Discovery Gaming Community

This question is a sincere one, and not a disguised attempt to level criticism at anyone in particular.

Why the restrictions with role-playing a Nomad?

The way I understand the situation on this server, if you want to be a true Nomad, you have to jump through some proverbial hoops to prove your worth.

What makes Nomads so unique, so sacrosanct, that a player has to submit his or her ability to roleplay properly to a 2nd party? Not to mention that being an independent Nomad roleplayer is out of the question entirely.

I have my own speculations.

Maybe there is a fear that players will want to become uber pwnzer players with access to all the kewl nomad toys. Thus the incentive to play a Nomad would be, for the most part, in attaining hardware and blasting just about everyone with it.

Then again, you see that in many other factions. If a player runs his or her Nomad oorpishly, than report it or deal with it ingame. I don't see a problem here, at least not an insurmountable one.

Peace.

basically... it gives the free and open opportunity for all of the meta gamers out there, to mess up the experience for the majority of the actual role players out there.

its really, really not worth it.

Because role playing a nomad like an entity that simply attacks everything is easy, there is no role play involved, only pvp. The people who want to be nomads have to prove they can bring much more to it then that, so we don't get overwhelmed with pvp hungry nomads who have no intention to role play at all.

What puck said. - The nomad ID grants you (nearly) the same amount of freedom as a Terrorist ID does.

You could almost say something lame like: "A keeper isn't made, a keeper is born", which is pretty damn accurate seeming how good roleplayers are damned rare now a days.

The gist of it is: They put you on trial so that they won't have some "foaming-by-the-mouth" leetz0r boy running around killing everyone in sight.

Well, the ID allows you to destroy any non-nomad target on sight, which is good RP considering the Nomads' overall silence. Also, nomad weapons are good, and people would buy them on their public nomad and bring them to their other characters. Keepers Lasers on an Eagle flying around Liberty? Wouldn't be too far out of the question, if the ID and rep was made public. However, the nomad rep can only be gained by a rep change, so it's more of an administrative task I believe.

Quote:What makes Nomads so unique, so sacrosanct, that a player has to submit his or her ability to roleplay properly to a 2nd party? Not to mention that being an independent Nomad roleplayer is out of the question entirely.

The reputations of a character must be edited by the admins themselves. Treewyrm and the Keepers get to filter through the requests, and when someone's roleplay is good enough, the info is passed onto the admins who can make the change. Independent nomads would have nobody except the admins to answer to, and the admins would have to filter through the players to see if they deserve the ID and rep change. The system will always require a second party to review any nomad rep requests, as the rep system is not going to be changed (to gain the rep by conventional means).
I believe there is some opposition to the admins deciding on players roleplay, as their job is mostly regarding the server rules not the administration of different NPC factions.

Independent nomads aren't out of the question, it's just that you cannot access the proper ships and the infamous ID. AC_Merc had an independent nomad, using the Public fighter. I had an independent nomad for quite a while, however it was turned into a Keeper when I discovered the post.

Keeper ID= possibility of major abuse.

An independent Slomon K'Hara is an oxymoron, given the Internet-like Mindshare's extreme prevalance. Barring examples like experiments or Seele.

People tend to go "Can i RP a nomad?" "Yes you can." " Can i have nomad ships and laser then?" "No you cant." "Then i wont RP one!"

If you wanna show what you've got, do it how most of us started off. In your little three-gunned light figther, not shooting, but "talking", RPing in the omicrons and forums. Even then, it aint sure you'll get to be a legal blue buddy. But its the only way.

Hell, even the Keeper's leader started of that way. Treewyrm. But then, he didnt have a light figther...

Quote:Also, nomad weapons are good, and people would buy them on their public nomad and bring them to their other characters. Keepers Lasers on an Eagle flying around Liberty? Wouldn't be too far out of the question, if the ID and rep was made public.

Ok, wouldn't a Nomad flying an Eagle be oorp? Even with Nomad ID and IFF, an Eagle would be a poor fit. So the Nomad Eagle pilot would be duly sanctioned. Done and done.

Quote:Independent nomads would have nobody except the admins to answer to, and the admins would have to filter through the players to see if they deserve the ID and rep change.

Ok, why wouldn't an independent Nomad be answerable in part to the Keepers? Seems workable enough and good rp besides. As regarding each player's "worthiness", what kind of standards and norms are we talking about here?

Quote:Because role playing a nomad like an entity that simply attacks everything is easy, there is no role play involved, only pvp. The people who want to be nomads have to prove they can bring much more to it then that, so we don't get overwhelmed with pvp hungry nomads who have no intention to role play at all.

This is a valid point. However, the case could be mad that this kind of behavior can be found in non-Nomad role-players. Case in point: yesterday's escapades in my BH gs. Enroute to someplace, I was encountered by 5 bombers and 1 gb. My opponents opened fire on me first, with a bare minimum of banter. The melee was in the spirit of rp, but as you could well imagine, very pvp-oriented. Second encounter I had in system xyz with 2 cruisers. Pretty poor rp, all in all - basically the garden variety "die BH scum". Once again, very pvp-oriented, at least for those battlecruisers.

