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+--- Thread: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! (/showthread.php?tid=152599)
Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Jack_Henderson - 08-07-2017
Pretext: I have been mining for many many hours in many many different places, conducting mining tests. And one thing struck me: there are too many places, too many ores and near-zero interaction taking place in any of these areas. Mining for hours was a single-player experience, and I am not joking.
Consequence: We need to bring players together, and mining development can and needs to do that. Disco is only good when you interact with other players. Peaceful grinding without meeting anybody might be convenient, but it is also a guaranteed tombstone for Disco.
Solution: Radical centralisation of mining commodities in a few systems that become Activity Hubs, Flash-Points, Action Centres. Devs told me they cannot / don't want to reduce the amount of minable commodities at the moment, so these minables need to be positioned in a sensible way - meaning: they have to be grouped in a few systems.
Flashpoint-Activity-Systems: Those aim to be places where you can almost guaranteed meet players. Remember Dublin the the old times, or Delta Freeport, or Omega 7 - just to name some. Always action. Always interaction. Such systems have to be well-placed, need to have bases close that most factions can access, and have to be in places where there is a lot of irp-conflict, so that a lot of different IDs can go there.
After finishing my frustrating mining experience, I drew up the most radical centralisation draft I could come up with. Inside these systems, the fields would be grouped together, in scanner range, so that people see each other. Not like now in Dublin, where 60k are between fields.
Beware: Radical draft ahead:
Omega 9 (also works with O5, if you hate O9)
All Omega ores are placed in the center, so that players are in scanner range of each other. This forces interaction between Rheinland, Hessians, Coalition, IMG, Sairs.
Rheinland's O7 needs to have a JH to it. Just saw that O7 does not connect to O9 any more... it should, in my draft.
- Copper Ore (from ex-O7)
- Silver Ore (from ex-O7)
- Cobalt Ore (from ex-O3/future O47)
- Diamonds (from O11)
Dublin:
Dublin doesn't work too well, but as Mollys are totally formed around Gold, it has to stay. I'd add different Bretonia ores. So that Gallia, Bretonia, Mollys, IMG, Sairs can spar there.
- Gold Ore
- Berryllium (from ex-Cambridge)
- + one more?
Sigmas: 13
GMG, Samura, Kishiro struggling with each other because tehy actually meet. Plus: S13 gets transit traffic on the lanes for unlawfuls and already has OC and Sair base. So also that conflict can be there.
- Helium-3
- Platinum (ex-Nagano)
- + one more?
Tau 23
OC, Gallia, Kusari, IMG meeting there. Big smuggling routes go through. All Gallic traffic, too.
I threw out Raw Hydro Carbons from Taus, as BMM will not be mining there anytime soon.
- Niobium
- Beryllium
- Aluminum (from ex-Picardy)
Omicron Delta:
Have OC, Sairs, Zoners, Core, Order, AI struggle over ressources there. Put the fields into visible range of each other, and Freeport 11 will be a place to find people again.
- Outcast Ore / Cryo Organisms
- Corsair Ore / Xeno Relicts
- Iridium Ore
Liberty Hub: I am told "Bering" would be better.
- Scrap
- Premium Scrap
- DSE-ore
- UN-ore
So... that would be 6 systems now. I know that it is not yet balanced. I am pretty sure I also forgot some mineables. I know that this is likely sometimes not "irply-realistic". And likely it is too radical...
BUT: I think it shows what I mean when I say: "Centralisation of activity is essential!". There is no way around it any more in a Disco that has 60 players when things are good, and 30 when not. That's what I am convinced of after spending hours mining in remote systems no one ever cares for and meeting no one ever there!
Thank you for reading it.
Jack
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Wesker - 08-07-2017
Omega-9 needs to be deleted
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Antonio - 08-07-2017
I agree with the concept, but your suggestions are way too extreme. There are no ores in Kusari for example, Samura would never give up Nagano for Sigma-13 where GMG can pirate them as well as unlawfuls and the closest friendly solar is a 100k cruise away. It doesn't matter though, until the mining devs agree that the concept is good and should be implemented (and it should because of the points you brought up) rather than every faction having its own mining field resulting in next to no interaction in the fields, it's pointless to discuss anything else.
People say "why bother, there are no more pirates anymore", but it's been proven time and time again that if you make activity areas they will come. A recent example I can think of is the Christmas event where commodities were buffed for all 4 house planets. I remember you couldn't do a route without meeting at least 1 pirate, sometimes 2 or more. It really reminded me of the 200 players days and the California-NY gate.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Sombs - 08-07-2017
Have you considered that some people don't want to meet others while mining? Forcing them to meet is like removing cloaks: You'll end up disgusting players by doing Verschlimmbesserungen. What you also get is monopolization of ressources. King of the hill-feeling. You already have half of the community being annoyed by shadow-/counterloggers, and I remember you being one of the loudest people to complain about NC raiding IMG in the Taus. You think this kind of forced interaction areas will make it better?
