Greetings.
I've got a Question about the Viligate ID concerning wars.
Quote:Pilot carrying this ID is a Vigilante, who :
* Can demand any non-house police or non-house military ships to drop any contraband
* Can hunt pirates and terrorists anywhere in Sirius except for the Omicron systems
* Cannot use ANY unlawful equipment or weapons (including Nomad weapons)
* Cannot ally with anyone except other Vigilantes
* Cannot attack any lawful police or lawful military except in self defense
* Cannot demand credits
* Cannot trade or escort traders
* Cannot fulfill bounty contracts
* Can only land on Bounty Hunter, Zoner, IMG, Neutral, and Freelancer bases
Allowed ships: Fighters, and Freighters
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime. Vigilantes are often considered to be unlawful and may be engaged by the lawful house police and house military. Players using the Vigilante ID MUST have a lawful tag/IFF and their equipment and area of operation must also reflect their tag.
So my Question now.
Are Vigilantes allowed to fight the House Military of a House their House is at war with within their ZOI when they perform 'hostile' actions?
According to the Vigilante ID they would not be allowed to do so.
Example:
A Kusarian lawfull Vigilante meeting a Bretonian Military Vessel which is currently fighting a Samura Transport.
Or fighting other Kusarian lawfulls, i guess you get the drift.
So that's my Question. Of course Vigilantes should not engage Police/Military of 'hostile' Houses unprovoked, but what if those perform actions that are consideres unlawful either by the House law or common sense (like attacking civilian coorps).
Regards,
Talesin
IMO - not they should not atack the militaries - they should hunt the unlawfuls the war in this case is not their problem - if you want to fight in a war join the navy - I must say that I don't really understand the purpose of vigiliante ID so I will ask for someone more experienced than me best admin to give his opinion on it.
Explenation of the ID purpose would be nice aswell.
Why not join the house militaries,peacekeepers if you want to hunt pirates,unlawfuls ? Or become a hunter? I don't really get the idea behind this ID so let's wait for some more opinions..
Greetings again.
Basically i understood it as if Vigilantes were people that decided to 'take the law-enforcements into their hands'. And to hunt down unlawfuls on their own.
So if it's their claim to fight unlawfuls - what keeps them from fighting back invaders?
Regards,
Talesin
As a vigilante you are a civilian as long as you meet the criminal in a quiet place to kill him, or whatever you think is right in your view of "correct justice".
Now, it's a question about "Do civilians engage in military battles?" - In Bretonia, maybe. Because they are losing the war, some might join the fight and defend their country. When the military is attacking a freight ship, well, it should be your choice if you want to help him or flee. That depends on your character imo.
But you shouldn't hunt them on your own. That's not what a vigilante does as far as I get it. As a civilian you will rather call the military and run for your life.
You aren't a hero. You are just someone, who thinks the justice system isn't doing what it should do and let's criminals go "unpunished". Of course, someone with a weapon ... wouldn't he use it to defend what he loves? Wouldn't he defend his home? His country?
As I said. The situation in Kusari isn't that bad, that civilians would arm themselves to do the militaries work. If you see a KNF fighting BAF I think you shouldn't engage.
But I can't tell you for sure though...
This is all about roleplay. I don't think someone will report a Vigilante because he is fighting enemies of his nation committing war crimes.
There is a conflict between an ID statement and the very purpose of the ID.
Common sense and RP will solve it.
Edit : The Vigilante ID is awfully broken anyway. Probably as much as the Researcher one.
Researcher ID is just useless. If you wish to RP researcher, you can always do that with any ID.
Would the vigilante be able to attack invading lawfuls?
Yes: For the simple fact that those invading lawfuls are not lawful in the eyes of the government holding those territories. But it carries limits in terms of where you can attack them.
For instance: A bretonian vigilante could definately attack Kusari in Leeds or Dublin, but attacking them in front of New Tokyo planet would be rather sketchy. The line blurs a bit when you go do something like that in the Taus - Tau 31, with Planet Harris nearby, is not unthinkable, but Tau 29, with all the Kusari bases there, is less sensible.
The basic thought behind the Vigilante is taking the law into your own hands. It's a "shoot criminals first, and do away with courts entirely" style of character. As such Vigilantes are not really soldier material. If you happen to come into such a situation, sure, you could help forces you deem to be lawful. But short of that...
Greetings.
' Wrote:But you shouldn't hunt them on your own. That's not what a vigilante does as far as I get it.
I never intended to hunt them on my own :rtfm:.
' Wrote:Of course Vigilantes should not engage Police/Military of 'hostile' Houses unprovoked, [...]
' Wrote:[...] fighting enemies of his nation committing war crimes.
Yes, war crimes, that describes the meaning i were searching for.
So basically Vigilantes fight crimes, what about war crimes - maybe this wording gives a better view on what i was meaning.
' Wrote:Would the vigilante be able to attack invading lawfuls?
Yes: For the simple fact that those invading lawfuls are not lawful in the eyes of the government holding those territories. But it carries limits in terms of where you can attack them.
For instance: A bretonian vigilante could definately attack Kusari in Leeds or Dublin, but attacking them in front of New Tokyo planet would be rather sketchy. The line blurs a bit when you go do something like that in the Taus - Tau 31, with Planet Harris nearby, is not unthinkable, but Tau 29, with all the Kusari bases there, is less sensible.
The basic thought behind the Vigilante is taking the law into your own hands. It's a "shoot criminals first, and do away with courts entirely" style of character. As such Vigilantes are not really soldier material. If you happen to come into such a situation, sure, you could help forces you deem to be lawful. But short of that...
That's pretty much my view on these things as well, but the ID clearly states that a Viligate cannot attack
any Police/Military exept in self defence.
So rule-wise it would be sanctionable, that's why i'm trying to get opinions concerning that madder.
Regards,
Talesin
' Wrote:Researcher ID is just useless. If you wish to RP researcher, you can always do that with any ID.
Well, you can. But should you ? I'd love to get rid of those pointless restrictions and use, say, Freelancer ID. But there are 2 main obstacles : Cargo limitation, and the fact that most people RP depending on your ID.
Back on topic :
Quote:I don't really get the idea behind this ID so let's wait for some more opinions..
Vigilantes are pretty much what Aeternus said : Solitary people that find the lawful forces are somewhat ineffective and who decide to handle things themselves. A Comics Super Hero would be a sort of Vigilante, I guess.
This ID really has potential, it's sad that the .86 is going to remove it (from what I've heard).
This thread leads me to a question.
Are Vigilantes allowed to wear Freelancer IFF and so their ZoI is unlimited?