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+--- Thread: The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' (/showthread.php?tid=12900)
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - Guest - 10-09-2008
This is going to be almost a rant, but Im rather confused about people who, when going on a raid or such, when fail, use the term ''This wasn't a equal fight''
I wish to have the communities opinion of this, since this is also going to be added to my social studies homework.
Basic examples are....I am in a gunboat and see that there is someone in Tau 37.
I head out and find that there is a Havoc MK II of all things, harvesting OC npcs.
I ask the pilot to drop them and leave, instead, he ignores me for some time, till he finally harvests all of the poor pilots...then he turns to me and fires a torpedo at me, that, of course, has no real effect on a GB shield.
After he fired about 10 of them at me, while i told him one more time to drop the pilots, i shot him down.
He could only say that ''it was a nice shot, yet its not fair if you bring a GB to bring down a bomber''
Well..this brings two questions.
Should i be called unfair if i gave him a chance to simply drop the pilots, instead of engaging him on sight.
Should i even be accused of being UNFAIR to go pick a fight with a BOMBER while in a GB of all vessels. (and i don't mean a missleboat)
Another off topic question is, if the Havoc bomber a civilian ship, since, something i saw i could buy in Liberty suddenly showing up near the Omicrons is quite strange.
Another thing to add is a Equal fight....There is no equal fights or wars would never end. There is always a loosing side and a winning side.
Heres a debate (fresh out of my homework) You see a GB entering the system. Hostile. Yelling about a raid. You group up with a dessie and go to punish the poor guy.
After hes killed, here comes the flames about unequal fights.
Fine...i understand getting killed by big ships with backup is not fun...yet heres the thing.
(in my point of view) You don't send a solder to kill an enemy solder....you send something bigger. like an APC or something. Why? What is better...to fend off the enemy with no losses or to send one or two solders of your own and have the chance that they might be killed, only having to send an APC later on when the enemy starts snickering.
Since im replying to other posts ive lost the general idea i wished to get out of this...i guess my question was Win over Fairness....or something like that...
Trial by forum maybe? Nah, not pointing fingers, simply i need your input about this so i can do my homework.
And please...don't make me tell my teacher ''I haven't done my homework since the discussion turned into a flame fest and had to be locked''
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - Linkero - 10-09-2008
It was a perfect fair fight as far as I am concerned. You were defending yourself. From what you wrote, he shot first. That being said you had every right to kill him
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - Orin - 10-09-2008
There's a point when a fair fight becomes an advantaged fight becomes a wtfpwn session.
Fact is, a bomber against a GB is a fair fight. If the bomber has the goods, he could tweak you pretty good. If you have an anti-fighter set up (all Solaris and such, no missileboating pl0x) you could mess him up pretty easily as well.
Put short: You're fine. Don't worry about it.
But in regards to fair fights, there's a point when fairness does need a part. If two bombers come in system, you can't expect to send in a few fighters when you have more in reserve. You just need to use good judgement. If a there's a nice, fairly equal fight, let it play out. Hang back. Nothing wrong with that. If your side starts getting hit hard, jump in. Nothing wrong with that either.
Of course, while you wouldn't send a soldier to kill a tank, you wouldn't send a battle fleet to kill a tank either. Keep it close, if you have the resources, use them, but just try not to overpower everything. It ain't fun for anyone when that happens.
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - Tenacity - 10-09-2008
hah... bombers are made to take out caps, even gunboats - he just fell victim to his own stupidity and piss-poor choice of weapons.
In this situation, I dont think it was an unfair fight so much as he was being an idiot. However, I have been in unfair fights before - both on the overpowered and underpowered sides. Just the other day I was near insta-killed by two bounty hunter gunships who had loaded themselves up with 2-4 missile turrets each, against my nephthys fighter. Yes, I was pissed, because their loadout was one that required no skill and showed no respect for the opponent. I've also been in engagements where we had an entire fleet of fighters, bombers, and caps against one or two small capships or fighters - while it was still in-roleplay to kill the enemy, it offered no challenge and was really not a fun or rewarding fight.
I think more people need to keep in mind here that while, yes, you can have a loadout or ship or group that completely overpowers the opponent and kills them before they can even fight back - it's probably not in the best interests of FUN to use that loadout/ship/group. Give the enemy a chance to fight back, and it will be a much more rewarding battle for both sides.
I dont mind dying in pvp as long as it's a good fight, but I absolutely hate dying in pvp when I dont stand a chance in hell at beating the enemy - in those situations, rp or not, it's better to just run or give up and die, neither is a fun choice. I find reward in knowing that I'm better than my opponent as well - that I beat him by skill rather than by having ridiculously more power on my side of the engagement. I hate it when I go 1 on 1 with another fighter and some capship decides he needs to join in and destroy the guy within a few seconds.
