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+--- Thread: Thank you for your invaluable input... (/showthread.php?tid=11518)
Thank you for your invaluable input... - Magoo! - 08-23-2008
This is a shout-out to Hoova, God MC. You all know him, thats JZ.
Okay, soo... Nuts and bolts of the situation. All info based from Here
I really... REALLY think the LN needs some... Redecorating. To avoid a slightly flamish tone, I'll list things in a monotoned order. Hopefully none of you will go, "OMGTEHGBIASEDOPINIONLEEVELEEVENAOB4TEHADMINBANZU!".
1. When there are 10 of you online, you don't need three Dreadnoughts out. Get the other two of your people out of them, and have one. The Missouri is there for the protection of Liberty, she doesn't need three more outside helping her scan passersby.
2.
Titan Wrote:As for the dreadnoughts I do believe they were there because an attack on a naval officer happened...
OH MEH GAWSH AN AVENGER IS UNDER FIRE! BREAK OUT THE FLEET!
It was unnecessary and quite honestly, a not-so-creative nor semi-intelligent excuse for liking a big ship. IF one of you has bad connection or is better in a dread, again, the other two should break out their lovely little Guardians.
3.
Quote: Right, first things first.
Plato is not a cardamine smuggler. He is an informant...
I've been through this with the LSF. They haven't really done much recently so I'm not sure if they took my suggestion, but I'll say it again here.
If nobody except two other people know about it in the community, how does that benefit the community? It doesn't. It benefits you, and when that secret little arrangement that nobody else knows about gets trifled with (Unwittingly of course) it gives you a reason to annihilate something.
How many special teams in a military get sent into a situation without knows? "Hey, Bravo team, we want you to storm the estate. Al-Akiliwamdoojad should be somewhere inside."
"Sit-rep on the surroundings, sir?"
"You'll figure it out."
Turns out, there are mines, armed guards, mounted machine guns, guard dogs, spotlights, and Ethiopian mercenaries. They didn't know it was going to go FUBAR. "Just another mission," say they. See, Cray thought, "Just another Cardamine bust" while you (representing the lazy un-fortelling leader) greedily twiddled your thumbs and fired up your cannons.
Capt. Noobius seems to share my sentiments on this train of thought (post #18) as well as Jimmy on post #33.
4.
SaxophoneAvatarGuy Wrote:OOC:
Kearsarge, what you are doing, by saying that you executed Valence, is powergaming.
You are not supposed to control the life of the other player's character without his/her express permission.
While I agree with you in this regard, I'm not all too impressed with LN forum RP either. It seems like you trying to annihilate somebody's right to be in Liberty seems like powergaming too, especially since its such a "hush hush" operation and he couldn't have known. See, I *could* infiltrate some hierarchy then make all these secret plans which I have safely saved in a text document then go, "DAI! U SUQ MEH ROOLZ SO I PWN U for... Something you didn't know about."
It seems like both sides are just trying to pile on more stuff to counter-act the others' point. Well... I suppose this is an unfairly pointed question seeing as how most militaristic forum politics are like this, but hey... This is for everybody, asking them to improve their thought process to not ONLY try to achieve what they want.
Side 1 posesses A which is a big hole in Side 2's plot.
Side 2 suddenly (and magically) posesses B, which counteracts A and kicks Side 1 in the nuts.
5. Finally, don't use the word "soldier" in reference to the Navy. I'm sure any real soldier would punch you for that statement. Same goes for calling Marines soldiers. They are not, and I can tell you from experience that they strongly dislike the Army. So don't use Navy and Marines in corrolation, okay? The Marines may technically be a department of the Navy, but they are indeed the men's department.
5.1 Okay, I lied, this is Finally. Finally, don't all the LN get all self-riteous and start a flame war. These are problems I see and that need fixing. None of the JG flipped out during the community's barrage of... Not-so-friendly criticism and back-handed insults. Thats, all.
Sempi Fi!
