08-30-2012, 01:49 PM
This topic was opened in a thread in General Discussion - and while the topic was something that needed to be discussed, it was done so in a less-than-postive way (fueled by frustration, unfortunately)
As faction lead of the most prominent CR faction (running for officialdom), I wanted to bring this topic up. I'm sure there are indie CR players who might be interested in this topic, and in general, I want this to be a discussion about an issue that has become apparent in our shipline - namely one ship in particular.
First off, I want to examine our shipline, and give an outline of my take so far.
Eros - for a LF, I can give no opinions, since I have no basis to judge LF's
Nyx - Has been rebelanced from its 85 version, into one of the better fighters in the mod - back in 85, it always won on looks, but it was essentially a slightly worse sabre, with a harder to hit profile - despite that, it was still a great performer in the right hands, and now even more so - for a VHF, It is easily my reigning favorite, and were lucky to have both a beautiful ship, and a great performance fighter.
Pytho - For a medium bomber, it does its job very well - while I tend to get blown up in bombers, I've always found the Pytho to be rugged, reliable, and solid in performance - never had any complaints. While ships like the barghest and kaichou can spoil you, the Pytho is a nice moderate, balanced bomber, and we're lucky to have it.
Hydra - For a gunboat, it's also a solid performer - while I've always been terrible in gb's, I've started to fly them again since TS\Z makes things much easier - and the Hydra, being both a strong, and very agile ship, is a dream to fly, especially against fighters.
Thanatos - As a medium cruiser, its shape is very nice, its weapons placement is very nice, but my inexperience with cruisers, having only flown Scylla's and KuDessies, makes it hard for me to give a valid appraisal of the thanny - All I know is what other people say, and that while its agility is sluggish, it is still a very formidable cruiser.
And now, the Kronos - the crux of the issue.
I gave the examples of our previous ships, because I wanted to set the tone - that being, CR has made out like a bandit in the topic of performance ships - while some it is specialized, its all good - the Kronos exists as the only real bad apple. And what are its main problems?
Hull and Size. Of which it has too little hull for its great size. This imbalance makes it pretty ineffective versus what its supposed to fight - mainly the Outcast Ranseur, and the Gallic Valor.
In comparison - the Kronos, by stats, is in the same class as the Sarissa and Elbe - the Elbe has one less gun, and 3k more hull - the Sarissa has 7k less hull, and the same amount of guns. It's betters include the Aquillon, with 23k more hull, and the same amount of guns, and 200+ cargo.
Now, the popular opinion among the current CR| faction is a longing for the Zephyr - not as a companion to the Kronos, but to replace the Kronos. I understand the desire for the Kronos was made by former =CR= in their want of a heavy battleship (since the Zephyr was woefully under powered vs the Ranseur and Sarissa) - however, in the wake of the finished product, the Kronos fills the role it was intended even worse then the Zephyr did - case in point: Enviroment. The Zephyr, manufactured by the IMG, was slim, and designed to easily be able to traverse asteroid fields - this made it ideal for fighting in Tau 23. The Kronos, being as big as it is, and the shape it is, has more trouble with asteroids then a Valor. This, from an inrp standpint, is a massive design oversight. From a mod balance standpoint, I understand that Battleships need balancing factors, one of which is limiting their ability to get around. I am actually ok with this, despite how frustrating it can be (like flying a Nephilim from Omega 3 to Omicron 74).
What CR would like:
Well, to put it simply, we want the Zephyr back. Here's my inrp reasonings:
1 - From a standpoint of cost, its hard to see CR being forced into diaspora from Tau 44, and at the same time having the ability to construct an all new battleship. From an economic and industrial standpoint, since the primary economic base was through their partnership with IMG (IMG supported CR economically while CR supported IMG militarily), having lost that vast supply influx, its unrealistic that they would spend MORE on a brand new, and bigger hull.
2 - From an over view of CR, it's always been a snub faction. The idea from its original roots as a BSG import, its always been the "launch vipers!" kinda group. From that perspective, a Heavy cap should fit a "battlestar" design ethic - which is the idea of a carrier-battleship hybrid. A heavy Carrier, if you will, or a Battle-Carrier. With the advent of Jump Drives and Docking Modules, that rp can indeed become a reality - however, cargo space becomes an important aspect of this. From my understanding, Docking Modules take about 300 cargo each - which is not an issue for the Kronos, since it can only carry a meager two docking modules.
Assuming the Zephyr was added back, considering its 85 stats were woeful in terms of even modern caps, it falls so short of the modern standard as to be unusable - for instance, it only has 600k Hull, and 14 guns, putting it dead last, beaten only by the Mako, with its additional 20k of Hull.
Balancing it up to Kronos stats, or even comparable with the Aquillon would be something we would ask for.
3 - If bringing the Zephyr back turns out to be an impossibility, a heaved upon sigh would be had, but that still leaves options. If that turns out to be the case, we would ask for the Kronos to be re-balanced somewhat. In this case, we would suggest considerably more docking module space, akin to that of an actual carrier - like the Aquillon, which has two carrier bays, and two heavy bays (Apparently both the Elbe and LAC have similar numbers of docking bay slots), as well as an additional 200 cargo space.
If adding Docking Slots is not an option, we would ask that the ship be balanced appropriate to the Ranseur and Valor, in terms of hulls stats and guns slots.
Thats my outline - This is mainly a topic of discussion, since trying to reach the devteam on skype has proven to be unreliable (since Blodo wont answer my pm's).
