Discovery Gaming Community

Allright.. so I went to test the other side .... and got myself a GB...

now my crusade against GB missiles turned into a barbarian raid !!!

Problems

- they do activate almost instantly when fired (so hits from 100ms while passing are easy), no way you can drop a CM as a reaction to that.. and if you spam CMs you get empty really fast.

- they fly at 145m/s + 140 GB speed =285, fighter missiles fire at 99 max + 200 fighter speed = 299,
EDIT: They also launch at 70m/s while fighter ones launch at 30 max.

- they track better than even sidewinders (actually reading their turn rate makes me believe they have the same as CDs!)

- you can fire them forever, 2 missile turrets (lib. ones) eat some 1/5 energy when fired.. but the energy recharges so quickly that you can fire at once... you can actually keep firing 2-3 normal GB turrets all the time together with the missiles

-------------------------------------------------
Testing
from GB side
- I did test this against RHA guys in Odins... with 150 people on server.. after I fixed my problems with re-targetting I could hit them on every 3rd pass with missiles...while firing the guns. Now 3 hits like that and you loose all guns..one or two and a vanilla fighter dies...(one if you get Dragonfly turrets)

- for comparing against fighter missiles I used NPCs.... I could get 8/10 hits against Centruions/Titan/Sabres...no matter what position I fired from, I did the same with CBs and Sidewinders against same NPCs.... I hit about 4/10 of missiles that were shot head-on from over 400ms (so that they had time to start tracking)

from fighter/bomber side I do have plenty of bad experience.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Arguments against

- Right now I hear everyone saying.. but what if it's laggy... well you can't balance anything for lag can you?
Half the time I play there are some 80-120 people on server..no lag at all in that case.

- they take up gun slots ... well yes 2-4 GB turrets are more than a match for any fighter/bomber group anyway...and getting a capship to counter them every time is not the right answer, not to mention that a GB with 4 turrets can still take on a Cruiser.

- GBs should be strong against fighters ... yes they should... but they should be possible to counter... yes if you get more than 3 fighters or bomber you can kill them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
What to change

- Make them use ammo!....simple... they are missiles after all and some GBs are barely bigger than 2 fighters. Oh.. and the ammo should cost more than fighter missiles.

i totaly agree with you mjolnir. but not only gb missiles,but all cap ship class missiles.and gb are strong again fighters. and they will strong with missiles turrets using ammo.

i don t think its possible to make them use ammo and still keep them useful.

there is a little problem with the calculation of missile speed. - the missile does fly at a RELATIVE speed of 145. - that means that it will fly a max of 145+130 ( gunboat speed ) but once it is forced to turn, it will slow down, cause 130 is the relative zero for the missile. so when it goes into the opposite direction, it ll fly 15 - and loose its tracking quickly.

other than that - i really really do not see a problem with missiles. we had a thread like that a few months ago. people asked for an inRP max load of missiles .. i think it was : 2 for gunboats, 4 for cruisers, 6 for battleships.

but in the end, it is down to how specialized a ship is. - a gunboat with 4 missiles hasn t got much left against other gunboats, but it is OK against fighters - at least those that do not dodge.

i know the argument with the gunboats size ( and the logic of them having no ammo ) - but sizes in FL are messed up. so i would think that a gunboat is of course a lot bigger than a fighter ( even if its not in FL:crazy:).
of course, i do not have your pvp experience - but i rarely see gunboats with a massive missile loadout. if someone equips them, he ll suffer heavy disadvantages, which - in the end, balance the ship. ( but yes, it encourages the use of bigger ships to counter such a loadout )

now, i wouldn t mind making those turrets 70 ammo ( shared ) but at the same time make the missiles worth shooting. - but how would that look? 70 missiles with a superoir tracking ( like a train CD with 6000 damage? ) or keep them as they are now ( meaning - out of 70, you may hit 2, which - in the end, can of course blow up a fighters guns completely )

the situation now might not be satisfactory, but i do not see any improvement. anything i can think of there makes it worse. ( or renders the missile turrets useless like flak turrets )

edit: so, i do not approve the idea. - missiles offer an advantage, aswell as a disadvantage. with the global ammo unchangable at 70, there is no way to make anything worth replacing it.

