must be formally correct and complete. Thus i posted the subject.
IRT to Sebastian: i see, thanks for explanation. But does it really mean that some (i'd even say, many) Guard IDs can be obtaioned without joining official player faction (which means rule 6.4 is actually correct (consistent))?
There is also 6.9:
6.9 The individual ID cards may have restrictions and/or allowance that are not covered by these rules. In the event of conflict, the ID's override the rules.
Which means yeah, you can be screwed no matter what you fly into a guard system.
It also allows the phoom, wild and keeper ID to function.
There is also giant loophole in that rule which technically allows BHG threshers to blast transports anywhere not in house space
Probably a lot more similar loopholes related to that for other IDs, but hunters irritate me the most, so are the example here.
' Wrote:All that logic about player under 30 which you guys posted is surely true in case it's indeed new player. However, afaik, rules are meant to sort out any and all situations, if possible. Including someone building a character with required rep, then buying cheap yet effective ship/shield/whatevers, and /givecash'ing away rest of available funds. Heck, one can even put really good RP behind such a "trick", something about being robbed, or being addict to casinos until his cash is all gone, and then buying cheap ship and things and starting to wonder the galaxy in hope to find his luck.
Even if above is not the issue, i believe rules must be formally correct and complete. Thus i posted the subject.
IRT to Sebastian: i see, thanks for explanation. But does it really mean that some (i'd even say, many) Guard IDs can be obtaioned without joining official player faction (which means rule 6.4 is actually correct (consistent))?
Rules here are not made to cover all eventualities. how can you make such a system unless you can predict every possible twist and turn of RP that will ever come? how could you predict that the zoners would square up to the corsairs?
to be fair, all rulings have to be REACTIVE, not PROACTIVE. Proactive rulings are found in tyrannical despotic ruled countries. Like the EU. Reactive rulings are found in Nanny-states, like the UK.
' Wrote:There is also 6.9:
6.9 The individual ID cards may have restrictions and/or allowance that are not covered by these rules. In the event of conflict, the ID's override the rules.
Which means yeah, you can be screwed no matter what you fly into a guard system.
It also allows the phoom, wild and keeper ID to function.
There is also giant loophole in that rule which technically allows BHG threshers to blast transports anywhere not in house space
Probably a lot more similar loopholes related to that for other IDs, but hunters irritate me the most, so are the example here.
Snozzer, your sig is too wide
If you happen to head up to the pinned comments regarding rules, you'll find this
note of explanation.
You enter into an owned guard system, it doesn't matter who you are. If you do not have the ID of the owning faction, they can do whatever they want with or to you - so long as they follow the strictures of rule 5.2. Your level is irrelevant.
It sounds like you're confusing official factions with the actual Guard ID. Those are actually two separate entities for most factions. For example, there are right now three (IIRC) official Corsair factions. That is indicated by their tags. Sails, [+], and Benitez. They can each own their own guard system. However, ANY Guard ID'd ship in a guard system can do police the system, fine and/or tax the intruder, not just the faction that owns the system.
For example, Braunschwieg is the RM Guard system. If I happen to be there with my Guard ID'd flying brick (aka Rheinland Battleship) and you show up in your level 10 starflea, even though I'm not in the actual official [RM] faction, once I have satisfied the RP requirements, I'm free to blast you to bits with my battleship.
Also remember and keep in mind one minor detail regarding level that a lot of people forget. You do a /restart command, you may still be below level 29 - but you no longer have civilian ID. You could be in a level 3 starflier - and if you have ANY ID that isn't civilian, you no longer have the underlevel protection at all.