Can lawfuls and unlawfuls (police and criminals) ally under any circumstances? I don't mean just for one fight, but an alliance, an agreement of not killing each other and helping each other out in the future etc.
The reason I ask is, it seems the GC and BPA are allying. GC were docking on Bretonian planets, BPA were escorting a GC transport etc. They say it's allowed because they both share the Kusari as an enemy..
It's that kind of like Corsairs and Bounty Hunters allying because they both hate Outcasts? The BPA should be hostile to all criminals..
The OPG have been skirmishing with the BPA lawfuls recently, and when I suggested working with the KNF, not even an alliance, just in fights against the BPA, I was told that's impossible.
It depends on the situation, you see.
Idealists, such as GC or Blood Dragons, may get on well with governments which are hostile to their local government.
It all depends on the circumstance, really... it's not as simple as 'You are unlawful, I am lawful, I must shoot you', I'm afraid.
The Bretonian/Kusari war is very strange with the RP it offers. On one hand, the criminals ally with the police to drive of the invaders. On the other, you have the criminals allying to the invaders to help them take over. Very strange indeed. Even the Outcasts are 'assisting' the Breotonians in the war.
A rare example of exception that is. As long as GC do not posess wicked intentions on Bretonian authority, I don't see a problem for them to co-operate against a common opponent. Think about the Xenos fighting the OC off of New York with the navy and resuming their usual skirmish after repelling them, which is a short-term and slightly similar example of the case. However, the defaultness of ID definitions may play a contradictory role.
Right, as far as the war goes, there's two camps: the anti Kusari Regime, and the Pro Kusari Regime. The Corsairs like the current regime, cause the hogosha have power to sell their artefacts, and would like to see it expand into bretonia. Now, Outcasts don't have much say in bretonia, but they've friends in kusari who want the regime to fall apart, so thats their position. The GC and the BD want the regime to fall apart, so they can set up their own, and it expanding does not help them. The Gaians are the opposite, so far, the Kusari have been nicer to the environment, so they'd like to see the regime expand. Mollies, while not wanting to be under Bret rule, really just want independence, and the Kusari regime is less likely to give that to them...did I miss anyone?
It does happen with the KNF as well. They are quite openly supported by NLH.
Still, I think the statement needs to be clarified. The BPA does not "ally" with those groups. We merely tolerate them in Bretonia. Our diplomacy states any Kusarian factions as hostile and we do treat them this way.
Blood Dragons and Golden Chrysanthemums shouldn't be in Bretonia, in my opinion. The two Blood Dragons I encountered up to now were asked to leave immediately. One complied, the other not. The latter one found his ship destructed afterwards.
So, the BPA you saw today most likely escorted that GC - escorted him/her out. Anyways, we will see what it was about as soon as the responsible constables have made their patrol reports.
Note: all of the above is only about Dragons and Chrysanthemums.
' Wrote:It depends on the situation, you see.
Idealists, such as GC or Blood Dragons, may get on well with governments which are hostile to their local government.
It all depends on the circumstance, really... it's not as simple as 'You are unlawful, I am lawful, I must shoot you', I'm afraid.
Pirates, not so much. Idealists, yes. On my Bundschuh, Hans Krieger convinced me to go after Harvester_11. Someone asked why I was even talking to him as opposed to just PvPing him, to which I could safely respond "Because I respect the RM" (in-RP as well as ooRP). If there was someone attacking Rheinland civilians (Republican, Daumann, Kruger pilots/executives count as enemy combatants for Bundschuh, btw), I'd fight alongside RM in a heartbeat.
It's workable, but shouldn't be overdone. The GC landing on Bretonian planets is a little fishy, though- Bretonia wants Liberty to come into the war on their side, and they really don't want any media scandals to hit the news. Off the record and off the planets, however, I can see them helping each other beat up KNF/Samura/Kishiro, and just flying past each other elsewhere.
Governments often covertly assist the "unlawful" elements in another country when they are in a hot or cold war, or even when they are just rivals.
Case in point : Soviet and Chinese backing of illegal drug trafficking in the USA.
The Soviets backed narcotics trafficking in the USA as part of their Cold War strategy.
The Chinese government is still to this day supplying heroine to drug traffickers in the USA for cash, and because they would like to supplant US power.
On the flip side, the Afgani guerrilla fighters during the Soviet occupation of Afganistan were "unlawfuls" by most definitions, but the US supplied them with millions of dollars in arms and supplies to assist them against the Soviets (successfully, eventually).
By any historical measure, it is entirely reasonable for the Bretonian government to have dealings with the GC and Blood Dragons. Those dealings are best done covertly rather than openly, but since there is a "hot" war going on, it doesn't matter nearly so much.
Due to tensions between Rheinland and Liberty, those governments might reasonably provide assistance to the unlawfuls in the other's territory, but this would be done under the strictest secrecy, or it would inevitably create justification for a massive escalation in hostility.
Beyond all of that, there are an awful lot of people around here who have a very shallow, one-dimensional, narrow-minded, black & white outlook on roleplaying, as if you can only behave as Good, Evil, or Neutral. If you want to roleplay an archetype, go right ahead. Some of us, however, prefer some depth to our gameplay, as Lawful-Evil or Chaotic-Good.
In any case, all the ooc chatter about it in system chat was far worse than any supposed rp-infraction. Next time take your complaints to group or private chat, or just keep quiet.
At times, when there have been major foreign capital vessel incursions in the Rheinland, I, as Bundschuh, have assisted the Rheinland military with said hostile incursion. As we both share the same goals of protecting the Rheinland, I do not see the problem with that. We just happen to blatently disagree on how we treat the people. We still agree that the Rheinland needs to be protected though, and thus, that is what we do.
' Wrote:Governments often covertly assist the "unlawful" elements in another country when they are in a hot or cold war, or even when they are just rivals.
Case in point : Soviet and Chinese backing of illegal drug trafficking in the USA.
The Soviets backed narcotics trafficking in the USA as part of their Cold War strategy.
The Chinese government is still to this day supplying heroine to drug traffickers in the USA for cash, and because they would like to supplant US power.
On the flip side, the Afgani guerrilla fighters during the Soviet occupation of Afganistan were "unlawfuls" by most definitions, but the US supplied them with millions of dollars in arms and supplies to assist them against the Soviets (successfully, eventually).
By any historical measure, it is entirely reasonable for the Bretonian government to have dealings with the GC and Blood Dragons. Those dealings are best done covertly rather than openly, but since there is a "hot" war going on, it doesn't matter nearly so much.
Due to tensions between Rheinland and Liberty, those governments might reasonably provide assistance to the unlawfuls in the other's territory, but this would be done under the strictest secrecy, or it would inevitably create justification for a massive escalation in hostility.
Beyond all of that, there are an awful lot of people around here who have a very shallow, one-dimensional, narrow-minded, black & white outlook on roleplaying, as if you can only behave as Good, Evil, or Neutral. If you want to roleplay an archetype, go right ahead. Some of us, however, prefer some depth to our gameplay, as Lawful-Evil or Chaotic-Good.
In any case, all the ooc chatter about it in system chat was far worse than any supposed rp-infraction. Next time take your complaints to group or private chat, or just keep quiet.
Well said! Fantastic. You, sir, deserve a medal or a trophy for such an awesome post.