Thank you for your invaluable input... - Koolmo - 08-23-2008
Amen, my son! As a person who has begun to frequent liberty less and less due to both the LN, LSF, and mostly the Indies, I applaud your well-reasoned approach to the situation, and attempts to resolve it.
With response to number 5, yes, yes, and h*ll yes. As a soldier myself, anyone in the navy calling themselves a soldier is a bit of a pissoff. Good point about the Marines as well, although they do technically qualify, I can't see the marines liking it too much.
As for number 1, the problem is not just the LN. Indies in battleships, battlecruisers, and cruisers are increasingly common in Liberty space, and watching a Lane Hacker Fighter attacked by 2 LN fighters and a swarm of indie capital ships is a little disheartening.
Thank you for your invaluable input... - Jihadjoe - 08-23-2008
OK, I am all for factions getting reveiwed by their peers once in a while. Its a good thing.
However I think doing it now when we already have a few people both inside and outside the LN smarting a bit from that last little issue is not the best time for it. Let thing settle a bit before doing this.
I am in the LN as a low ranked flyer in a guardian, and I don't pretend to speak for the faction as a whole. However I do think that the LN is a good and for the most part very well roleplayed faction. Liberty has its issues, and it can be very hard to roleplay around them at times.
My point I suppose is this, and it is made very calmly...
You can't base a whole faction review off a single event. It may have coloured and tarnished your veiw, but its not something on which you can level faction wide critism. If you want to critise the way that was handled go ahead, but in my humble opinion, you're painting with a very wide brush here magoo.
edit: Appologies Leo.
Thank you for your invaluable input... - Leo - 08-23-2008
Call me a soldier, see what happens...
...I'll murder you.
Amen Magoo, well put.
~Leo
Thank you for your invaluable input... - TDLdark - 08-23-2008
I do not speak on behalf of the LN, but I do have a LN character that I spend a great amount of time on and I disagree.
This post is disgusting, and insulting to the LN, and the hard work put out to improve it. If you are trying not to flame the LN, congrats, you didn't go a good job. For example
Quote:OH MEH GAWSH AN AVENGER IS UNDER FIRE! BREAK OUT THE FLEET!Yes, becuase depicting the LN in that manner is in no way possible insulting somehow.
1. The LN rarely have caps out. In most cases, we stick to our fighters and bombers. It is the indie caps that come on, and still, even then, most are gunboats, a few are cruisers, a very limited number are battlecruisers, and practically none are dreadnoughts. In fact, it seems that lately, we are the ones having a problem with Indie pirates using caps, usually gunboats, though we have seen the occasional Spyglass.
2. No, we do not break out the fleet in case of a attack. As I said, we rarely use caps, and most of the time, the LN use bombers instead of caps. You shouldn't consider indie caps as part of the LN, since that's what it seems like.
3. If everyone was informed about this operation, it wouldn't work at all. I'm quite sure the problem wasn't halting the disguised informant, it was when the order to let him go was disobeyed. If you read that thread thoroughly, you would have seen that Vincent asked Cray to stop and leave the smuggler alone, a order which he disobeyed. Now at this point, Vincent has two choices: Somehow stop Cray from destroying the valuable informant, or letting the informant be destroyed.
4. Again, the problem is not Cray halting the smuggler and demanding a drop, it's when Cray disobeyed the order to stop.
5.1. Again, as I said, if you wanted to prevent a flame war, perhaps you could have phrased your rant in a better manner.
Thank you for your invaluable input... - Titan - 08-23-2008
1. When there are even more than 4-5 of us on, always everyone is in fighters, our dreadnoughts are nearly never out, in fact most people are aware of this and very proud of the LN for being like that.
2. It was necessary and they actually didn't come online just to kill that guy, they happened to be there by accident, doing some transfers.
3. Your point is a bit flawed, if everyone knows about a secret operation, its not secret anymore. This is more realistic. Frankly I want to do RP that will benefit LN and its immediate surrounding factions, I couldn't care less about this so called "community" that stabs each other in the back at every given chance, people on these forums are frankly childish and petty.