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Traxit - 08-07-2017
(08-07-2017, 09:50 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Have you considered that some people don't want to meet others while mining? Forcing them to meet is like removing cloaks: You'll end up disgusting players by doing Verschlimmbesserungen. What you also get is monopolization of ressources. King of the hill-feeling. You already have half of the community being annoyed by shadow-/counterloggers, and I remember you being one of the loudest people to complain about NC raiding IMG in the Taus. You think this kind of forced interaction areas will make it better?
Tough luck, you're mining valuable ore that you can make money from, where's the risk if no one is going to bother you? Also, cloaks are bad, and should've never been implemented into the game.
I agree with the centralization idea, but it does need to be heavily tweaked from your suggestions Jack.
PS: I'm not sure if your post is written in a sarcastic tone, Sombra.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Jack_Henderson - 08-07-2017
@Wesker: Can also be O5, I do no care much how it is called. Needs to be an Omega system that can be reached from Rheinland's O7 and Bretonia's O3 easily. Furthermore, jumpholes can be adjusted.
@Antonio: As I wrote, it is not yet balanced. But I do not think Houses need ores inside. Actually, most infocards stress that Houses have mined them out. Having ore located in Borderworlds between Houses and rivalling powers is actually a lot better for gameplay and also not unrealistic when your close and safe ressources are dying out (cf. Omegas). As for Samura, give them a base somewhere behind the JH (25k to their ore), so that they can have a fair chance like everybody else.
@"Sombra Hookier": Sorry, half of the community is only annoyed by "interaction" because Disco has become very very soft. When you meet a pirate once in 3 weeks, it's already really much and it is also dramatic and it was so unfair and and and. The mentality would change, if it was normal to meet unlawfuls. Remember California, NY gate in the Dublin Gold days? You were always pirated there. And everybody knew it. And people still flew Gold. Tau 23, you logged, you got yourself a fight. Yes, sometimes it was annoying. But: there was action. You do not always like the action you get, but sorry to be blunt: at the state of Disco now, any action is better than the boredome of nothing-ever-happening.
@Traxit: Yes, as I wrote: It is radical on purpose to show a direction and how it could be achieved. Tweaking of course is necessary. I fully agree.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Backo - 08-07-2017
I like how you pulled ore away from Rheinland's area and closer to IMG's unquestioned domain of O-3. Subtle.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Jack_Henderson - 08-07-2017
(08-07-2017, 10:06 PM)Bloodl1ke Wrote: I like how you pulled ore away from Rheinland's area and closer to IMG's unquestioned domain of O-3. Subtle.
Read the OP again:
Quote:"Rheinland's O7 needs to have a JH to it. Just saw that O7 does not connect to O9 any more... it should, in my draft."
2nd post:
Quote:"Needs to be an Omega system that can be reached from Rheinland's O7 and Bretonia's O3 easily." => meaning: 1 JH.
Plus, if you think "Uhh! Jack is just trying to get an advantage", think again: IMG bases are a lot further away from O9 access than DHC, BMM, and (when O7 links to O9 that it does not do now, it seems), also Kruger is closer to the O9 hole.
So... this is clearly not a thing I do to push IMG. I even pulled the ore from O47 into the mess of O9 Action Center.
So... please refrain from trying to discredit the idea that way.
It would however be interesting to see what you as an OC player say about grouping OC and Sair ore in 1 place.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Toris (Old Account) - 08-07-2017
I support the idea. Miners and Pirates need to meet in the fields as well, because where are the treasures - there are hyenas ready to extract some parts of it.
Bring it on. Break the seal of total stagnation and boredom.
RE: Radical Reduction of Mining Systems => Make Players Meet! = Necessary Centralisation! - Antonio - 08-07-2017
There's a big difference between cloaks and mining - one is a moneysink while other is the biggest and most consistent source of money makin on the server (excluding buffed route events). Creating a system where mining is without risk is very bad. Mining, as the best money source, should have as much risk involved as possible and not the other way around. It's already pretty close to no risk with the amount of fields in the game, and it's so easy to avoid pirates while hauling mined cargo (flying offplane, using an alternate route, cloaks, logging off, hiring an escort), that there's no reason to encourage it further. Discovery economy is a mess already with how easy it is to make money.
Also, mining is inherently much less punishing than trading because you can always re-mine any cargo a pirate asks for, and the monetary demands will be lower because it's the beginning of the route, while a transport midway or near the end of the route would not only have to pay more, but also if he's forced to drop cargo he can't replenish it easily.