Now, granted... there have been situations where I've had my allies "sit on the sidelines" while I fight an opponent solo, and if things tip against me and the enemy is beating me then yea, i'll ask for help - anyone would. However, after winning (or sometimes losing) I always give a "good fight" to the opponent in a private message and tell him that he'd have beaten me by skill either way.
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - Guest - 10-09-2008
' Wrote:It was a perfect fair fight as far as I am concerned. You were defending yourself. From what you wrote, he shot first. That being said you had every right to kill him
Well, cant really say i was Defending myself since he couldn't actually harm me...Rp reason was that he was killing ships of a faction im friendly with.
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - n00bl3t - 10-09-2008
The fight was fair.
However, you should not turn fights into "wtfpwn" sessions. It is just cheap and hampers game-play.
Edit:
' Wrote:hah... bombers are made to take out caps, even gunboats - he just fell victim to his own stupidity and piss-poor choice of weapons.
In this situation, I dont think it was an unfair fight so much as he was being an idiot. However, I have been in unfair fights before - both on the overpowered and underpowered sides. Just the other day I was near insta-killed by two bounty hunter gunships who had loaded themselves up with 2-4 missile turrets each, against my nephthys fighter. Yes, I was pissed, because their loadout was one that required no skill and showed no respect for the opponent. I've also been in engagements where we had an entire fleet of fighters, bombers, and caps against one or two small capships or fighters - while it was still in-roleplay to kill the enemy, it offered no challenge and was really not a fun or rewarding fight.
I think more people need to keep in mind here that while, yes, you can have a loadout or ship or group that completely overpowers the opponent and kills them before they can even fight back - it's probably not in the best interests of FUN to use that loadout/ship/group. Give the enemy a chance to fight back, and it will be a much more rewarding battle for both sides.
I dont mind dying in pvp as long as it's a good fight, but I absolutely hate dying in pvp when I dont stand a chance in hell at beating the enemy - in those situations, rp or not, it's better to just run or give up and die, neither is a fun choice. I find reward in knowing that I'm better than my opponent as well - that I beat him by skill rather than by having ridiculously more power on my side of the engagement. I hate it when I go 1 on 1 with another fighter and some capship decides he needs to join in and destroy the guy within a few seconds.
Now, granted... there have been situations where I've had my allies "sit on the sidelines" while I fight an opponent solo, and if things tip against me and the enemy is beating me then yea, i'll ask for help - anyone would. However, after winning (or sometimes losing) I always give a "good fight" to the opponent in a private message and tell him that he'd have beaten me by skill either way.
Camera ship verse Zoner Destroyer.
Note: Camera ship has 0 guns.
Fairness Inc.
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - Guest - 10-09-2008
' Wrote:Now, granted... there have been situations where I've had my allies "sit on the sidelines" while I fight an opponent solo, and if things tip against me and the enemy is beating me then yea, i'll ask for help - anyone would. However, after winning (or sometimes losing) I always give a "good fight" to the opponent in a private message and tell him that he'd have beaten me by skill either way.
One of the times i had a similar situation was when i encountered two corsair Titans in my other GB...i had 4 Solaris GB turrets and 2 dragonflies (so basically your usual anti bomber loadout when assisting larger capital ships on a raid)
Yes...i think i could have been called a capwhore right then and im sad that one ate a dragonfly, seeng as though Titans are vanilla ships and are more or less doomed when a missile is chucked at them.
One died, the other got away since ''my scanners failed and the target was lost''
I understand a fair fight and before i kill, i put myself in the place of the person im going up against.
But sometimes its a two sided thing...i was called a capwhore for killing a Huntress in a GB...how is that logical *laughs*
Oh..perfect, heres another question...
Where does the Capwhore term kick in...
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - Orin - 10-09-2008
Attacking a Huntress in your GB! You should be ashamed of yourself!
;)
But as for most fights, and the Titan duel, that's not a wtfpwn session. They were disadvantaged, yes, but they still had a chance. Regardless, they could have run away.
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - Guest - 10-09-2008
' Wrote:Attacking a Huntress in your GB! You should be ashamed of yourself!
;)
But as for most fights, and the Titan duel, that's not a wtfpwn session. They were disadvantaged, yes, but they still had a chance. Regardless, they could have run away.
Well i did pay the guy 500k for outright capwhoring him...
So i guess either i made him feel better or humiliated him even more >.>
The term ''Fair and Equal fight'' - looqas - 10-09-2008
I just say. Use the noodle in-game to cook up some common sense.
I know it's a lot to ask from some people, but try.
Jesus had it correct, "Do to others what you'd like them to do to you:"