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+--- Thread: Traders and Fair Play (/showthread.php?tid=23156)
Traders and Fair Play - Eppy - 07-11-2009
The last time I made a thread like this, it was in Flood. It was a joke, and I thought it was pretty funny (my suspicions are confirmed! I'M NOT CRAZY! I'M NOT CRAZY! AAAAAAAAAAAA-)
Not anymore. Now I'm not joking.
Why is it that it's considered in such horrible taste to mount a pair of missiles on a Gunboat and rip lone bombers a new one?
Why is it that it's considered in such horrible taste to bring a Liberty Battlecruiser upon a lone Rogue Gunboat or Bomber camping a tradelane?
Why, then, is it that it's not considered in such horrible taste to pirate a trader twice in the same system, demand more than his run makes, and, his entire hold, and barely speak to him in the process except to tell him to shut up and pay, and then camp the tradelanes on his or her way back, pirate him again, thus teaching him that he's going to have to fly across a 120K system and do so by flying a good 20 or 30 klicks above the plane, thus slowing him down enormously and make it long and exasperating for him to do what he's supposed to do?*
In all of these situations one player is basically being denied his ability to play. The bomber has been ganked; especially if it's a character native to a core system he can't really play his character for four hours. The trader, on the other hand, is also, in his own way, been placed in a situation where it is difficult to expediently accomplish his objectives and just been taken out of a large sum of money. He can't trade at anything near max efficiency because he can't use the trade lanes, which add something awful onto his flight time. Traders exist to make money. When a trader isn't making any money and he's trying quite hard to do so, he is, in all likelihood, not enjoying this game. Just like the pirate doesn't enjoy getting ganked by the missileboat and the Battlecruiser, the trader does not enjoy getting ganked repeatedly and denied the ability to make a significant profit.
So, what am I saying?
Fair Play Goes Both Ways.
Quite frankly, I am sick and tired of being labeled some kind of cattle. I did not choose to RP a cattle. I as a trader do not exist to make money for other people, I as a trader exist to make money for myself and the corporation I'm working for (which, in most cases, happens to be oneself). I understand that the pirates need to make money too, but you know what? It doesn't cost two million to repair and load CMs/regens on a Battleship, much less a Gunboat or Bomber (unless your SNAC gets flakked off or something, which isn't particularly likely), and you don't need to dip your damn hand in the cookie jar every time it passes you by, because you're eating cookies faster than Momma can bake them. Maybe a Zoner Guard Whale can make those kinds of cookies, enough to still make some profit, but you know what? I'm not a Zoner Guard whale. I'm sticking to my RP, and you know what it feels like? I'm being punished for it, by being denied much of all of the profit I've worked for. If I can't engage your bomber in a missileboat or my Outcast Dreadnought, you know what? You can do me a similar favor and not eat Momma out of house and home. I respect pirates. Can you return my favor and respect traders?
[/rant]
*Yes, that situation I described has happened to me multiple times.
Traders and Fair Play - johnpeter - 07-11-2009
I agree with this. It is not nice to demand all a trader's cargo, and when your hold can't fit it all, and then destroy it. However it's the same as ganking. It's not against the rules, even though it's unfair. I really think all this does is makes more "just kill me, it's cheaper" traders.
Traders and Fair Play - JovialKnight - 07-11-2009
I agree with it, but I don't see any way that it will change anytime soon. So I suck it up, and carry on regardless.
The fact I don't ever use the trade lanes from Riverton station in cali through to NY should raise an eyebrow or two, considering my trader is a corp trader, and that he is lawful. The fact that the only way to avoid the pirates is to adopt the routine of a smuggler is quite frankly wrong.
However, whenever this is brought up, it's yelled down and claimed to be exageration. So I gave up trying.
Traders and Fair Play - Benjamin - 07-11-2009
Does every single one of your threads/posts about this happen because you got pirated in California? because it sounds like it. Maybe just...don't go to california?
Traders and Fair Play - Athenian - 07-11-2009
I don't agree with the idea that somehow using two missiles on a GB against a lone bomber is unfair. In the long term you will pay for sacrificing one type of turret for another. Nor do I agree that bringing a large ship to bear on a smaller one is necessarily always wrong. It depends on the circumstances.