Simple. Make them use much more energy instead. That can also help.

Jinx: These missiles on a GB are quite unbalanced in that you really need to swarm it with people to be able to destroy it, and even then you might face losses due to one reason: GB agility.

Being in a fighter you can't even take the GB shield down unless you are packing a mini-razor. VHFs (especially pirate VHFs) rarely have it due to the need of having a CD for obvious reasons. So that put fighters entirely out. The alternative is bombers, ok. But bombers are useless against it too due to the instant tracking of the missile, the ability to fire it forever and the GBs agility.
Try and nova a GB in a bomber from 500m against a guy who knows what he is doing, it's impossible. You need to literally camp the tail of the GB. But, what exactly is so unbalanced with missile turrets compared to normal energy turrets? These missile turrets start tracking immediately after fired, so when you're 100m away from it there is no time to drop the CM, the missiles just hit you and within like 7 (give or take) hits your bomber is dead. You can't really dodge it since it tracks you, so there you go.

Quite frankly I do think there is a problem with them. At the very least the payload should be finite, or the tracking made like the one on normal fighters. It will still absolutely eat fighters due to explosive damage, but it will be more counterable.

Hard to decide. I had both situations, when i was happy to have them and angry been shooten by.
It depends on the circumstances.

I guess ammo taking missile turrets will make them rarely used. A kind of a dead equipment, which only costs file size of the mod.

The solution has to be found in the balancing between energy drain, damage they cause and homing ability.
A very complicate balancing, i guess.

Can't say more. I'm not that experienced.

Respectful
AoM

' Wrote:there is a little problem with the calculation of missile speed. - the missile does fly at a RELATIVE speed of
145. - that means that it will fly a max of 145+130 ( gunboat speed ) but once it is forced to turn, it will slow down, cause 130 is the relative zero for the missile. so when it goes into the opposite direction, it ll fly 15 - and loose its tracking quickly.

Fighter missiles fly at 90 to 99. Yet still they can be deadly weapons..

Quote:other than that - i really really do not see a problem with missiles. we had a thread like that a few months ago. people asked for an inRP max load of missiles .. i think it was : 2 for gunboats, 4 for cruisers, 6 for battleships.

How do you enforce that? You can't... if you introduce ammo this will come by itself... more missiles will eat your ammo really fast.

Quote:but in the end, it is down to how specialized a ship is. - a gunboat with 4 missiles hasn t got much left against other gunboats, but it is OK against fighters - at least those that do not dodge.

Many times proven point was that if you want to kill the GB you can't dodge the missiles.. since strafing and small changes of directions don't help.
Yet the GB can switch target, drop your shield in two shots and insta-kill you with missiles..
And no more bring more caps arguments please.

Quote:now, i wouldn t mind making those turrets 70 ammo ( shared ) but at the same time make the missiles worth shooting. - but how would that look? 70 missiles with a superoir tracking ( like a train CD with 6000 damage? ) or keep them as they are now ( meaning - out of 70, you may hit 2, which - in the end, can of course blow up a fighters guns completely )

Right... they have same turning rate as CDs now but are slower (thank god). As I prove out of 70 you hit with 20 (at least)... which will disarm 10 fighters or insta-kill 10 of them. No reason to waste them on shield right? Do you waste CBs on shield in a fighter? I don't.

Quote:edit: so, i do not approve the idea. - missiles offer an advantage, aswell as a disadvantage. with the global ammo unchangable at 70, there is no way to make anything worth replacing it.

I don't see ANY disadvantage in mounting 1-2 missile turrets against fighters. If you want to go against other GBs and fighters you can mount 4 Cerberus or 2 Cerb + 2 Inferno on the other slots... and it will still be deadly.

-----------------------------------------------------

Sorry but a lot of people I talked with were actually really surprised that they don't use ammo now!!!!

' Wrote:i totaly agree with you mjolnir. but not only gb missiles,but all cap ship class missiles.and gb are strong again fighters. and they will strong with missiles turrets using ammo.

Says the guy that virtually lives in his GB :)

missiles again fighters are great think.that know all. and again others gb? one little think here.when you shoot the missile directly to the oponent and he is shooting on you.the auto targeting system target the missile.so he is shoot missile,not you and you have some seconds time.

All for it if it is possible.