I guess my point is this: people shoot one another here, in many situations, most of the time. Well, at least in those systems where my character patrols. Some rp-pvp, others pvp-pvp. If someone fails to rp with my BH, it doesn't ruin my day or make me rue the day I created a BH character. Instead, I try to communicate with the other player and talk things out. Failing that - flee or fight. If I see another BH whose rp seems a bit off kilter, I'll chat with him to get his story. If his rp is paper-thin to non-existent, I figure that he will learn or leave when he gets bored of the place. And I carry on my merry way.

If Nomads were to be made "public", there would be initially, no doubt, a lot of knuckleheads setting courses to Omicron Iota to pick up the bestest and uberest setup. Then they would go around killing stuff. But then there are others who would truly delve into the Nomad mystique and give back something to the community. The knuckleheads would have to eventually learn, delete their nomad characters or leave - peer pressure and admin authority is a combined power second to none on this server.

' Wrote:Ok, why wouldn't an independent Nomad be answerable in part to the Keepers? Seems workable enough and good rp besides. As regarding each player's "worthiness", what kind of standards and norms are we talking about here?

Aside of roleplay there are other qualities requires, such as but not limited to: responsibility, knowing border, limits, understanding the delicate balance of forces and opinions around.

I cannot be responsible for the actions of independent character and certainly will not take that weight, there is more than enough work as it is that I do, being involved in development and much more.

As much as I understand your concerns expressed here but you have to see the other side too. Because right now you are merely assuming of what might have been, and from my experience I would say that these assumptions are far-fetching, perhaps even naive, I'll explain why below.

There is always control that has to be maintained, so I control Keepers faction, Kane controls Phantoms, and admins control terrorists. I'm fairly positive that you'll have just as same chances in asking those parties of making say Terrorist ID public. Go ahead and ask them, I'm absolutely sure that they will reply saying "No such thing will ever happen" or something similar. So why here?

Finally, throughout the period of version 4.83 I think we have witnessed what public access have made: mercenaries on Nomad cruisers, Nomad battleships without any roleplay at all camping New London, et cetera. All that massive ooRPness and blatant abuse have only made work of many good people here much much harder in making Nomads to become a playable side on Discovery, come to think of that too. We had to actually turn the whole community 180 degrees around on the topic of Nomads being playable, a community that has been closely watching those sanctions and shaking their heads saying "no". Check what was back then for yourself, may be a bit of history will shed a light on how it all changed and what work has been done. I'm sorry, but there is simply no way back.

Now, back to the topic. Let's see this example, a very common one that I have witnessed myself numerous times year ago when playing verion 4.83. Assume we have a player called John (no offense to Johns here). One day John decided that Nomads is what he wants, we don't know the reasons why, but he buys the Nomad ship and buys the Nomad ID. Now that ID would give him rights to kill anything what he desires. Assume that John did something completelty out of the line and terribly wrong that has nothing to do with roleplay or so, for example he came to New York on his shiny Nomad battleship and started camping Manhattan. Now, what powers would I have over him? None at all. I could, of course, say that he is very wrong in doing so, but he can simply show me the middle finger (or tentacle?) and be on with it, because there is nothing I can actually do about him. In the faction I can explain what went wrong and how to solve the problem, a faction member will listen to that. But we don't even need that - those that get in have already went through substantial course through which we can understand if the person is responsible enough for the freedoms he or she will be granted with. Now, you would say: let admins deal with this then. Fine, but let us remember how much work they have already, ask how many sanction reports they get daily. Re-engagements, pirating in capital ships, harassment, swearing, cheaters just to name the few most common, the list can go on forever. I've been often talking to admins and know how much work they have to do on a daily basis. Adding more pressure and putting work on their shoulders - we, players, don't need that. So there is me, acting as a filter, a proxy. It is my task, my responsibility here. But we don't need to imagine and assume here things: there are many sanctions dating back to 4.83 where Nomads ships were simply taken off from players and they were put into starfliers to the Temple of Revenant. They had no roleplay, they were abusing gameplay, no sense of reason and balance at all. But only those very very few that did (I can count them by one hand) have formed what today you know as The Keepers. Back then we lair foundation to what we have today and a lot more to come with upcoming 4.85.

Understand also that I'm not discussing any possibilities here, I'm merely stating facts here. Facts upon which the current model exists. Surely, it's not ideal, but nothing is ideal in this world either, there is always human factor and we are all individual beings each having their own mind and view on the things around. But these are the common grounds where we play at, just as there are new possibilities to open don't forget that there are borders of sandbox to remain within.

Also here is another thing: player base is not monolithic. There are long-timers here, there are players who left and then came back, but there are also players that come looking only for PvP. And I will not be dealing with such people where my responsibility lies at.

Theory is all good, but there are practical concerns to take into account as well. And they, from my experience, outweigh theoretical component by far here on the topic.

My thanks to all contributors to this post. It answered just about all of my questions.

I am at a disadvantage in this debate because I haven't played on the 4.83 mod.

Yes, I can imagine people going oorp with their Nomad characters. It's easy to imagine, because some people oorp their various characters over a spectrum of factions in the current mod.

See you in the black.