Feel free to post opinions below, and discuss.
As faction lead of the most prominent CR faction (running for officialdom), I wanted to bring this topic up. I'm sure there are indie CR players who might be interested in this topic, and in general, I want this to be a discussion about an issue that has become apparent in our shipline - namely one ship in particular.
First off, I want to examine our shipline, and give an outline of my take so far.
Eros - for a LF, I can give no opinions, since I have no basis to judge LF's
Nyx - Has been rebelanced from its 85 version, into one of the better fighters in the mod - back in 85, it always won on looks, but it was essentially a slightly worse sabre, with a harder to hit profile - despite that, it was still a great performer in the right hands, and now even more so - for a VHF, It is easily my reigning favorite, and were lucky to have both a beautiful ship, and a great performance fighter.
Pytho - For a medium bomber, it does its job very well - while I tend to get blown up in bombers, I've always found the Pytho to be rugged, reliable, and solid in performance - never had any complaints. While ships like the barghest and kaichou can spoil you, the Pytho is a nice moderate, balanced bomber, and we're lucky to have it.
Hydra - For a gunboat, it's also a solid performer - while I've always been terrible in gb's, I've started to fly them again since TS\Z makes things much easier - and the Hydra, being both a strong, and very agile ship, is a dream to fly, especially against fighters.
Thanatos - As a medium cruiser, its shape is very nice, its weapons placement is very nice, but my inexperience with cruisers, having only flown Scylla's and KuDessies, makes it hard for me to give a valid appraisal of the thanny - All I know is what other people say, and that while its agility is sluggish, it is still a very formidable cruiser.
And now, the Kronos - the crux of the issue.
I gave the examples of our previous ships, because I wanted to set the tone - that being, CR has made out like a bandit in the topic of performance ships - while some it is specialized, its all good - the Kronos exists as the only real bad apple. And what are its main problems?
Hull and Size. Of which it has too little hull for its great size. This imbalance makes it pretty ineffective versus what its supposed to fight - mainly the Outcast Ranseur, and the Gallic Valor.
In comparison - the Kronos, by stats, is in the same class as the Sarissa and Elbe - the Elbe has one less gun, and 3k more hull - the Sarissa has 7k less hull, and the same amount of guns. It's betters include the Aquillon, with 23k more hull, and the same amount of guns, and 200+ cargo.
Now, the popular opinion among the current CR| faction is a longing for the Zephyr - not as a companion to the Kronos, but to replace the Kronos. I understand the desire for the Kronos was made by former =CR= in their want of a heavy battleship (since the Zephyr was woefully under powered vs the Ranseur and Sarissa) - however, in the wake of the finished product, the Kronos fills the role it was intended even worse then the Zephyr did - case in point: Enviroment. The Zephyr, manufactured by the IMG, was slim, and designed to easily be able to traverse asteroid fields - this made it ideal for fighting in Tau 23. The Kronos, being as big as it is, and the shape it is, has more trouble with asteroids then a Valor. This, from an inrp standpint, is a massive design oversight. From a mod balance standpoint, I understand that Battleships need balancing factors, one of which is limiting their ability to get around. I am actually ok with this, despite how frustrating it can be (like flying a Nephilim from Omega 3 to Omicron 74).
What CR would like:
Well, to put it simply, we want the Zephyr back. Here's my inrp reasonings:
1 - From a standpoint of cost, its hard to see CR being forced into diaspora from Tau 44, and at the same time having the ability to construct an all new battleship. From an economic and industrial standpoint, since the primary economic base was through their partnership with IMG (IMG supported CR economically while CR supported IMG militarily), having lost that vast supply influx, its unrealistic that they would spend MORE on a brand new, and bigger hull.
2 - From an over view of CR, it's always been a snub faction. The idea from its original roots as a BSG import, its always been the "launch vipers!" kinda group. From that perspective, a Heavy cap should fit a "battlestar" design ethic - which is the idea of a carrier-battleship hybrid. A heavy Carrier, if you will, or a Battle-Carrier. With the advent of Jump Drives and Docking Modules, that rp can indeed become a reality - however, cargo space becomes an important aspect of this. From my understanding, Docking Modules take about 300 cargo each - which is not an issue for the Kronos, since it can only carry a meager two docking modules.
Assuming the Zephyr was added back, considering its 85 stats were woeful in terms of even modern caps, it falls so short of the modern standard as to be unusable - for instance, it only has 600k Hull, and 14 guns, putting it dead last, beaten only by the Mako, with its additional 20k of Hull.
Balancing it up to Kronos stats, or even comparable with the Aquillon would be something we would ask for.
3 - If bringing the Zephyr back turns out to be an impossibility, a heaved upon sigh would be had, but that still leaves options. If that turns out to be the case, we would ask for the Kronos to be re-balanced somewhat. In this case, we would suggest considerably more docking module space, akin to that of an actual carrier - like the Aquillon, which has two carrier bays, and two heavy bays (Apparently both the Elbe and LAC have similar numbers of docking bay slots), as well as an additional 200 cargo space.
If adding Docking Slots is not an option, we would ask that the ship be balanced appropriate to the Ranseur and Valor, in terms of hulls stats and guns slots.
Thats my outline - This is mainly a topic of discussion, since trying to reach the devteam on skype has proven to be unreliable (since Blodo wont answer my pm's).
Feel free to post opinions below, and discuss.