I think many people would enjoy this game one hundred times more if they stopped chasing after this elusive idea of "fairplay" - it's different for everyone. A role-playing game should be a form of escapism. When it becomes a sand-box, where nothing is ever risked or sacrificed, then it becomes a pointless game to play, and we may as well go back to playing single player spaceship games. I can make heaps of money in X3 but I still play Disocvery, because it feels more real. I value every credit all the more because I know that I can build towards something in the long term and every single credit has cost me time.
If you play a trader solely to make money, then making other trader characters helps. Yes, it's metagaming, but if money is what you need to develop a character through the acquisition of a ship, then I say go for it. Otherwise, being a trader and getting robbed...well the more realistic a robbery is, the better. If you've been robbed in real-life, then you know what I'm talking about. It is a horrible experience that leaves one with an impotent rage and feeling violated. It happened to me plenty when I started on the server. I still get robbed occasionally. I prefer it when it feels more life-like. I prefer when this feels like a role-playing game, where the odds are stacked unevenly and things aren't fair, because life isn't fair. That is one of the best things about it.
Traders and Fair Play - Guest - 07-11-2009
HALT
ILL GIVE YOU TWO MILLION OR DIE!
' Wrote:Does every single one of your threads/posts about this happen because you got pirated in California? because it sounds like it. Maybe just...don't go to california?
If this really pisses people off ill have a talk about the amount of cash that is being pirated.
Traders and Fair Play - FraserTE - 07-11-2009
' Wrote:HALT
ILL GIVE YOU TWO MILLION OR DIE!
If this really pisses people off ill have a talk about the amount of cash that is being pirated.
Lol thats sounds strangly familur
Eppy i almost had you earlier but you escaped because i was trolling forums...
i r get uz next time but i only pirate for 1 million at a time.
Traders and Fair Play - Eppy - 07-11-2009
' Wrote:Does every single one of your threads/posts about this happen because you got pirated in California? because it sounds like it. Maybe just...don't go to california?
Maybe you don't get it.
I fly a liner.
There are two runs for a Liner. One of them is a back and forth (and hence probably metagaming, since Xoria has something against back and forths). The other goes through California.
So, I guess what I'm saying is STFU, to be blunt. I don't care if I get pirated in California. What I do care about is that when I go through California is that I get pirated EVERY SINGLE TIME, sometimes more than once, OR I have to fly about 200K (yes, it gets to be about that, going above the plane and all). Either way, I'm not making money, and if it's somehow a liner's fault for having to go through California then there's a problem with something, and it's not the liner.
Moreover, your attitude disgusts me.:)
I RP my trader because it was my first actual character, I've developed it quite a bit and I'm very fond of it. I also think that I should be able to make money while trading on that character. In the end, that's what Traders are for. I don't have a problem making less, but I'm making a LOT less than I should be, even in a ship that naturally makes considerably less than your average Zoner Guard Whale.
Oh, and for the record I think Fair Play is a useless attempt to quantify decency, but since the community seems to speak that language I figured it was the best way to get my message across.
Quote: Lol thats sounds strangly familur
Eppy i almost had you earlier but you escaped because i was trolling forums...
i r get uz next time but i only pirate for 1 million at a time.
Are you sure? I haven't been on my trader in two days.
Traders and Fair Play - FraserTE - 07-11-2009
Ya they need to add new routes but eppy just because ure in a liner dont mean u cant take the jump holes
Back when i use to lawful trade i still rarly used lanes.
Traders and Fair Play - Benjamin - 07-11-2009
' Wrote:Maybe you don't get it.
I fly a liner.
There are two runs for a Liner. One of them is a back and forth (and hence probably metagaming, since Xoria has something against back and forths). The other goes through California.
So, I guess what I'm saying is STFU, to be blunt. I don't care if I get pirated in California. What I do care about is that when I go through California is that I get pirated EVERY SINGLE TIME, sometimes more than once, OR I have to fly about 200K (yes, it gets to be about that, going above the plane and all). Either way, I'm not making money, and if it's somehow a liner's fault for having to go through California then there's a problem with something, and it's not the liner.
Moreover, your attitude disgusts me.:)
I don't know which of the two runs out of the several that exist are the only two that exist according to you?
I fly a liner too. No jumpholes. Rarely go through California. And when I do, I have literally never been pirated.
I get it, I just think you're whining.