4. We got rid of him for directly refusing to take our orders, it was quite simple, all he was asked to do was come to a court martial, at which we'd simply listen to his evidence, the evidence of the other side and make a ruling, he refused and disobeyed a direct order, which resulted in some forum RP, again, your point is flawed.
5. This has absolutely no effect on anything.
5.1 I've only be receiving praise and compliments about the LN lately, so I don't see a problem, there are minor issues, but considering other factions have much bigger problems, I won't bother the community by sharing ours:) In other words, we'll deal with it.
Thank you for your invaluable input... - Internity - 08-23-2008
' Wrote:Yes, be In fact, it seems that lately, we are the ones having a problem with Indie pirates using caps, usually gunboats, though we have seen the occasional Spyglass.
Occasional ? haha don't make me laugh I have multiple screenshots of me and another two fighters many other times when we found ourselfs near those huge ships "spyglassess"
To get beleved around here I`ll post two screenshots of us fighting both have been taken at different times and days.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k247/RS-...i/EatMeeee2.jpg
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k247/RS-.../screen9392.jpg
The images are too big, just click the link and you will see them.
Thank you for your invaluable input... - Zavier - 08-23-2008
Okay, I have one very good question, even though this is probably not the best place to ask this.
If you never use your dreadnaughts....why do you have five of them?
Because quite frankly, quite a few people have been wondering that.
Thank you for your invaluable input... - chopper - 08-23-2008
I have only one point that makes no sense to me at all.
Magoo put it under the number 3, and I would like to see that discussed.
A ship named Plato had Cardamine in it's hold. Fact.
A ship named Plato was asked to drop it's contraband by lawful forces. Fact.
LN interfered in a way they shouldn't. Fact.
Now, how did they interfere? Imagine a CIA agent sniffing some drug in front of Wall Street.
Cops comes buy, tries to arrest him, but something happens now.
Yeah, Delta team is going in, shooting all the cops down, and saving the innocent CIA agent, because he's an informant.
Point being, how is a -SPECIAL TREATMENT- helping him stay an informant?
If anyone can explain this to me, I'll jump of the roof.
Any normal informant would drop the cardi, go to prison, get out of prison due to his connections.
He wouldn't start a bloody civil war over it.
He should have dropped the cardamine and payed the fine. FACT!
As it is now, it just looks to me that he was one of the buddies from skype, and didn't want to waste 20 mins long run, so he PM-ed a LN buddy from skype.
I don't know if that's the truth, I'm just saying how it 'looks' because of wrong reactions.
I am not going into it any further, I don't know if those two fellas rammed you or not, not like it's important at all.
What I do care about is an non-RP act (now I'm gonna get shot by Hyung-Song) is presented as a flawless RP.
I hope it's gonna get fixed in the future.
As for LN cap spammage, that's pretty much untrue. I spend some time in Liberty and LN are usually spammed by all kinds of crappy capital ships (OC made usually), and they don't bring out the big guns, usually.
Also, one more thing that goes in my 'skype friends' story, and which I'm sure most people don't even know about.
I undock from Manhattan to find 101st MNS Fantasia in Manhattan's orbit.
Since I have a deal with one of LN leaders for the bounty, I gather a few more mercenaries.
Of course, since one Liberty dread was around there too, I asked for permission to fire.
Guess what?
"Attention. MNS-Fantasia is not to be fired uppon! It is a friendly vessel!"
WHAT?
Hello? Manhattan's orbit? What the hell happened there?
Of course, then I contacted another high-ranking LN officer and he told me to ignore the Dreadnot orders, which I did.
But still, the point is, keep your 'skype buddies' on skype, treat them as you should in game.
Thank you for your invaluable input... - Titan - 08-23-2008
Actually we have 3 dreadnoughts, 1 of them comes online every 2-3 months.